Re: Bush economy strikes California

**ziggy** · by **ziggy** on Fri Aug 15, 2008 4:43 pm

Not to current jobs, at least not initially. To potential jobs required to build plants.

Looking at it that way, not allowing more prostitution costs jobs- jobs for prostuitutes and jobs building whorehouses. Not allowing more gambling costs jobs. Not allowing the mafia to operate more openly without law enforcement intevention costs jobs. There are certain things that we decide as a matter of public policy that are not allowed even though allowing them would create jobs.

West Virginia exports 70 percent of the electricity it generates. Just as we set limits on gambling, we need to set limits on the mining and burning of coal and the proliferation of power transmission lines.

The Daily Mail has it right.

Those who want wind power should be under some pressure to build turbines in their back yards, too.

http://www.dailymail.com/Opinion/Editorials/200808150200

That applies to fossil fuel power plants, too.

**ziggy** · by **ziggy** on Fri Aug 15, 2008 4:49 pm

How so Frank? Because that's not what I've read. I get that it is caused by the equipment installed to reduce nitrogen oxide emissions.

And the cause of nitrogen oxide emmissions is the burning of coal. It is not enough to substitute one problem with still another new problem- nor to blame the new problem on the "cure" for the old problem.

Both nitrogen oxide emmissions and blue haze are caused by the same action- the burning of coal.

Aaron · by Aaron on Fri Aug 15, 2008 6:14 pm

Perhaps if you feel so strongly about the burning of coal you should stop using it and it's end product Frank!!!

Aaron · by Aaron on Fri Aug 15, 2008 6:15 pm

And the haze is caused by the equipmented mandated by the DEP regardless of your faulty logic.

shermangeneral · by shermangeneral on Fri Aug 15, 2008 6:30 pm

rEMEMBER WHEN rEAGAN SAID TREES WERE A MAJOR SOURCE OF POLLUTION?

SFCraig · by SFCraig on Fri Aug 15, 2008 7:08 pm

shermangeneral wrote:rEMEMBER WHEN rEAGAN SAID TREES WERE A MAJOR SOURCE OF POLLUTION?

Trees create more smog than humans. The "Great Communicator"...of horseshit!

**ziggy** · by **ziggy** on Fri Aug 15, 2008 8:34 pm

Perhaps if you feel so strongly about the burning of coal you should stop using it and it's end product Frank!!!

I have done more- successfully so- in the past 8 or 9 years to help replace coal with wind power in West Virginia than you have. There are now approximately 200 MWs of generating capacity of wind powered electrical energy being put on the West Virginia section of tha PJM operated electrical power grid in West Virginia. And there are a couple hundred or so MWs of hydro-power electricity generating capacity in West Virginia. One hydro-power generating facility, at Racine Ohio, is perhaps no more than about 10 miles from here- closer than the closest coal power plant. Once those electrons are on the grid, NO ONE can tell one electron from another. So I challenge you to show us that the electrons I use are not generated by hydro-power or wind power instead of by coal.

Like it or not, the power sources for the electricity we use are becoming more and more diversified.

Aaron · by Aaron on Sat Aug 16, 2008 5:54 am

Does your arm hurt Frank from patting yourself on the back so much?

And once again, your logic is faulty. AEP runs some hydro power stations but the bulk of their electricity (more then 95%) comes from buring coal. Like it or not, coal is what turns your light, as well as your computer on.

Cheers.

**ziggy** · by **ziggy** on Sat Aug 16, 2008 8:25 am

You can hate windpower all you like. But it's coming, it is here, and there will be more of it. Get use to it.

Aaron · by Aaron on Sat Aug 16, 2008 9:12 am

I don't hate wind Frank. In fact, I believe we should use more of it, as much as humanly possible. I know that with the ingenuity of entrepreneur’s backed by American capitalism, we will sooner rather then later find a way to make wind more stable and will also find a manner in which to store the energy.

And unlike you and some of your conservation friends that have done everything possible to delay and deter Ned Power, I hope to see it come online just as the Mountaineer Wind farm did on Backbone Mountain in Tucker, County.

I honestly don't understand how you guys can say stuff like...
"I'm not sure that wind turbines in this region will significantly reduce the outcome of global climate change or actually have any role," Mr. Boone said. "The very limited benefit doesn't justify the risk of wiping out a lot of interior forest habitat."

...I just don't think that way. If anything, unlike you and Danny, I believe these turbines, as seen here on Backbone Mountain...

enhance the beauty of our 'interior forest habitat' and that once construction is completed, nature will adapt to the turbines.

Cheers

Very Happy

**ziggy** · by **ziggy** on Sat Aug 16, 2008 11:00 am

And unlike you and some of your conservation friends that have done everything possible to delay and deter Ned Power, I hope to see it come online just as the Mountaineer Wind farm did on Backbone Mountain in Tucker, County.

Newsflash, guy: (1) Nedpower has been on line for about 8 months already- since late 2007 (2) Ask NedPower's lead development person, Jerome Nissan, if I have done anything to delay that project. BTW, his e-mail address is Jerome Niessen E-mail Address(es): hniessen@nedpower.com . He will tell you that I have been a pain in the ass to the wind power obstructionists- and a champion for candor and cooperation between that industry and conservation groups. Ask NedPower's permit application attorney, Chris Callas (E-mail Address(es): CCALLAS@jacksonkelly.com) if I did anything to delay the NedPower project.

Once again, you simply do not know what you are talking about.

**ziggy** · by **ziggy** on Sat Aug 16, 2008 11:13 am

I honestly don't understand how you guys can say stuff like...
"I'm not sure that wind turbines in this region will significantly reduce the outcome of global climate change or actually have any role," Mr. Boone said. "The very limited benefit doesn't justify the risk of wiping out a lot of interior forest habitat." ...I just don't think that way. If anything, unlike you and Danny, I believe these turbines, as seen here on Backbone Mountain... "

Dan Boone is an arrogant jackass- and should be an embarrassment to any self-respecting conservationist. And when I told him so about 6 years ago, he stopped communicating with me. Good riddance.

If he is the best you can come up with, you ain't got nothin'.

Since I don't hold you responsible for Don Blankenship's asininity, why would you hold me responsible for Dan Boone's asininity?

Aaron · by Aaron on Sat Aug 16, 2008 11:32 am

ziggy wrote:
Once again, you simply do not know what you are talking about.

The name's Aaron Frank, not guy. Try to remember that if you can please!!!!!!!!!!

And I guess I don't know what I'm talking about in the same manner you don't when you stated I hate wind.

Don't make assumptions about me and I won't make them about you, comprenda !!!

And I'm telling you Frank, you're going to throw your shoulder out of socket if you keep patting yourself on the back like that.

**ziggy** · by **ziggy** on Sat Aug 16, 2008 12:14 pm

Don't make assumptions about me and I won't make them about you, comprenda !!!

OK. That is a fair suggestion.

I will endeavor to comply with it.

Aaron · by Aaron on Sat Aug 16, 2008 1:22 pm

If NedPower is online, why can't I find anything about it online of find images of the 200 wind turbines? All I'm seeing is stuff like this...

For Immediate Release: May 8, 2008

Contact: Judy Rodd, Friends of Blackwater, 304-345-7663

Lawsuit to be filed to Protect Wildlife from NedPower Industrial Wind Project near Dolly Sods Wilderness
Chas, WV. Today eleven citizens groups filed a Sixty Day Notice of Intent to Sue NedPower Mt Storm and its corporate owners Dominion Resources, and Shell Wind Energy for violations of the Endangered Species Act involving the “takes” of the West Virginia northern flying squirrel, the Indiana bat, and the Virginia big-eared bat. The letter, sent to the Fish and Wildlife Service, NedPower and the West Virginia Public Service Commission, also raises concerns about impacts to bald and golden eagles and migrating birds protected under the Migratory Bird Treaty Act and the Bald and Golden Eagle Protection Acts.

The groups are demanding that the industrial wind corporation apply for an incidental take permit and modify or stop construction of this project before irreparable harm is done to West Virginia’s natural heritage. “NedPower has ignored the huge number of birds and bats that will be killed each year by the project, ignored the golden eagles that will be decapitated as they try to return to their winter homes near Mt. Storm Lake, and ignored threats to bald eagles that catch fish at the Lake” said Judy Rodd of Friends of Blackwater. “NedPower is clearing acres of land in endangered flying squirrel habitat just a few miles north of the Dolly Sods Wilderness area. We believe that this project is in violation of federal law.”

Friends of Blackwater, Friends of the Allegheny Front, Friends of the Appalachian Highlands, Friends of Backbone Mountain, Friends of Beautiful Pendleton County, Highlanders for Responsible Development, Laurel Mountain Preservation Association, the Maryland Alliance for Greenway Improvement and Conservation, the Maryland Conservation Council, Mountain Communities for Responsible Energy, and Stewards of the Potomac Highlands are challenging Ned power’s claim that the project will have no impact on these rare species.
They point out that researchers estimate that 4,000 bats were killed in one year at the Mountaineer Wind Project less than 14 miles away. That project operates 44 turbines while NedPower in Grant County is certified to build 200 turbines that could kill more than 20,000 bats annually.

source

Do you have a link Frank?

.