Re: Now if only WV's government would acknowledge same

by **Stephanie** on Mon May 05, 2008 8:36 pm

I'd have to research what the owners of that company did. I don't know if they took their ball, and whatever money they had, and went home, or if they opened up shop somewhere else. I think the former. The facility in Centerdale, a neighbor to my hometown, remained vacant and unsold last I heard.

by SamCogar on Tue May 06, 2008 3:05 am

ziggy wrote:And every employer has that option. No employer has to submit to the union.

Except the School Boards.

The Teacher's Unions go to the Legislature to get what they want ........ and the School Boards have to comply (submit).

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by SamCogar on Tue May 06, 2008 3:43 am

Stephanie wrote:I'd have to research what the owners of that company did. I don't know if they took their ball, and whatever money they had, and went home, or if they opened up shop somewhere else. I think the former. The facility in Centerdale, a neighbor to my hometown, remained vacant and unsold last I heard.

Not hardly.

The Brown and Sharpe name is an icon in the machine tool industry. I've been familiar with their name ever since I started working in engineering and manufacturing. Thus, I looked it up, to wit:

Brown & Sharpe is today a division of Hexagon Metrology, Inc., a multinational corporation focused mainly on metrological tools and technology. During the 19th and 20th centuries, Brown & Sharpe was one of the most well-known and influential firms in the machine tool industry. Its influence throughout mechanical engineering was such that its name is often synonymous with certain industrial standards that it established, including: .......

"[The company that would become Brown & Sharpe] was founded in 1833 [in Providence, Rhode Island] by David Brown and his son Joseph R. Brown. For nearly twenty years its business comprised the making and repairing of clocks, watches and mathematical instruments, in ........

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_&_Sharpe

If they closed their doors in RI after 150 years ...... I imagine it was devastating to the economy.

Currently, they operate two large facilities in Ohio, to wit:

http://www.auto-met.com/aboutus.htm

Very Happy

by TerryRC on Tue May 06, 2008 3:48 am

We used to use a Brown and Sharpe dividing head when I worked in my dad's tool & die shop.

by SamCogar on Tue May 06, 2008 4:00 am

ziggy wrote:Worhers and management both know they when a business is started, or when one takes a job, that there are risks.

For the workers there is the risk that the job will not be worth the hassle, the costs of getting to work and back home, the money that could have been made by working elsewhere, and that a strike could be fatally crippling to the company.

For management there is the risk that the profit on the gross profit will not allow payment of the bills, much less a net profit, that labor will organize and demand increased wages, and / or that a strike could be fatally crippling to the company.

Ziggy, you should print out a copy of your above, ..... and next week when Hillary and Obama come to town electioneering "for votes", ..... whichever one you want to win ..... just slip them that printed copy and tell them ...... "Here is some good stuff that will get yu lots of votes here in the hills."

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by **ziggy** on Wed May 07, 2008 4:08 pm

SamCogar wrote:
ziggy wrote:Worhers and management both know they when a business is started, or when one takes a job, that there are risks.

For the workers there is the risk that the job will not be worth the hassle, the costs of getting to work and back home, the money that could have been made by working elsewhere, and that a strike could be fatally crippling to the company.

For management there is the risk that the profit on the gross profit will not allow payment of the bills, much less a net profit, that labor will organize and demand increased wages, and / or that a strike could be fatally crippling to the company.

Ziggy, you should print out a copy of your above, ..... and next week when Hillary and Obama come to town electioneering "for votes", ..... whichever one you want to win ..... just slip them that printed copy and tell them ...... "Here is some good stuff that will get yu lots of votes here in the hills."

.

by Cato on Thu May 08, 2008 5:04 pm

SamCogar wrote: [Management NEVER willing gives into the demands of the Unions as many concessions as they unwillingly are forced into conceeding to the Union's demands.

Bull Cookies!!!!!!!!

by Cato on Thu May 08, 2008 5:13 pm

Aaron wrote:
ziggy wrote:Cato and I don't agree on very much, usually. But this time Cato is "right on".

Now Aaron can say that I'm dumb as a box of rocks, too. But, as Cato says, that certainly doesn't make it so. So, as the little man says, bring 'em on.

So you agree with Cato that the only thing the union ever got was what management wanted them to have. If that's the case, why was there ever a union?

As usual you speak without much understanding. What managemant wants to give and is willing to give is on and two different things. For example managment want to give a benefit package without healthcare, but during the bargaining process with unions is willing to give healthcare. However, in the process management may want concessions also. There in is the issue. Management is only going to conceede what it can afford. If it goes beyond that point, which the auto industry did, then they are going to have difficulties.

by Aaron on Thu May 08, 2008 7:26 pm

I think the problem Cato is that you base all unions on your wifes membership in whichever teachers union she belongs to and that is what is clouding your judgement.

I think maybe you should do a little reading and research and you might get a clear understanding of the Labor movement,. Start here to get some idea of different types of labor strikes and the try looking for some other sites. If you can't find any let me know and I'll see if I can find them for you.

by Cato on Fri May 09, 2008 7:00 pm

Aaron wrote:I think the problem Cato is that you base all unions on your wifes membership in whichever teachers union she belongs to and that is what is clouding your judgement.

I think maybe you should do a little reading and research and you might get a clear understanding of the Labor movement,. Start here to get some idea of different types of labor strikes and the try looking for some other sites. If you can't find any let me know and I'll see if I can find them for you.

Nope, My father was a member of the Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers. My wife is WVEA. I was a supervisor in a plant that was represented by the Carpenters and Jointers Union. I know well about and about lockouts. The union has the option of striking and management has the option of the lockout or closure. It still comes down to unions get what management is willing to concede. The fact is that just as unions can use a job actions to get what they want, management can use the lockout or plant closure to get what they want. If management is stupid enough to concede more thant hey can afford, then they close and someone else replaces them. Maybe not in the same location or with the same people, but they are ultimately replaced. We see that happening int he automotive industry.

As I said, as a stockholder in a company, which management conceded more than it could afford, I won't look at the union, I'd terminate the management. Afterall, they are my representative and are responsible for looking after my financial wellbeing. If they concede more than they can affard, they are failures and need to be removed. I'm beginning to think you are one of those types of managers that thinks they are infalible and goes about blaming their mistakes on everyone instead of going to the root of the problem, themselves.

by Aaron on Fri May 09, 2008 7:17 pm

Unions only get what mangement is willing to give them. That has always been the case and always will be the case.

I don't care how familar you are with unions today. My point is, unions today are merely a shade of what they were 50 years ago, when unions actually represented the working man and what was best for them. I suggested you read up on the history of unions merely so you could understand where and how you are wrong. I'm not suprised from your response.

Rolling Eyes

So what's the turnover rate in your company?

by **ziggy** on Fri May 09, 2008 7:17 pm

Cato wrote:
Aaron wrote:I think the problem Cato is that you base all unions on your wifes membership in whichever teachers union she belongs to and that is what is clouding your judgement.

I think maybe you should do a little reading and research and you might get a clear understanding of the Labor movement,. Start here to get some idea of different types of labor strikes and the try looking for some other sites. If you can't find any let me know and I'll see if I can find them for you.

Nope, My father was a member of the Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers. My wife is WVEA. I was a supervisor in a plant that was represented by the Carpenters and Jointers Union. I know well about and about lockouts. The union has the option of striking and management has the option of the lockout or closure. It still comes down to unions get what management is willing to concede. The fact is that just as unions can use a job actions to get what they want, management can use the lockout or plant closure to get what they want. If management is stupid enough to concede more thant hey can afford, then they close and someone else replaces them. Maybe not in the same location or with the same people, but they are ultimately replaced. We see that happening int he automotive industry.

As I said, as a stockholder in a company, which management conceded more than it could afford, I won't look at the union, I'd terminate the management. Afterall, they are my representative and are responsible for looking after my financial wellbeing. If they concede more than they can affard, they are failures and need to be removed. I'm beginning to think you are one of those types of managers that thinks they are infalible and goes about blaming their mistakes on everyone instead of going to the root of the problem, themselves.

by Aaron on Fri May 09, 2008 7:25 pm

by SamCogar on Sat May 10, 2008 2:08 am

Cato wrote:
SamCogar wrote: [Management NEVER willing gives into the demands of the Unions as many concessions as they unwillingly are forced into conceeding to the Union's demands.

Bull Cookies!!!!!!!!

Willy, we were not including public employee unions in this discussion. Razz

GEEEEZE, everyone knows that Legislative Management willing gives whatever the public employee unions demand ......... iffen it doesn't PO the other voters too much.

DUH, that's their "vote buying money" and is what creates all those "unfunded liabilities" at the State and City level. Very Happy

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by SamCogar on Sat May 10, 2008 2:27 am

Cato wrote: As usual you speak without much understanding. What managemant wants to give and is willing to give is on and two different things. For example managment want to give a benefit package without healthcare, but during the bargaining process .........

Willy, didn't you just pose a "falsehood" in order to prove your "point"? Twisted Evil

Willy, tell me, just why would management "want to give" Union employees a benefit package.

"No way, ....... Jose".

Maybe "willing to give" in return for ............... preventing a strike.

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