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You better cheer …. or you might be next.

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Post by SamCogar Sat Jun 28, 2008 7:13 am

At least 5,000 people cheer at beheading and shooting of American sympathizers.

Waliur Rehman, a local Taliban commander, told the crowd that the two men confessed to aiding in a suspected U.S. missile strike on a house in the border town of Damadola that killed 14 people last month. The men disclosed the names of others involved, and they would be killed as well, he said.

"Whoever, for the sake of money, for the sake of America, harms the interest of the Islamic world will meet the same fate," he said.

Gunmen with daggers then pounced on one of the men — identified as Jan Wali, 36 — decapitated him and waved his bloody head to the cheering crowd.

The militants then argued over how to kill the other man because he may have been a teenager, before one lost patience and shot him with an assault rifle.

The crowd erupted in cheers of "God is great!" and gunmen fired in the air in jubilation. The celebratory gunfire killed two bystanders and wounded six, local official Fazal Rabbi said.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,372883,00.html

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Post by Stephanie Sat Jun 28, 2008 9:47 am

And just what do you suppose would happen if American military leaders had taken similar action against an American who aided an American who assisted with an attack on Americans?

Public executions were regularly held in this country for a very long time. The crowds were frequently huge and many times the atmosphere was celebratory.
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Post by Aaron Sat Jun 28, 2008 10:07 am

I thought you favored American intervention in Afghanistan Stephanie. Was I wrong?
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Post by Stephanie Sat Jun 28, 2008 10:14 am

What has that got to do with this discussion?
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Post by Aaron Sat Jun 28, 2008 10:40 am

Everything. If we are not in Afghanistan, this doesn't happen.

If we remain in Afghanistan and this continues to happen, how do we not respond against the Pakistani miliants.

You've expressed concern over a prolonged stay in Iraq and a possible attack against Iran while at the same time, supporting more troops in Afghanistan.

Now look at both countries. Iraq is becoming more stable while Afghanistan is not. May marked the first month where Afghanistan's combat death toll outnumbered Iraq's.

What it has to with the conversation is that your points of view seem to conflict.
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Post by SamCogar Sat Jun 28, 2008 10:57 am

Stephanie wrote:And just what do you suppose would happen if American military leaders had taken similar action against an American who aided an American who assisted with an attack on Americans?.

Well, 1st of all, ..... it would have pissed off all the Defense Lawyers ..... and all the "bleeding heart liberals".

The Lawyers would be pissed because said action would negate any possibility of any one of them making a "ton of money" as their Defense Counsel.

And all the "bleeding heart liberals" would be pissed because they wanted him "turned back loose on the streets" ...... to do it again, ..... and besides, next time it might be "one of their own".

And 2ndly, ..... I would never again be worrying about ....... "them doing it again".

You better cheer …. or you might be next. 197570 You better cheer …. or you might be next. 197570 You better cheer …. or you might be next. 197570 You better cheer …. or you might be next. 197570 You better cheer …. or you might be next. 197570


ps, and in ref to "just what do you suppose would happen if", ...... Stephanie, I justa bout busted a gut laughing ….. when I heard at least two (2) idiotic partisan anti-gun females on TV, ….. asking a couple happy pro-2nd Amendment supporters …… “But now just how are you going to be able to control the criminals in Washington, DC and other big cities if the citizens are permitted to own guns?”

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Post by Stephanie Sat Jun 28, 2008 11:13 am

Aaron,

You are overlooking some very important facts when you bring up Iraq and Afghanistan. Such as, our presence in Iraq means less US forces available for deployment in Afghanistan. Our neglect of Afghanistan has lead to latest rise of the Taliban and has allowed for violence to spread across the border into Pakistan.

You say Iraq has become more stable since when? Certainly Iraq is not as stable as before the US attacked and toppled the government. Certainly Iraq has much more violence and has seen an explosion of terrorism and terrorist attacks since our government invaded. Iraq's borders have become porous with refugees fleeing and Islamic extremists pouring in.

We have been squandering our opportunity in Afghanistan by sending US forces into Iraq that were needed to stabilize Afghanistan. I don't understand why anyone expresses surprise.

I supported invading Afghanistan because that is where the terrorists were organizing and training. We are suffering higher losses in Afghanistan because the brain drain in Washington needlessly sent troops into Iraq bringing chaos and terrorism to a nation that, for all its problems, wasn't manufacturing suicide bombers and Islamic extremists.

Our invasion and occupation of Iraq has lead to major problems in not just Iraq, but in Iran, Afghanistan and Pakistan as well.


Last edited by Stephanie on Sat Jun 28, 2008 5:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Stephanie Sat Jun 28, 2008 11:17 am

Sam,

The point I was trying to make to you was it seems to me you are criticizing the Taliban for doing to their enemies what you would celebrate Americans doing to theirs.

Am I wrong?


Last edited by Stephanie on Sat Jun 28, 2008 5:16 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : typo)
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Post by Aaron Sat Jun 28, 2008 11:30 am

Stephanie,

I'm not sure what you're agruing here. What we should have done 5 years ago or what we should do now.

I've got a couple of games to go to. If you can clarify your post, I'll respond tonight.
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Post by Stephanie Sat Jun 28, 2008 5:23 pm

I deleted "Afghanistan because"......it was in there twice. Embarassed

Our government screwed up when it attacked Iraq. We are paying the price in Afghanistan as well as in Iraq. The people of Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, and Pakistan are also paying heavy prices.

I think other than the typo it is pretty clear.
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Post by Aaron Sat Jun 28, 2008 6:44 pm

I wasn't talking about a word twice. I wasn't sure if you were referring to what we SHOULD have done 5 years ago or what we should have done now.

I agree, we shouldn't have went into Iraq 5 years ago. That doesn't change the small simple fact that we are there now.

So what is the objective in Afghanistan? The capture of OBL or are we nation building there as well?

If we want to rid that country of the Taliban, then we're going to have to commit to staying there for about a hundred years. Are you ready to make that commitment?
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Post by SheikBen Sun Jun 29, 2008 7:13 am

5000 cheer at the beheading of American sympathizers? Why didn't we bomb the occasion?

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Post by Stephanie Sun Jun 29, 2008 7:30 am

Aaron,

You know the objectives were, and remain different. In Iraq, the obvious objective was to topple the government. Mission accomplished, right? Too bad we traded Saddam Hussein for suicide bombers and radical Islamic extremists.

In Afghanistan, the goal was to destroy terrorist training camps, catch and/or kill OBL and other terrorist leaders. Bin Laden has remained elusive, and may be dead, but we were well on our way to ridding Afghanistan of terrorism.

We only need to remain in Afghanistan for one hundred years if we continue the recent course.
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Post by SamCogar Sun Jun 29, 2008 9:18 am

Stephanie wrote:Sam,

The point I was trying to make to you was it seems to me you are criticizing the Taliban for doing to their enemies what you would celebrate Americans doing to theirs.

Am I wrong?

AAAAAAAAAWWWWW Steph, ...... now you know, .... and I know, ....... what the point was that you were trying to make ......... and that wasn't it.

Now you asked, to wit:

Stephanie wrote:
And just what do you suppose would happen if American military leaders had taken similar action against an American who aided an American who assisted with an attack on Americans?.

And I told you exactly what would happen.

But you don't want to face reality by accepting my answer as the "gawd awful factual truth".

Gawd awful ...... because that is the same way you lefty liberal bleeding hearts want to treat child murdering predators and others who perpetuate senseless henious crimes against innocent people.

Stephanie, it was double deviousness on your part to reply to my Post by equating and/or comparing the Taliban to our American Military leaders.

The Taliban is not the Military leaders of Pakistan ....... any more than are the dozens of "gangs" the Law Enforcement Agencies of Los Angeles.

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Post by Aaron Sun Jun 29, 2008 9:23 am

Stephanie wrote:Aaron,

You know the objectives were, and remain different. In Iraq, the obvious objective was to topple the government. Mission accomplished, right? Too bad we traded Saddam Hussein for suicide bombers and radical Islamic extremists.

In Afghanistan, the goal was to destroy terrorist training camps, catch and/or kill OBL and other terrorist leaders. Bin Laden has remained elusive, and may be dead, but we were well on our way to ridding Afghanistan of terrorism.

We only need to remain in Afghanistan for one hundred years if we continue the recent course.

So if that was/is our goals, then why did we remove the Taliban from power?
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Post by SamCogar Sun Jun 29, 2008 9:58 am

Stephanie wrote:Our government screwed up when it attacked Iraq.

Aaron wrote:I agree, we shouldn't have went into Iraq 5 years ago.

NO, you are both wrong.

The invasion of Iraq was the "right thing" to do ..... and the screwup didn't occur until our Government REFUSED to engage "the enemy" with the intent to destroy them.

And then the screwup was compounded and exacerbated when our Government "hurried up" the turning over of control of Iraq to the people before any of the people were capable of being in control of an Iraqi government.

That action by our Government was as stupid as would be if the State School Board took control of Poca High School, .... fired the Principals and all the Teachers ...... and then let the students "vote" as to which ones of their fellow students would be put in control of the School.

You better cheer …. or you might be next. 33948 You better cheer …. or you might be next. 33948 You better cheer …. or you might be next. 33948


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Post by Stephanie Sun Jun 29, 2008 3:31 pm

Sam,

I am not being devious. Do I think there would be bleeding heart liberals hollering and raising every ring of Dante's Hell? You betchya. You can also be your last nickle there would be people cheering with glee too, and the latter would certainly outnumber the former, even after all the years have passed. Now imagine for a moment, if you will, what the numbers would likely have been if instead of 7 years later, those executions took place only 7 months after the 9-11 attacks. Then you might have a better comparison.

I'd really like to know just why it is you think we were justified in attacking Iraq. What threat did Iraq pose to America? There were no WMD found......Iraq wasn't manufacturing and exporting terrorists the way some countries were. Iraqis weren't killing Americans then like they are now.
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Post by SamCogar Sun Jun 29, 2008 6:16 pm

Stephanie wrote:Sam,

I'd really like to know just why it is you think we were justified in attacking Iraq.

Steph, because unquestionably, it is an absolute fact that .........

One ounce of prevention

is worth more

than 5 pounds of cure.


You better cheer …. or you might be next. 197570 You better cheer …. or you might be next. 197570

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Post by Aaron Sun Jun 29, 2008 6:42 pm

Stephanie wrote:
I'd really like to know just why it is you think we were justified in attacking Iraq. What threat did Iraq pose to America? There were no WMD found......Iraq wasn't manufacturing and exporting terrorists the way some countries were. Iraqis weren't killing Americans then like they are now.

No WMD's were found and that is hindsight.

List your reasons for supporting the invasion and lets see how they stack up against not only Sam's but others.
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Post by Stephanie Sun Jun 29, 2008 9:10 pm

Sam is still saying it was the right decision.

It's a fair question why. We were told Hussein had WMD. We were told he was hiding things from weapons inspectors and not being cooperative. That was believable to me, and to a majority of Americans because in the past he had used WMD on his own people.
America had soldiers on the ground in nearby Afghanistan and not too distant Saudi Arabia and other locations were it was feasible for Hussein to launch an attack causing loss of American service men & women.

We were deceived. Take away the WMD's and what do you have? You have a relatively stable nation living under a dictator in the past we supported. A dictator without an airforce or navy posed no threat to Americans and little threat to his neighbors. The only people in peril were Iraqis. That wasn't something the USA should step in to.

Unless you think we should go into Zimbabwe and about a dozen other nations too. We are supposed to be a democratic republic, not an empire. So why are we in the business of building empires?
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Post by Stephanie Sun Jun 29, 2008 9:12 pm

Sam,

Without terrorists, WMD's, an airforce or a Navy, just what was Iraq about to do to us we prevented?
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Post by Aaron Sun Jun 29, 2008 9:38 pm

I'm not saying Iraq was an immient threat to America. I agree with Sam that sooner or later we were going to have to deal with Sadaam but I don't think 2003 was the time. I felt like we should have committed our resources to Afghanistan and when that job was finished, turned our attentions elsewhere. But that's neither here nor there.

You ask a question...

I'd really like to know just why it is you think we were justified in attacking Iraq.

...and considering you supported the invasion, I think it's a bit of a hypocritical question. At least that's how I see it.
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Post by Stephanie Sun Jun 29, 2008 10:00 pm

It's not hypocritical because I have admitted I was wrong and I was wrong because I was mislead. Sam, still insists attacking Iraq was the best course of action.

At least I'm honest about it.

With no airforce, navy, WMD's or delivery system......just what were we going to have to deal with?
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Post by Aaron Sun Jun 29, 2008 10:38 pm

Not everyone is convinced there wasn't any weapons of mass destruction or at the very least, proper feedstock.

A few things we know.

1) Sadaam Hussein HATED the Bush family

2) Money was not object for Hussein.

3) He had a history of using WMD's.

While I agree he was fairly contained in 2003, I don't for a second believe he was as hapless as you now want to make him out to be. If anything, he was more akin to a cornered animal who was waiting for the right time to strike.

And as for admitting you were duped, that doesn't change the facts we face today in the slightest.
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Post by ziggy Sun Jun 29, 2008 10:47 pm

No WMD's were found and that is hindsight.

It was not "hindsight" for the people in the best position to know- the U.N. weapons inspectors on the ground in Iraq in 2002 and early 2003 (pre-invasion) who said they had not found WMDs.
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