Re: Iran Had a Democracy Before We Took It Away

**ziggy** · by **ziggy** on Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:18 am

Cato wrote:
ziggy wrote:And so, Sweetie, the U.S. bears no responsibility for the several decades long chain of events that put these latest nincompoops in power?

As I said, the past is the past since you are to thick to comprehend yes the US meddled in affair it didn't belong. However, that is in the past. That fact remains that The people of Iran are responsible for the government they have today.

And if they changed it today, what reason do the people of Iran have to think that the U.S. wouldn't take it away from them again?

It's not like the U.S. turned over a new leaf and gave up nation building at the end of the 20th century, you know.

SamCogar · by SamCogar on Tue Jun 30, 2009 5:09 am

ziggy wrote:The U.S. has been coming down on the side of dictators for many decades.

And just why are you bitching about that?

Your socialist demands are little more than a want of "dictatorial power" by the clueless to tell everyone how to live.

**ziggy** · by **ziggy** on Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:23 pm

And just why are you bitching about that?

I'm not. That was my reply to Keli, who said:

Why is it that O always comes down on the side of communists and dictators?)

It is the American way to come down on the side of dictators.

Cato · by Cato on Wed Jul 01, 2009 10:16 am

ziggy wrote:
And just why are you bitching about that?

I'm not. That was my reply to Keli, who said:

Why is it that O always comes down on the side of communists and dictators?)

It is the American way to come down on the side of dictators.

Seems now it's the great black messiah's way, doesn't it. Yes, sir that change we can believe in.

By the way Ziggy, coming down on the dictator's side is the democratic and republican leaderships way. It is not the American way.

**ziggy** · by **ziggy** on Wed Jul 01, 2009 6:41 pm

Cato wrote:
ziggy wrote:
And just why are you bitching about that?

I'm not. That was my reply to Keli, who said:

Why is it that O always comes down on the side of communists and dictators?)

It is the American way to come down on the side of dictators.

Seems now it's the great black messiah's way, doesn't it. Yes, sir that change we can believe in.

By the way Ziggy, coming down on the dictator's side is the democratic and republican leaderships way. It is not the American way.

Yes it is the American way, and it has been for longer than you and I have lived. American is known by what it does- whether or not Ziggy or Cato thinks what it does is right or wrong.

Cato · by Cato on Wed Jul 01, 2009 7:29 pm

ziggy wrote:
Cato wrote:
ziggy wrote:
And just why are you bitching about that?

I'm not. That was my reply to Keli, who said:

Why is it that O always comes down on the side of communists and dictators?)

It is the American way to come down on the side of dictators.

Seems now it's the great black messiah's way, doesn't it. Yes, sir that change we can believe in.

By the way Ziggy, coming down on the dictator's side is the democratic and republican leaderships way. It is not the American way.

Yes it is the American way, and it has been for longer than you and I have lived. American is known by what it does- whether or not Ziggy or Cato thinks what it does is right or wrong.

So then EVERY American is an imperialist? Is that what you are saying? If you are by the way, you are wrong. Personally speaking I really don't care what happens in any other nation. If I could work my will there would be absolutely no foreign aide including humanitarian aide. Additionally we would never enter into an arms limitation agreement or treaty nor would we have troops on foreign soil. So far as I'm concerned the rest of the world could rot.

Now if you want to believe all Americans are imperialists go ahead, but it is the freaks in Washington that should be facing your wrath, not the average citizen. Then again, maybe you don't have the guts to place blame where it is due, at the feet of the politicians.

**ziggy** · by **ziggy** on Wed Jul 01, 2009 7:40 pm

Cato wrote:So then EVERY American is an imperialist? Is that what you are saying?

No. Lots of things are the American way- including American foreign policy. That does not mean that every American believes in that policy.

If it took unanamity for something to be the American way, then nothing would be done by the American way.

The "American way" is, pure and simply, how America conducts itself. And for decades and scores of years America has supported one dictator after another world wide.

**ziggy** · by **ziggy** on Wed Jul 01, 2009 10:26 pm

"The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion, but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact, non-Westerners never do."- Samuel P. Huntington

Cato · by Cato on Thu Jul 02, 2009 4:11 am

ziggy wrote:
Cato wrote:So then EVERY American is an imperialist? Is that what you are saying?

No. Lots of things are the American way- including American foreign policy. That does not mean that every American believes in that policy.

If it took unanamity for something to be the American way, then nothing would be done by the American way.

The "American way" is, pure and simply, how America conducts itself. And for decades and scores of years America has supported one dictator after another world wide.

Well, I'll tell you what Bozo, you call it the American way if you want, but you take a face away from the real criminals here and that is the politicians who buy their way into office. You are alot like those that want to blame "they". Who the world are "they". "They" are real people with real names, not some phantom that is here for a bit and then suddenly gone. The same is true with your "American Way". The American Way is a creation of the politicans both democrat and republican who have practiced meddling in the affairs of other nations for years. It isn't the American way, it is the political way, a way of convienence and reassuance of reelection.

Cato · by Cato on Thu Jul 02, 2009 4:16 am

ziggy wrote:
"The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion, but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact, non-Westerners never do."- Samuel P. Huntington

Well isn't that just special. I haven't a clue who Sammy Huntington is, but it appears he's just one more of the blame the US for every ill the world has known, gang. Simply he's appears to be a jerk and idiot.

Yes, the US government has made and still makes mistakes, but as evidenced by private giving, it is also the most benevolent nation of people on earth. I guess that doesn't figure into Sammy's or your view of the people of this nation. That's what pisses me off about people like you and Sammy H. You have no problem looking at the mistakes that are made, but you never ever acknowledge the good that people have accomplished.

**ziggy** · by **ziggy** on Thu Jul 02, 2009 9:47 am

Well, I'll tell you what Bozo, you call it the American way if you want, but you take a face away from the real criminals here and that is the politicians who buy their way into office.

Duuh, yeah. And we vote them into office at every election. It is the American way.

You are alot like those that want to blame "they". Who the world are "they". "They" are real people with real names, not some phantom that is here for a bit and then suddenly gone.

You have me confused with someone else. I do not use the word "they" to refer to some unnamed entities or other.

The same is true with your "American Way". The American Way is a creation of the politicans both democrat and republican who have practiced meddling in the affairs of other nations for years.

Duhh, yeah again. And since it's been done that way in America for a century or more, it has become the American way. If we want to change the American way, we will need to change the kinds of people we elect to public office in America. And as long as we vote for only the usual dweedle dee Republicrats or tweedle dee Democans, nothing will change.

It isn't the American way, it is the political way, a way of convienence and reassuance of reelection.

Duhh, again. The political way is the American way- and has been since even before America was an independent nation. If you don't think that the Founders were politicians up to their ears in factionalism and what very soon became partisanism, then you need to think again. When the first president was elected in 1789, it was a "contest" (albeit a lopsided presidential one) between the Federalists and the anti-Federalists. By 1796 partisan had become fully established as the American way, and has been ever since then.

Cato · by Cato on Thu Jul 02, 2009 4:25 pm

[quote="ziggy"]

Well, I'll tell you what Bozo, you call it the American way if you want, but you take a face away from the real criminals here and that is the politicians who buy their way into office.

Duuh, yeah. And we vote them into office at every election. It is the American way.
[/quote}

It may be the Ziggy way, but it certainly isn't the Cato way

**ziggy** · by **ziggy** on Thu Jul 02, 2009 6:40 pm

Cato wrote:

Well, I'll tell you what Bozo, you call it the American way if you want, but you take a face away from the real criminals here and that is the politicians who buy their way into office.

Ziggy wrote:

Duuh, yeah. And we vote them into office at every election. It is the American way.

Cato wrote:

It may be the Ziggy way, but it certainly isn't the Cato way.

Either way, Americans by the tens of millions vote for the tweedle dee Republicrat and tweedle dumb Democan partisans every election- and have for a couple centuries or so. So it is still the American way.

**ziggy** · by **ziggy** on Thu Jul 02, 2009 7:05 pm

Cato wrote:
ziggy wrote:
"The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion, but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact, non-Westerners never do."- Samuel P. Huntington

Well isn't that just special. I haven't a clue who Sammy Huntington is, but it appears he's just one more of the blame the US for every ill the world has known, gang. Simply he's appears to be a jerk and idiot.

So is it wrong to be superior in applying organized violence? Seems to me that if we're going to be in the business of war-making, that it makes sense to be superior at it.

I notice that you do not even deny that what he says may be true, but you call him a jerk and an idiot for saying so. Does the raw truth really hurt that much?

Aaron · by Aaron on Thu Jul 02, 2009 7:18 pm

ziggy wrote:
"The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion, but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact, non-Westerners never do."- Samuel P. Huntington

While I agree with the fact that the US meddled too much in the middle east (you're wrong in giving the US sole ownership on installing the Shah into power), Mr. Huntington is wrong here. You can't win with might, you have to win the hearts and minds of the people or the fighting doesn't stop.