Is the VSC Commission a bunch of Greenies?

Perhaps you should take a drive down the coal highway and not just accept Frank's propaganda hook, line and sinker.

And you didn't answer the question. Should the school be K-5 as other WV elementary schools are or should Massey be forced to build a new school housing K-12 as CRMW wants?

SamCogar wrote:

ziggy wrote:Why would I need to "CYA"? Some of us been suing the corrupt authorities who have "the ultimate responsibility and legal authority to regulate and control mining operations in West Virginia" for years- the federal and state surface mining regulatory agencies.

Ziggy, I have been reading the Charleston newspapers for the past 25 years .... and an active Member of these Forums (inclusive) for nigh onto 10 years, ..... and I do not remember ever reading a reference to anyone of said group "SUING CORRUPT AUTHORITIES or the AGENCIES there of for ANYTHING.

So Zig, iffen you and yours have "been suing them for years", .... you shouldn't have a problem citing a few REFERENCES to said Law suites, ..... RIGHT..

Sam, if you've been doin' all that readin', then you could not have missed this:

http://www.sundaygazettemail.com/News/Mining+the+Mountains/200706140003

Or this:

http://wvgazette.com/News/Mining+the+Mountains/200710120026

Or you could Google Bragg vs. Robertson.

Or you could Google OVEC v. Corps of Engineers.

Or you could Google West Virginia Highlands Conservancy v. Norton.

Those are just a couple of the biggie West Virginia lawsuits by citizens and citizen groups against government employees and agencies this decade. There have been many other similar lawsuits- some big, some small, some successful, and some not successful over the past forty or so years.

Sam, citizens and citizen groups have been suing government officials and regulatory agencies for decades. But none of the groups that I work with have ever sued a coal company- at least not in the past 20 years or so, if ever.

So again, as usual Sam, you just do not know what you are talking about.

Aaron wrote:Perhaps you should take a drive down the coal highway and not just accept Frank's propaganda hook, line and sinker.

And you didn't answer the question. Should the school be K-5 as other WV elementary schools are or should Massey be forced to build a new school housing K-12 as CRMW wants?

Aaron,

I have traveled a large part of WV. It's funny the places I haven't found my way to.....like nearby Huntington. Yet I have traveled through Fayette, Clay, Greenbrier, Upshur, Braxton, Webster, Nicholas, Ohio, Jackson, Kanawha, and who knows how many other counties in this state. A whole bunch, I assure you. As recently as Friday I was in Fayette County touring the Whipple Company Store with other homeschoolers.

Coal mining is not a part of my family's history. On my mom's side I had ancestors who worked in the whaling, fishing, textile, and jewelry industry. There are no coal mines in southern New England, to my knowledge anyway. Mining was a way of life for much of my husband's family. His father worked in the mines as a young man. His paternal grandfather worked in the mines until crippled in a mining accident. His uncle retired from mining within the past 5 years. Coal mining goes back generations in his family and some of his cousins are miners today.

I have yet to have any of them tell me they favor strip mining, or MTR. Each year they have a family reunion. The past couple of years it's been held in some park out in Upshur County. I hope to go. I'll make sure I ask those I haven't had conversations about mining with just how they feel about these practices.

I'm not sure how large a school Massey should be required to fund. It seems to me they should fund a new school that meets the requirements of the community. They have created all sorts of problems and have made quite clear their intentions to continue their efforts to build another silo and increase traffic and sludge and dust right by that school.

All of those students who attended that school in years past have had to suffer with poor air quality and the dangers associated with the damn and the sludge and everything else associated with coal operations in the immediate vicinity. The least the coal company could do is provide them with a safe, state of the art school to make up for a portion of the damage suffered by the youngsters of that area, including those who have already endured 6 years in the unhealthy environment at Marsh Fork Elementary.

ziggy wrote:Here is the picture I posted last year- complete with the caption, just as I told you last week. I was incorrect only in that it does not show the time of day the photograph was taken.

I am familiar with the scene. The photo was taken from the roadside of the State Rt., in front of the school house. The coal tipple is not shown. But it would be to the left just off the left side of the photograph. The camera is pointed approximately toward the north-northwest. The Coal River is on the back side of the school house- between the schoolhouse and the hill you see behind the schoolhouse. The Coal River at that point runs almost due north- which is from left to right, looking at the photograph. The sun is obviously to the left, not in the picture- but opposite the shadows cast by the trees on the left edge of the picture.

http://www.crmw.net/photo_detail.php?id=61

OH FOR GODS SAKE ........ Ziggy, .......... GIVE IT UP.

You are only adding insult to you un-creditability ...... or your duffus ignorance.

The coal tipple ... it would be to the left just off the left side of the photograph.

The sun is obviously to the left, not in the picture- but opposite the shadows cast by the trees on the left edge of the picture.

The camera is pointed ...toward the north-northwest.

The Coal River is ... between the schoolhouse and the hill

The Coal River ... runs almost due north- which is from left to right,

.

Stephanie wrote:

Aaron wrote:Perhaps you should take a drive down the coal highway and not just accept Frank's propaganda hook, line and sinker.

And you didn't answer the question. Should the school be K-5 as other WV elementary schools are or should Massey be forced to build a new school housing K-12 as CRMW wants?

Aaron,

I have traveled a large part of WV. It's funny the places I haven't found my way to.....like nearby Huntington. Yet I have traveled through Fayette, Clay, Greenbrier, Upshur, Braxton, Webster, Nicholas, Ohio, Jackson, Kanawha, and who knows how many other counties in this state. A whole bunch, I assure you. As recently as Friday I was in Fayette County touring the Whipple Company Store with other homeschoolers.

Coal mining is not a part of my family's history. On my mom's side I had ancestors who worked in the whaling, fishing, textile, and jewelry industry. There are no coal mines in southern New England, to my knowledge anyway. Mining was a way of life for much of my husband's family. His father worked in the mines as a young man. His paternal grandfather worked in the mines until crippled in a mining accident. His uncle retired from mining within the past 5 years. Coal mining goes back generations in his family and some of his cousins are miners today.

I have yet to have any of them tell me they favor strip mining, or MTR. Each year they have a family reunion. The past couple of years it's been held in some park out in Upshur County. I hope to go. I'll make sure I ask those I haven't had conversations about mining with just how they feel about these practices.

I'm not sure how large a school Massey should be required to fund. It seems to me they should fund a new school that meets the requirements of the community. They have created all sorts of problems and have made quite clear their intentions to continue their efforts to build another silo and increase traffic and sludge and dust right by that school.

All of those students who attended that school in years past have had to suffer with poor air quality and the dangers associated with the damn and the sludge and everything else associated with coal operations in the immediate vicinity. The least the coal company could do is provide them with a safe, state of the art school to make up for a portion of the damage suffered by the youngsters of that area, including those who have already endured 6 years in the unhealthy environment at Marsh Fork Elementary.

What Massey, along with other coal companies, is create high paying jobs that have sustained the communities. Take coal mining out of that area and unemployment will hit 25 to 30%, if not higher. If it's not that high, it will be because the population will dwindle to nothing. Once again, I would suggest you travel down there.

And when you do, keep in mind that for many of the residents have an agenda other then Franks of stopping mining. This is about getting their high school back for many residents. Liberty High School was constructed in 1976 as a consolidation of Trapp High School, Clear Fork High School and Marsh Fork High School. Clear Fork fought until 1993. Marsh Fork didn't succomb until 2003. Both are gone and residents still want their schools back.

Misty after a rain



Misty in the morning

Sam, why is that "misty after a rain" mist brown?

Who else finds Aaron's suggestion that a car wheel spun up all that dust while at the same time Sam insists it's "after a rain" mist hilarious? A car spins up all that dust from a mudhole?

If you guys are gonna tag team me, you need to get your signals straight.

Do you have proof that the dust is in excess of DEP's method 9 or method 21 testing Frank?

Do you even know what method 9 or method 21 testing is Frank?

Don't you think it's kind of sad that you guys claim that all you want if for the school children to "not to have to endure these conditions" but in reality, you'er using this situation to achieve your agendas, which for you is to completely shut down mining and for others it is for Massey to build them a new high school so they can go watch Friday night football games in Naoma instead of Glen Daniel?

ziggy wrote:Sam, why is that "misty after a rain" mist brown?

Who else finds Aaron's suggestion that a car wheel spun up all that dust while at the same time Sam insists it's "after a rain" mist hilarious? A car spins up all that dust from a mudhole?

If you guys are gonna tag team me, you need to get your signals straight.

Well Zigster, iffen you were ever an ole "country boy" as you claim you were, ...... a living n' growing up along that ....... country road that those coal operators bulldozed the hell out of a tearing your father's fences down, etc., etc. ........ then you would damn well know that no one ever installed "dust lights" on their vehicles so they could see to drive. Now "fog lights", .... YES, ..... but not "dust lights".

And the reason being, ya can't see through a "cloud of dust" like ya can mist or fog because ...... dust blocks the Sunlight or car lights ....... but mist or fog refracts and reflects the Sunlight or car lights. And since I'm sure you have no frigging idea what the word "refract" means, ...... look it up before ya start mouthing.

GEEEZE, Zigster, I don't know what your problem is ......... but even the dumbest of females that ever traveled much on a "dusty road" knows ya can't see shidt when there is lots of dust in the air.

So Zigster, ...... why is it you don't know that?

Here Zig, ...... see what you were claiming you seen for years n' years a growing up



Tell us Ziggy, ....... is that car that is following that pickup a Ford or a Chevy?



.

Stephanie wrote:Ziggy,

I find it impossible to believe environmentalists did not play a major role in this latest outrage.

If the proposed project were to have been located in Virginia, you can bet that the VCC would have approved the rate change. As Sherm said, it is about the money- about who is to pay for the plant. Virginia did not veto building the plant. It only dis-allowed its costs to be paid by Virginia's electricity ratepayers.

As always, follow the money.

ziggy wrote:
As always, follow the money.

Money and motive tells the story of everything, doesn't it Frank!!!

ziggy wrote:
As always, follow the money.

Money and motive tells the story of everything, doesn't it Frank!!!

Indeed it does. That is the American way.

ziggy wrote:

ziggy wrote:
As always, follow the money.

Money and motive tells the story of everything, doesn't it Frank!!!

Indeed it does. That is the American way.

And I'm fairly certain that we've shown what the motive is.

Then if not money, what do think the "motive" of the VCC was / is?

Actually when I made my statement about underlying motive, I was referring to the new high school members of the CRMW desire.

As for the VCC, I'm not sure. I mean, if they receive any power from those plants, then I can hardly see how why they would reject the rate. After all, that one plant is going to replace 2 plants, greatly reduce the amount of carbon emmissions and after construction provide electricity, minus feedstock pricing, at a lower cost.

I would assume that either they aren't recieving any power from the plants that will be replaced or the new plant or they want to deal a blow to AEP. Perhaps a rival power company is looking to expand their territory and you know how easily those state employees are paid off as you've stated many times that is the reason IMSH inspectors don't do their job.