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Is atheism a religion or belief system?

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wvsasha
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Post by Ich bin Ala-awkbarph Sat Dec 27, 2008 10:47 pm

If the government is seeking to make our government atheistic, then is the government violating the establishment clause of the First Amendment?
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Post by TerryRC Sun Dec 28, 2008 9:50 am

Saying that atheism is a religion is like saying that NOT collecting coins is a hobby.

Make some sense, man!

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Post by Ich bin Ala-awkbarph Sun Dec 28, 2008 9:47 pm

TerryRC wrote:Saying that atheism is a religion is like saying that NOT collecting coins is a hobby.

Make some sense, man!

Why did atheists want to place displays along with religious symbols?
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Post by bmd Mon Dec 29, 2008 11:50 am

Armon Ayers wrote:
TerryRC wrote:Saying that atheism is a religion is like saying that NOT collecting coins is a hobby.

Make some sense, man!

Why did atheists want to place displays along with religious symbols?

Just to piss you off, TerryH. It really is all about you.
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Post by Ich bin Ala-awkbarph Mon Dec 29, 2008 12:21 pm

bmd wrote:
Armon Ayers wrote:
TerryRC wrote:Saying that atheism is a religion is like saying that NOT collecting coins is a hobby.

Make some sense, man!

Why did atheists want to place displays along with religious symbols?

Just to piss you off, TerryH. It really is all about you.

Oh yeah? What about you? (I'm rubber. You're glue. What you say bounces off me and sticks to you.)
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Post by Ich bin Ala-awkbarph Mon Dec 29, 2008 12:57 pm

TerryRC wrote:Saying that atheism is a religion is like saying that NOT collecting coins is a hobby.

Make some sense, man!

Okay:

LAW OF THE LAND
Court rules atheism a religion
Decides 1st Amendment protects prison inmate's right to start study group

A federal court of appeals ruled yesterday Wisconsin prison officials violated an inmate's rights because they did not treat atheism as a religion.

"Atheism is [the inmate's] religion, and the group that he wanted to start was religious in nature even though it expressly rejects a belief in a supreme being," the 7th Circuit Court of Appeals said.

The court decided the inmate's First Amendment rights were violated because the prison refused to allow him to create a study group for atheists.

The Supreme Court has said a religion need not be based on a belief in the existence of a supreme being. In the 1961 case of Torcaso v. Watkins, the court described "secular humanism" as a religion.

HOWEVER, if it makes you feel better, TerryRC, the complainant does not collect stamps either.
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Post by Keli Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:36 am

Armon Ayers wrote:
TerryRC wrote:Saying that atheism is a religion is like saying that NOT collecting coins is a hobby.

Make some sense, man!

Okay:

LAW OF THE LAND
Court rules atheism a religion
Decides 1st Amendment protects prison inmate's right to start study group

A federal court of appeals ruled yesterday Wisconsin prison officials violated an inmate's rights because they did not treat atheism as a religion.

"Atheism is [the inmate's] religion, and the group that he wanted to start was religious in nature even though it expressly rejects a belief in a supreme being," the 7th Circuit Court of Appeals said.

The court decided the inmate's First Amendment rights were violated because the prison refused to allow him to create a study group for atheists.

The Supreme Court has said a religion need not be based on a belief in the existence of a supreme being. In the 1961 case of Torcaso v. Watkins, the court described "secular humanism" as a religion.

HOWEVER, if it makes you feel better, TerryRC, the complainant does not collect stamps either.

So, bmd IS a religious man?
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Post by TerryRC Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:09 am

Why did atheists want to place displays along with religious symbols?

I don't know, I'm an agnostic. Why don't you ask the atheists.

So, have you no rational response to the statement I made in my previous post, namely,

"Saying that atheism is a religion is like saying that NOT collecting coins is a hobby"?

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Post by TerryRC Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:14 am

HOWEVER, if it makes you feel better, TerryRC, the complainant does not collect stamps either.

So the court is wrong. It isn't the first time.

If you had no hobbies (schizophrenia isn't a hobby, Armon/Keli), we would say you had "no hobbies". What person would call a lack of hobbies a "hobby"?

Somehow, however, you seem to think having no religion is a "religion".

I submit that argument is insane.

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Post by Ich bin Ala-awkbarph Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:39 am

TerryRC wrote:Somehow, however, you seem to think having no religion is a "religion".

I submit that argument is insane.

Tell that to the court. (Do you agree that it would be wrong for a court to overturn Prop 8 in Californica, as well?)
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Post by TerryRC Wed Dec 31, 2008 10:07 am

Tell that to the court. (Do you agree that it would be wrong for a court to overturn Prop 8 in Californica, as well?)

You didn't address my argument.

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Post by Ich bin Ala-awkbarph Wed Dec 31, 2008 10:24 am

TerryRC wrote:Tell that to the court. (Do you agree that it would be wrong for a court to overturn Prop 8 in Californica, as well?)

You didn't address my argument.

TerryRC,
I just know what the courts say: Having no religion is a religion and a person in prison--at least--has the right to worship his lack of religion.
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Post by wvsasha Wed Dec 31, 2008 1:39 pm

A sincerely held set of beliefs, values and attitudes; beliefs and opinions concerning the existence, nature and worship of a Supreme Being, supernatural force or god(s).


More definitions for religion found here

I found many definitions and examples for "religion". Most seem to center around the belief & worship in/of a higher being. I would submit that atheism is not a religion but any group that gathers to "preach to their particular choir on agreed themes/messages with emotions that are usually attributed to established religions" runs the risk of being confused with a religion.

Which is i think the point of this particular thread.

As an atheist - I enjoy discussing religion more so with people who are still religious than with other atheists - I get tired of preaching to the choir. ;-) However, I do find that meeting with like-minded people relaxing and refreshing in the way that others find going to church on sunday mornings to refresh their spirits. It is good to be where you are accepted completely with no concerns about someone trying to "convert" you or "save" you.

The prisoner in question absolutely should have had the right to create his own support group and if the only way to get it was to cry foul on religious grounds, then so be it.

I wonder how many suicidal bombers/serial killers/rapists/etc were atheists?
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Post by Ich bin Ala-awkbarph Wed Dec 31, 2008 1:50 pm

wvsasha wrote:I wonder how many suicidal bombers/serial killers/rapists/etc were atheists?

Hitler was an atheist...wasn't he?
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Post by wvsasha Wed Dec 31, 2008 1:53 pm

Armon Ayers wrote:
wvsasha wrote:I wonder how many suicidal bombers/serial killers/rapists/etc were atheists?

Hitler was an atheist...wasn't he?


I don't know....was he?

http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/quotes_hitler.html
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Post by Aaron Wed Dec 31, 2008 1:59 pm

No, Hitler was not an atheist. While his exact religious beliefs might be debatable, he was a believer in Christianity and the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

If anything, he used religion and the notion that he was doing the will of God as an excuse for his attempted extermination of the Jewish race.

But then I'm sure, whether you believe it or not, you're aware of all of this, as you are aware of the information on Sasha's link.
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Post by SheikBen Wed Dec 31, 2008 6:09 pm

TerryRC wrote:Saying that atheism is a religion is like saying that NOT collecting coins is a hobby.

Make some sense, man!

I don't agree with your analogy. It would be one thing if someone did NOT collect coins and left alone people who did.

That people who do NOT collect coins want people who do collect coins to do so outside of the public square proves, wait, no that doesn't happen, now does it:)?

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Post by Stephanie Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:40 pm

As an atheist - I enjoy discussing religion more so with people who are still religious than with other atheists - I get tired of preaching to the choir. ;-) However, I do find that meeting with like-minded people relaxing and refreshing in the way that others find going to church on sunday mornings to refresh their spirits. It is good to be where you are accepted completely with no concerns about someone trying to "convert" you or "save" you.

It can be kind of lonely being agnostic. We get no respect and everybody, atheists included, try converting us sooner or later.
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Post by Aaron Thu Jan 01, 2009 2:39 am

What if everyone's right Stephanie?
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Post by TerryRC Thu Jan 01, 2009 10:55 am

I don't agree with your analogy. It would be one thing if someone did NOT collect coins and left alone people who did.

That people who do NOT collect coins want people who do collect coins to do so outside of the public square proves, wait, no that doesn't happen, now does it:)?


Wait a moment, Sheik.

How often do atheists knock on your door spreading their "religion"?

How often do militant atheists just come up to you out of the blue and rave?

It is almost always in response to an action perpetrated by a religionist.

My analogy is spot on. Atheism is no more a religion than NOT collecting stamps is a hobby.

Also, I notice Keli doesn't rave about "activist judges" when their ruling suits his purposes.

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Post by Stephanie Thu Jan 01, 2009 12:58 pm

Who is everyone? If the Christians are "right" the Buddhists and the pagans etc are wrong.
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Post by Aaron Thu Jan 01, 2009 12:59 pm

Why?

What is there to say that an all knowing God cannot have one set of rules for Christians and another for Muslims, a third for Hindu's and a 4th for the next group and on and on and on down the line?
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Post by Stephanie Thu Jan 01, 2009 1:18 pm

That still wouldn't allow for all religions to be correct. The rules could be different, sure. Yet there is either one and only one god or there isn't. Either there is one and only one god and Jesus Christ was the messiah, or he wasn't.

They can't all be "right".
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Post by ziggy Thu Jan 01, 2009 5:12 pm

Stephanie wrote:That still wouldn't allow for all religions to be correct. The rules could be different, sure. Yet there is either one and only one god or there isn't. Either there is one and only one god and Jesus Christ was the messiah, or he wasn't.

They can't all be "right".

But they can all be "wrong".
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Post by Aaron Thu Jan 01, 2009 5:28 pm

Stephanie wrote:That still wouldn't allow for all religions to be correct. The rules could be different, sure. Yet there is either one and only one god or there isn't. Either there is one and only one god and Jesus Christ was the messiah, or he wasn't.

They can't all be "right".

Why not? Why couldn't a One True God send Jesus for the Christians, Muhommad for the Muslims, Buddah for the Buddahist, a walking porterhouse for the Hindus and so on and on for all of the 22 major religions.

Why couldn't he know that not all man would believe the same thing, thus he gave each what they NEEDED to believe in?
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