Is the economy this bad?

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Is the economy this bad?

Post by Aaron on Fri Jul 18, 2008 8:29 pm

I've thought the media has been part of the liberal campaign for a very long time. Take BO's trip to the Middle East for example. All 3 news anchors are accompanying him and will be reporting daily on this trip. He'll get more free advertising the McCain can afford to buy.

And why? Perhaps the answer appears in the article.



The Obama Recession?

Economics -- to most people as useful a course of study as ancient Bulgarian literature -- is really the study of human behavior. This kind of behavior is labeled “emergent” -- meaning it is a large-scale pattern that emerges spontaneously out of the interactions of numerous individuals each independently following a more local program. (In the case of the economy, this more-local program is the perceived self-interest of each of the millions of people within the economy.)

Because of the huge number of factors involved, and the constant feedback of one factor on another, predicting emergent effects is as difficult as predicting next year’s hurricanes. This is why economists follow so many indicators, do so much math, and often end up wrong anyway.

But there are times when the economy is not a purely emergent effect -- when the behavior of a significant number of individuals is effectively coordinated by an outside force. A prime example is the final ending of the Great Depression by World War Two. During the Depression, deflation and unemployment created an emergent cycle of fear and uncertainty that undermined investor and consumer confidence. The ensuing reductions in spending, investment, and risk-taking lead to further deflation and unemployment.Continued

The needs of national crisis and war brought this cycle to a sudden and non-spontaneous end. The unemployed were drafted or put to work in support of the troops. The hard break in psychology and behavior (aided by propaganda) then helped to prepare the way for the return of confidence and economic growth following the war.

This presidential election year may prove to be another example of economic tone and human behavior being determined by war and propaganda. The war in this case is the American equivalent of the modern civil war: a presidential election. The propaganda will be spontaneously offered up by the mainstream media in support of their favored party.

Highlighting economic (and other) bad news anytime it can be pinned on a Republican incumbent (or his successor) has been standard procedure in the left-leaning media for decades. They exaggerated the mild, brief recession of 1992 into “the worst economy in fifty years”. No one really believed that the economy was worse off then than it was, say, during the late 1970’s. However, facts mattered little and were only a starting place for much somber “reporting” in support of Bill Clinton’s gloomy talking points. “Talking down” the economy to bolster a Democrat challenger is nothing new.

And several factors could make this year’s talking-down much worse than usual.

Unlike 1992, this economy faces real and significant structural problems. Housing prices have crashed, lending has contracted, the dollar has been halved, oil prices have soared, and food prices have been biofueled up to recent highs.

All these issues have taken a huge toll on consumer confidence, pushing it -- and the stock market -- to the lowest levels in years. And consumer confidence is precisely what is targeted by exaggerated election-year doom-mongering from the mainstream media. Given the already anemic state that confidence is in, it may not take much hyperbole and rant to send it into a tailspin -- especially since the media will have much better ammunition to work with in such an already worrisome economic environment.

Another factor that could make this election into an economic disaster is the amazing amount of pent-up hate and disdain that much of the media has for George W. Bush. It doesn’t matter to them (or other Democrats) that he is not running for re-election and that John McCain is a very different man, with his own policies, and no great personal love for Bush. The left sees this election as a reactionary holy war -- a chance to “take back” the country from a hated, demonized (and plainly incompetent) figure. Self-restraint will likely not be in fashion for Democrat journalists between now and November -- especially when compounded by the third factor pointing toward a coming propaganda war against the American economy -- Obamamania.

Obama’s greatest support comes from two distinct groups. One is upper middle-class, college-educated white liberals -- or as I like to call them -- “journalism majors.” The other group is blacks -- the favorite victim class of journalism majors. It should be no surprise then that Obama is being hailed as something akin to a reincarnated hybrid-idol, Martin-Luther-John/Bobby-Kennedy-King. For the mainstream media, Obama will be the most instinctively protected presidential candidate in history. He will be above criticism, a sacred cause, and a personal mission for many journalists.

Together, these factors could combine to ensure that this year’s economy is no random and autonomous event. The economy will very likely be wounded deeply by the media, so that Obama can ride its limping form to the White House. Even if good economic news were to occur in the next few months, I can’t imagine that it will be reported by most outlets.

Most politicians have to actually get into office to cause a severe recession. Obama (and his supporters) may cause one as collateral campaign damage before a single vote is cast.

The future is never certain, but this may be one chapter in which the script has been written and the actors will deliver their lines predictably.source
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Re: Is the economy this bad?

Post by shermangeneral on Sat Jul 19, 2008 6:04 am

A vast economic conspiracy?

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Re: Is the economy this bad?

Post by ohio county on Sat Jul 19, 2008 6:07 am

No, it isn't vast. It's only about half vast.

Actually, the article was very good.
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Re: Is the economy this bad?

Post by Aaron on Sat Jul 19, 2008 6:15 am

But it is there. I seem to recall it was about a year ago that the media suddenly started putting the economy as the number one item on the news, even though very few if any of the economic indicators pointed to a recession. It was right about the time the surge started taking hold and violence started decreasing in Iraq.
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Re: Is the economy this bad?

Post by shermangeneral on Sat Jul 19, 2008 6:34 am

Aaron are you old enough to remember Spiro Agnew and his comment about "nattering nabobs" of negativism?

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Re: Is the economy this bad?

Post by Aaron on Sat Jul 19, 2008 6:43 am

As a 7 year old, I paid no attention to politics. But I do know how ones outlook effects our economy. Negativism can be endless cycle. The great depression proves that.

And if you will recall, the liberal media has been 'talking' us into a recession for well over a year, even though technically we're not in one. At least not yet. But I'm sure they will keep talking until we are in one and then BO can come and save the day, just like Bill Clinton did in 93.

Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes
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Re: Is the economy this bad?

Post by Randall on Sat Jul 19, 2008 1:56 pm

I think the definitive study of the modern media's effect on the human psyche has yet to be done. But I do wonder if the human mind is not equipped to the daily bombardment of information that we receive nowadays. The constant stream of mostly negative news has to have some effect, at least on some people prone to anxiety. The media has heightened the feeling of impending doom by spinning every story, no matter what the topic, as a threat to you and your family. I wonder how different things would have been had our 2008 media been present during, say, the Depression, when a quarter of Americans were out of work, the entire worldwide economy had collapsed, tyrannical despots controlled Germany, Italy, and the Soviet Union and were poised for war, the United States was experiencing the hottest temperatues ever recorded, and the entire midwest and east were engulfed by drought-induced dust storms. Can you imagine if all that were happening today? People would be utterly freaking out. We've lost our perspective, our ability to process.

Just my two cents.
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Re: Is the economy this bad?

Post by Stephanie on Wed Jul 23, 2008 10:07 pm

I think Randall is certainly on to something.

Times are tough and they will get tougher. I believe that. Will they be as bad as when my grandparents were young and starting out in life? I certainly doubt it, but it does seem to me we are heading into a storm.

What role does the media play? I say this....in another thread I mentioned my concern about a violent uprising. I think it is entirely possible and if it comes to pass it will be largely because we cannot escape the gloom and doom news. People didn't have round the clock access to instant news with "journalists" putting their own spin on every event large and small.

I see another huge difference between then and now. Then the government was violating key civil liberties of American citizens. Today they are and people are not only scared, they are angry and they are blaming the government. I think the politicians have largely earned the blame.
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Re: Is the economy this bad?

Post by shermangeneral on Thu Jul 24, 2008 5:54 am

Good point Randall.

I remember back in the fifties when Underwood was Governor and how bad it was then.

Rampant unemployment, poverty, misery.

It was bad.

But even bad as it was I still remember my mother telling me as a child that those were not hard times compared to the Hoover days.

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Re: Is the economy this bad?

Post by Aaron on Thu Jul 24, 2008 6:04 am

I wonder if BO will make the situation worse upon entering office in regard to our economy in the same manner FDR did in 33?
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Re: Is the economy this bad?

Post by ziggy on Thu Jul 24, 2008 6:43 am

All these issues have taken a huge toll on consumer confidence, pushing it -- and the stock market -- to the lowest levels in years. And consumer confidence is precisely what is targeted by exaggerated election-year doom-mongering from the mainstream media. Given the already anemic state that confidence is in, it may not take much hyperbole and rant to send it into a tailspin -- especially since the media will have much better ammunition to work with in such an already worrisome economic environment.


If the managed economy can be tanked simply by a political campaign for President which points out the negative economic plights of certain people, then it must have been an artificially pumped up, over-hyped economy already.

What a fictional world we have bred- one in which economic over-confidence somehow leads to as "good" economy- but that honest critiques of the plight of certain disadvantaged people and groups of people somehow leads to an economic "tailspin".

Pogo syndrome, again.
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Re: Is the economy this bad?

Post by SFCraig on Thu Jul 24, 2008 8:26 am

The terms "recession" or "depression" have no real meaning, imo. The fundamentals are horrible. Housing has collapsed and the financial sector (now more than 20% of our economy) is in complete disarray. Unemployment is up and the numbers don't really reveal how "underemployed" and underpaid we are. Wages are down and they've managed to drive a stake in the heart of American "wealth"; home ownership.

We don't make anything any more. We've embraced a philosophy that virtually guarantees any good job can be shipped overseas.

I'd say with nobody guarding the henhouse, the Wall Street plunderers have greatly weakened the economy. This is true whether or not we've had 2 consecutive quarters of negative growth. Smile

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Re: Is the economy this bad?

Post by Aaron on Sat Jul 26, 2008 7:39 pm

ziggy wrote:
All these issues have taken a huge toll on consumer confidence, pushing it -- and the stock market -- to the lowest levels in years. And consumer confidence is precisely what is targeted by exaggerated election-year doom-mongering from the mainstream media. Given the already anemic state that confidence is in, it may not take much hyperbole and rant to send it into a tailspin -- especially since the media will have much better ammunition to work with in such an already worrisome economic environment.


If the managed economy can be tanked simply by a political campaign for President which points out the negative economic plights of certain people, then it must have been an artificially pumped up, over-hyped economy already.

What a fictional world we have bred- one in which economic over-confidence somehow leads to as "good" economy- but that honest critiques of the plight of certain disadvantaged people and groups of people somehow leads to an economic "tailspin".

Pogo syndrome, again.


I've thought about this quite a bit Frank and here's the thing. I don't think the economy is in that bad of shape. Yes, fuel prices are high but that is due to overseas demand and speculators. If nothing else, it forced Americans to reduce our demand so it's not an overall bad thing. It also has Americans looking at alternatives to foreign oil, which is once again, not a bad thing.

Yes, housing is in the tank but it should be. Housing doubled much too fast and it had to correct itself. There was no way pricing could keep up with the growth.

Yes, some banks have failed. They should have. They made bad business decisions and that’s exactly what should have happened.

As bad as the housing market is though, those houses are not going to just up and disappear. In the end, someone or lots of someone’s are going to make a boat load of money off of all these houses that they are going to get cheap.

I believe our economy is fairly sound and is going through a much need correction. I worry about the dollar but I’m sure that will rebound as well.

What I think is happening is that the VERY liberal media is making Mt. Everest out of a mole hill because they WANT BO as the next president and this is there way of 'campaigning' for him. And they are counting on a very gullible, upset, angry bunch of voters to fall for this crap hook, line and sinker.

The sad thing is, there are those out there that are.
Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty.

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Re: Is the economy this bad?

Post by Stephanie on Sat Jul 26, 2008 8:11 pm

Aaron this economy is in pretty rough shape. It isn't just the price of oil and the banks and the housing market. It's the sharp increase in food, it's rising unemployment and the rising cost of all energy. It's our unwillingness or inability to deal with the causes of these difficulties and this includes the outsourcing of jobs, the national debt, the personal debt of Americans, our fiat currency, our foreign policy, entitlements that are swallowing up all of the budget and too much of our paychecks, and our insistance at allowing more and more people in....our population is growing too fast too quickly for the resources we have. It's that simple.

Some of these issues nobody wants to think about, much less do anything about them.
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Re: Is the economy this bad?

Post by ziggy on Sat Jul 26, 2008 8:27 pm

Aaron wrote:I've thought about this quite a bit Frank and here's the thing. I don't think the economy is in that bad of shape. Yes, fuel prices are high but that is due to overseas demand and speculators. If nothing else, it forced Americans to reduce our demand so it's not an overall bad thing. It also has Americans looking at alternatives to foreign oil, which is once again, not a bad thing.

Yes, housing is in the tank but it should be. Housing doubled much too fast and it had to correct itself. There was no way pricing could keep up with the growth.

Yes, some banks have failed. They should have. They made bad business decisions and that’s exactly what should have happened.

As bad as the housing market is though, those houses are not going to just up and disappear. In the end, someone or lots of someone’s are going to make a boat load of money off of all these houses that they are going to get cheap.

I believe our economy is fairly sound and is going through a much need correction. I worry about the dollar but I’m sure that will rebound as well.

What I think is happening is that the VERY liberal media is making Mt. Everest out of a mole hill because they WANT BO as the next president and this is there way of 'campaigning' for him. And they are counting on a very gullible, upset, angry bunch of voters to fall for this crap hook, line and sinker.

The sad thing is, there are those out there that are.


So then is it that, while you think that the political campaign talk about the economy is not actually ruining the economy, but you do worry that political discussion about the economy might help to elect Barack Obama?
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