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Democrats: Double check your ballots and cross fingers...

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Post by sodbuster Tue Oct 28, 2008 5:06 pm

Well zig I posted a link to the source.

As I understand it was several other states (not wv) but the same company.

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Post by ziggy Tue Oct 28, 2008 5:42 pm

The same company makes several different kinds of machines. Some states require paper trail, for example, and others do not. The company will make the machine either way.

Several years ago about 40 people were on the Secretary of State's "HAVA Committee". The primary purpose of the committee was to help make recommendations for electronic voting machines- to be paid for by federal $$$ after Congress the Help America Vote Act. I was there representing the Mountain Party. On that committee were also representatives of the Democratic and Republican parties, of the League of Women Voters, of WV Citizen Action Group, and of the County Clerks Association, among others.

One of the meetings was a day long demonstration of various kinds of electronic voting machines. The only committee group that objected to paper trails was the County Clerks Association. Their only stated rationale was that "they are not necessary". The voting machine company reps., who work closely with County Commissions and Clerks in an effort to sell their machines, tried to talk down the idea of a paper trail. I suspect this was because (1) they knew that Clerks didn't want them, and (2) with the paper trail there is some implication that maybe the electronic vote recording part of the machines were less than dependable, among maybe other reasons.

But the recommendations for an auditable paper trail won out, and so whatever model of machine counties in West Virginia use, it must have an auditable paper trail. Not so in all states.
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Post by Stephanie Tue Oct 28, 2008 11:26 pm

I have absolutely no idea why you people are debating this issue.

It doesn't matter if we use paper ballots, computers, of titanium. If Obama doesn't win Sherm and other leftwing loons will have tantrums insisting the election was stolen. That is a fact.

They cannot accept defeat. They are not only unwilling, they are unable. They will employ any and all available means to achieve the victory that has been so elusive for them. Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing.

Honestly, if Sherm had his way the coronation would take place tomorrow, let's just skip the election. While we're coronating Obama, let's just give Capito the boot and crown the liar Barth while we're at it.
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Post by ziggy Thu Oct 30, 2008 9:57 pm

It doesn't matter if we use paper ballots, computers, of titanium. If Obama doesn't win Sherm and other leftwing loons will have tantrums insisting the election was stolen. That is a fact.

If McCain doesn't win, Keli and his right wing goons will have tantrums insisting the election was stolen.
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Post by sodbuster Thu Oct 30, 2008 10:05 pm

"The primary purpose of the committee was to help make recommendations for electronic voting machines- to be paid for by federal $$$ after Congress the Help America Vote Act. I was there representing the Mountain Party. On that committee were also representatives of the Democratic and Republican parties, of the League of Women Voters, of WV Citizen Action Group, and of the County Clerks Association, among others."

Well zig was one of the options to not risk compromising the accountability and integrity of the process and just stick with the paper ballots you mark and drop in the box?

Or was it assumed from the get-go you would choose some kind of electronic system?

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Post by Stephanie Thu Oct 30, 2008 10:12 pm

ziggy wrote:
It doesn't matter if we use paper ballots, computers, of titanium. If Obama doesn't win Sherm and other leftwing loons will have tantrums insisting the election was stolen. That is a fact.

If McCain doesn't win, Keli and his right wing goons will have tantrums insisting the election was stolen.

Many of us will always wonder what impact ACORN's fraud had on this election. Who can blame us?
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Post by ziggy Thu Oct 30, 2008 11:02 pm

Has Acorn fraud been actually demonstrated- or just suggested as a part of pre-election hype?

How many people associated wirth Acorn have been arrested for election fraud?
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Post by Aaron Fri Oct 31, 2008 6:31 am

It's not election fraud, it's voter registration fraud and if you can't see it, your blind. If you refuse to see it, your a blind partisan hack.

Yeah, I said it.

Very Happy
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Post by sodbuster Fri Oct 31, 2008 7:04 am

Well you cannot say zig is a partisan let alone hack.

He does not even belong to either party.

I am not sure if Strephanie understands what is going on with the voter registration deal with acorn.

But I think you understand.

So why would you post such a thing about zig being partisan for just gently trying to explain to her what the situation is?

"FYI, in most states, by state law, organizations conducting voter registration drives are required to turn in all the forms they collect. So ACORN cannot engage in discrimination by tossing out *any* forms, period.

In fact, ACORN generally categorizes the forms they receive as “good”, “incomplete”, and “questionable”, and turns them in in separate bundles with cover sheets indicating that. Most of the ones they are being accused of fraud on are ones they themselves categorized as “questionable”.


This deal in Indiana was exacerbated by grandstanding republican election officials implying that they uncovered some kind of fraudulent plot when Acorn themselves had already sorted them and marked them.

They were merely complying with state law by turning them in.

I believe you already knew that so your accusation against zig is not well founded.

I doubt Stephanie knew that so she gets a break.

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Post by Aaron Fri Oct 31, 2008 7:48 am

First, Sherman, you need to read what I read. I put the word "IF" in there and a Very Happy at the end.

It was said in jest, for the most part.

But there is some truth to it.

Frank may not be a member of the democrat party but that's because you guys let him down. You're not liberal enough for him and if you don't belive me, read the Mountain party platform.

Frank is progressive liberal and yes, he's very partisan. Probably more so then you are. If anything, I think he may actually hold back some on this forum so some do not see just how partisan he is to the progressive liberal cause.

And from what I gather, I think he believes you fit more in with the MSP then you do the WV democrats.

As for ACORN, I think the fact that they're registering new people in inner cities and traditionally strong democrat areas and avoiding the traditionally strong Repbulican areas says enough about them.

But there will always be apologist who try and spin when it comes to groups like ACORN. And that's all it is as we all know exactly what ACORN is and what they're about.
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Post by Stephanie Fri Oct 31, 2008 7:52 am

Stephanie is well aware that voter registration forms must be turned in. Stephanie is also well aware that ACORN has been dumping thousands and thousands of voter registration forms at the last possible moment on officials across the country. ACORN is being investigated for fraud in several states and to suggest that this pattern of abuse is anything other than criminal activity geared at producing a certain outcome from this election is pure folly.
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Post by ziggy Fri Oct 31, 2008 10:07 am

Frank is progressive liberal and yes, he's very partisan. Probably more so then you are. If anything, I think he may actually hold back some on this forum so some do not see just how partisan he is to the progressive liberal cause.

Last week I voted for more Repblican candidates than either Mountain Party or Democratic Party candidates. If I am a partisan hack, does that mean that I am a Republican partisan hack?
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Post by Aaron Fri Oct 31, 2008 10:22 am

Lask week, Sarah Palin and I...

we all have a story Frank.
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Post by ziggy Fri Oct 31, 2008 11:03 am

You and Sara Palin can do whatever.

But I voted for Republicans for U.S. Senate, WV Secretary of Agriculture, Secretary of State, State Senate, House of Delegates, County Commission, Magistrate, and Presecuting Attorney.

Why does it give you such pain that I am not blinded by partisan loyalty?
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Post by Aaron Fri Oct 31, 2008 11:12 am

ziggy wrote:Why does it give you such pain that I am not blinded by partisan loyalty?

It doesn't pain me any at all.

Now whether I believe it or not...

But if you did vote for a Republican such as Jay Wolfe for the Senate seat, it isn't that you support the Republican Candidae as much as it is opposition to the democratic candidate.


Very Happy
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Post by ziggy Fri Oct 31, 2008 11:31 am

Duhh. Isn't that a lot of what elections and voting are about- voting either for some candidates and / or against other candidates?

Why do you think it's un-American to vote for or against individual candidates instead of political parties?
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Post by Aaron Fri Oct 31, 2008 11:52 am

And what party you voted for doesn't change my assessment, which I'm confident is pretty much spot on.

Right Frank.
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Post by Stephanie Fri Oct 31, 2008 6:31 pm

I'm proud of you, Frank! I'm not voting for either Jay though.
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Post by ziggy Fri Oct 31, 2008 7:42 pm

ziggy wrote:You and Sara Palin can do whatever.

But I voted for Republicans for U.S. Senate, WV Secretary of Agriculture, Secretary of State, State Senate, House of Delegates, County Commission, Magistrate, and Presecuting Attorney.

Oh, I forgot one.

Family Court Judge, too.
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