Will bush mkt finish lower than when he was installed?

shermangeneral wrote:Well to get this thread restored back on its original track, the stock mkt finished below 11K for the first time in years.

So now the question might better be will the mkt be at the lowest point while he's been in office not just lower than it was when he started.

How much influence does the President have over the stock market? How does he have that influence?

Can the President spend money? Article One of the US Constitution gives the power to levy taxes and to apprpriate money to

Congress. So is the stock market Bush's fault because he is evil and therefore everything MUST be his fault?

The American people are smart enough to figure it out. They know the price of gas. They're already driving less and seeking smaller cars. I don't need to tell them; they can balance their checkbook

Bush's answer when asked why he wasn't mounting a large-scale public campaign to urge conservation despite his earlier selection.

I think GWB's response was based on the philosophy that Americans can take care of themselves and don't need the government to do it for them whereas the liberal response is that government needs to tell the American people what to do and how to do it.

I think the government needs to preach conservation but I believe that they need to preach it in their actions first. How can we tell the American people to conserve when our government mandates the production and use of corn based ethanol, a product that requires more energy then it saves? When we as a nation are not demanding higher CAFE standards and allowing trucks and SUV's exemption status? When we won't allow production of new and updated refineries to meet our demands?

SG has posted Jimmy Carter's energy conservation speech several times and it's all well and good and I do believe we should reduce per person energy consumption but that is not going to reduce the total amount of energy we use as the population increases.

If anything, energy consumption is going to increase and we need to meet that demand. Whether it's with alternative energy sources or with new coal or nuclear power plants, we can't wait 10 to 15 years to start building them.

We as a nation must start addressing our energy needs RIGHT NOW, in a realistic manner and we must do it with our ACTIONS, not words. Words without action accomplish nothing. Just ask Jimmy Carter.

I think you're exactly right about energy consumption. It ain't going to get any better.

I've always believed that market forces would determine the speed and efficacy of the development of new sources of energy. And while I would not disagree that the government should encourage conservation, I would not agree that government should meddle in the markets and manipulate prices or dip into the national reserves in an ill-advised attempt to relieve tight supply.

Hi OC,

I don't trust the markets (because I don't trust people in general) to make the best choices (I also don't trust government to do so), but I do think in this case that you are right. Once the price gets right, I think we will see no shortage of oil alternatives and in the end might just be better off for it.

Well I remember Nixon did a tax credit of several hundred dollars for purchasers of American built cars.

Maybe something like that would help jump start things.

Sure. Toyota Corollas are made in the U.S. The Ford Fusion is not. The Honda Civic is made in the U.S. The Dodge Caravan is not. Is 60% enough? Do you have to be owned by Americans? Who decides? Boosh?

Well I guess it was simpler when Nixon did it.

I remember someone discussing how best to use the recent stimulus checks and they said dont buy walmart or dollar general or Family dollar etc because all the money would go back to China.

So they were trying to decide how to spend $1200 and be assured the money would recirculate in the local economy and the best they could come up with was spend it at yard sales...

Kroger was selling gift certificates. You had to buy four $300 certificates with a face value of $330 for a ten percent bonus. I got some imported strawberries at $2.00/lb.

Cato wrote: opening up the whole of the US and its coast to drilling.

Explain to me, Libertarian, how forcing Florida and California citizens to destroy their coastlines and reduce their own property values is consistent with your philosophy? Would we be allowed to charge anything we want? Is it okay because it's for the "greater good"?

Are you recommending that the whole country submit to Government mandated "mountain-top removal"?

I thought you were against "authoritarianism", and presumably pro "state's rights"? Aren't you a Federalist?

Inquiring minds want to know!

What about offshore drilling will destroy the coastlines? Louisiana's is suffering but I don't think it is because of drilling. I think it is because of levees and fertilizers. I believe the dynamics of the Louisiana coastline are unique.

I was reading an article in one of the news magazines a few months back and it stated that one of environmentalist major concerns about off shore drilling was the potential spills. According to the article, more oil seeps from the ocean floor then was spilled from drilling rigs, including rigs hit by Katrina and other Hurricanes in 2005.

Well maybe the prospect of oil spills and having their view cluttered by oil rigs will cultivate some appreciation for what southern wvians have to put up with i.e. strip mines, mountaintop removals, etc.

Sheik, you said:

I don't trust the markets (because I don't trust people in general) to make the best choices.

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by that. People always react in a predictable and rational way in terms of price pressures. I'm sure there are examples that will prove me wrong but when prices rise and create insurmountable pressure on consumers they find alternatives. Now that might be public transportation or it might be local vacations or it might mean more hamburger helper. I don't know.

Similarly, if global warmiing is indeed a man-made problem that requires palliative measures I think those will come from breakthrough technological discoveries and in a much shorter period of time than we are being told is required. That is, the tipping point is supposed to occur depending on whom one believes within a year or two. I do not believe that we are willing to pay the price required to take those measures now. I guess we'll see...

Obviously Boosh is very unpopular across the board - nearly as unpopular as the Congress. If Boosh had talked as I demonstrated above and immediately below, I know I'd be more inclined to defend him now. It's a bit late for that.

But my point to you, Mark, is that, you know, it's a little presumptuous on my part to dictate to consumers how they live their lives. The American people are plenty capable and plenty smart people and they'll make adjustments to their own pocketbooks. That's why I was so much in favor of letting them keep more of their own money. It's a philosophical difference: Should the government spend their money, or should they spend their own money? And I've got faith in the American people.

70% of the oil in the Gulf in production now is considered "deep sea". I may be wrong but I don't think you can see the platforms from shore. I walked along the beach at Holley Beach, Louisiana in April, 2005 and I couldn't see anything on the horizon.

I saw numbers yesterday, Aaron, on the total number of gallons spilled last year. It was tiny. I'm having a little trouble finding it this morning.