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HB 4076 makes me laugh.

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Aaron
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Post by Aaron Fri Mar 07, 2008 8:25 pm

Your options include our distinguished Governor. They also include Dale Martin and Brady Paxton, both whom serve as your representatives if I'm not mistaken. I would also contact this one committee chair were I you. Granted I'm not near as fart a smeller as you are but I do belive committee's meet throughout the year and you've always got special sessions if there are any although those are usually limited to the scope of what they were called for. But then, being as smart as you are, you knew that, right!!!

They could be in session year round and if she doesn't want it to come up for a vote, it's not coming up for a vote.
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Post by Stephanie Fri Mar 07, 2008 10:21 pm

Aaron wrote:Your options include our distinguished Governor. They also include Dale Martin and Brady Paxton, both whom serve as your representatives if I'm not mistaken. I would also contact this one committee chair were I you. Granted I'm not near as fart a smeller as you are but I do belive committee's meet throughout the year and you've always got special sessions if there are any although those are usually limited to the scope of what they were called for. But then, being as smart as you are, you knew that, right!!!

They could be in session year round and if she doesn't want it to come up for a vote, it's not coming up for a vote.

With the help of Senator Barnes, a meeting is being set up with the governor and a protest will be held on the day of that meeting, which is tentatively set for next Friday. Like I said before, we're not letting this die quietly.
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Post by SamCogar Sat Mar 08, 2008 7:17 am

Stephanie wrote:I do know, however, that the WV legislature should have passes legislation requiring insurers to cover the treatment of autism spectrum disorders, as HB 4091 and SB 146 would have done.

In your opinion the REAL ID Act is Constitutional, there are many who disagree with you. In any event, by your own admission, there are unfunded & unConstitutional federal mandates being rammed down the throats of the citizens of WV. We should refuse to comply with them and the money saved could be spent more effectively and more appropriately on services and programs that will improve the lives of West Virginians and lower taxes to boot.

OH GOOD GRIEF, .........Stephanie.

Just what good would it do to require insurers to cover the treatment of autism spectrum disorders ........... when probably 98% of the kids diagnosed with said do not have an insurance provider, .......... other than the Government itself via Federal and State programs?

And “saving money that could be spent more effectively and more appropriately on services and programs”, …….. GIMME A DOUBLE BREAK.

Steph, the current DHHS budget is already more than the rest of the State’s budget ……. and neither of them DISCLOSES all the Federal dollar$ that are spent on those programs.

They cancelled the “Ritalin program” …….. and everyone involved is bitching because of lo$$ of million$ of dollars. Especially the parents, they loved those monthly checks.

Steph, EDUCATION ……. is the ONLY THING …….. that will improve the lives of West Virginians and lower taxes to boot.

I would say that 98% of the “learning disabled problems” are the result of illegal drug use …….. and incest.

And the more funding you provide for those LD problems ......... the more LD problems you are going to create. Ya can't just keep buying "more buckets" to catch the increasing "drips" through the roof ....... because soon they will overflow and start "dripping" into the basement.

And 98% of all Autism Spectrum Disorders ……. is nothing more than “a juvenile Carpal Tunnel Disorder”.

The "parasites" spend 90% of their "awake hours" trying to figure out ways to get "taxpayer funding" to support their lifestyle and they do it mostly by creating "imaginary problems" .......... and then propose solutions for said.

And just as soon as one (1) parasite gets a "wee little bit of taxpayer money" ......... all the parasites start jumping onto that "money train" and it soon becomes MILLIONS N' MILLIONS of taxpayer dollars, to wit:

What ever happened to carpal tunnel?

Trendy techno malady has eased, but we've already got a new ache

Remember when half your co-workers complained of “carpal tunnel” and wrist braces were the fashionable office accessory?

Cases of carpal tunnel syndrome, the white-collar epidemic of the '90s, have plummeted in recent years, according to labor statistics. What happened? Did all those ergonomic keyboards cure us of our aches and pains or is something else going on?

Something else is going on.

For one thing, the lumping of nearly every patient with an achy arm into the carpal tunnel category has diminished, and other trendy, multisyllabic diagnoses such as repetitive stress syndrome (RSS), cumulative trauma disorder (CTD) and musculoskeletal disease (MSD) are filling the gap. Secondly, measures taken in the workplace — job rotation, stretch breaks and attention to ergonomics have indeed had an effect — even if what had been labeled carpal tunnel was in reality plain old tendonitis, bursitis, spasm, or even muscular lack of conditioning.

Unquestionably, workers engaged in repetitive work many hours each day experience a variety of musculoskeletal pains. So do gardeners, waitresses and baseball players. That does not mean the work causes the problem. Association is different from causation. Just because chest pain often happens in cold weather does not mean winter causes heart disease.

Explosion of acronyms
There is little question that since use of computers has proliferated both in and out of the home, musculoskeletal problems have been common in the American workplace. But whether you call it carpal tunnel, RSS, CTD, MSD, or any other acronym, this vague, poorly defined, almost impossible to prove constellations of symptoms is responsible for lots of lost work time and hefty medical bills.

Doctors have never been entirely comfortable with these types of labels. That’s because such an eponym tries to assign a specific diagnosis to subjective complaints of pain rather than something the practitioner can observe or demonstrate. Putting a name to what is essentially an overuse problem leads the patient to believe there is serious injury, giving the condition a magnitude often undeserved, rather than recognizing it as one of the aches periodically experienced by each of us.

Not surprisingly, it has been a short leap to the belief that office work somehow “caused” the problem and that it should be compensable. Right or wrong, the upside is that it brought attention to ergonomics issues at the office, and these improvements have reduced our aches and pains no matter what they’re called.

Thumb’s up?
So now that carpal tunnel is no longer the plague of cubicle workers everywhere, what’s our next pain point likely to be? The thumb. Yes, “Blackberry thumb” — the trendy malady of the text-messaging set.

There is no question that thumb problems are on the rise, particularly in the basal joint, the joint at the thumb closest to the wrist. This joint has long been vulnerable to wear and tear as we age. But while doctors used to just see this in a patient’s dominant hand, we’re now seeing it at an earlier age, and in both dominant and non-dominant hands. But how will you know when “Blackberry thumb” has become the next white-collar epidemic? Probably when you start spotting thumb braces around the office.


Dr. Edward V. Craig is Attending Surgeon at the Hospital for Special Surgery in New York City and Professor of Clinical Orthopedic Surgery at Cornell Medical School.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23502573/

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Post by ohio county Sat Mar 08, 2008 11:35 am

If there were more time available, those of us who support this legislation would be in a far better position to get it passed.

Maybe that's by design... As I mentioned before, if the Rules Committee makes multiple committee assignments, that is a sign that the legislation is slated for a descent into obscurity and the Island of Forgotten Legislation.

I applaud your civic involvement. Seriously. Years of watchng the Legislature both from a distance and from a bird's eye view have made me very cynical.

The lawyers rule the Judiciary Committees and the whole shooting match is run by a ragtag collection of bought-and-paid-for hacks. In a perfect world, I'd be inclined to agree with you. But this is West Virginia...
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Post by ziggy Sat Mar 08, 2008 2:20 pm

OC, is it the the rules committee or the House and Senate leaders who decide to which committees bills are assigned?
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Post by ohio county Sat Mar 08, 2008 2:57 pm

In 1973 as a drug-addled fourth year college freshman I had the pleasure of presenting a questionaire to the WV Senate Finance Committee. At that time, Senator Holliday, D-Fayette, indicated that committee assignments were handled through the Rules Committee. Largely as a result of his response I got a B. The A went to a fellow named Matt Foreman. If you Google Matt Foreman today you will get results relative to the Lesbian, Gay, Bi, Whatever Alliance. He is the national chairman. Coincidence? I think not.
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Post by Aaron Sat Mar 08, 2008 3:15 pm

ziggy wrote:OC, is it the the rules committee or the House and Senate leaders who decide to which committees bills are assigned?

Is there a difference?

Senate President:
Earl Ray Tomblin-Rules Committee

President Pro Tempore:
William R. Sharpe Jr.-Rules Committee

Majority Leader:
H. Truman Chafin-Rules Committee

Majority Whip:
Billy Wayne Bailey
Minority Leader:
Don Caruth-Rules Committee

Minority Whip:
Clark S. Barnes

HOUSE LEADERSHIP
Speaker of the House:
Richard Thompson-Rules Committee

Speaker Pro Tempore:
Ron Fragale-Rules Committee

Majority Leader:
Joe DeLong-Rules Committee

Majority Whip:
Mike Caputo-Rules Committee

Assistant Majority Whips:
Sam J. Argento
Jeff Eldridge
Timothy R. Ennis
Tim Miley
Clif Moore
Don Perdue
David Pethtel
Sharon Spencer
Jack Yost
Minority Leader:
Tim Armstead
Minority Whip:
Larry Border
Assistant Minority Whip:
Patti Eagloski Schoen
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Post by ohio county Sat Mar 08, 2008 3:36 pm

I once heard Bill Sharpe in a Finance Committee hearing. They were talking about the cost of the brown paper bags that the ABCC used to package bottles of liquor. Dick Barber, who later went to prison, was Commissioner. Sharpe said, "Why do you keep talking about the cost of bags? Don't you people put liquor in bottles anymore?".
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Post by ziggy Sat Mar 08, 2008 4:14 pm

He isn't sometimes called Bill Notso Sharpe for nothin'.
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Post by ziggy Sat Mar 08, 2008 4:23 pm

After the bill is numbered, the President of the Senate or the Speaker of the House of Delegates assigns the bill to a committee or committees to be considered. When the bill is formally introduced on the floor of the chamber, the bill number and the committee reference(s) are announced.

http://www.legis.state.wv.us/Educational/Bill_Becomes_Law/Bill_Becomes_Law.cfm
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Post by Stephanie Sat Mar 08, 2008 6:32 pm

SamCogar wrote:
Stephanie wrote:I do know, however, that the WV legislature should have passes legislation requiring insurers to cover the treatment of autism spectrum disorders, as HB 4091 and SB 146 would have done.

In your opinion the REAL ID Act is Constitutional, there are many who disagree with you. In any event, by your own admission, there are unfunded & unConstitutional federal mandates being rammed down the throats of the citizens of WV. We should refuse to comply with them and the money saved could be spent more effectively and more appropriately on services and programs that will improve the lives of West Virginians and lower taxes to boot.

OH GOOD GRIEF, .........Stephanie.

Just what good would it do to require insurers to cover the treatment of autism spectrum disorders ........... when probably 98% of the kids diagnosed with said do not have an insurance provider, .......... other than the Government itself via Federal and State programs?

And “saving money that could be spent more effectively and more appropriately on services and programs”, …….. GIMME A DOUBLE BREAK.

Steph, the current DHHS budget is already more than the rest of the State’s budget ……. and neither of them DISCLOSES all the Federal dollar$ that are spent on those programs.

They cancelled the “Ritalin program” …….. and everyone involved is bitching because of lo$$ of million$ of dollars. Especially the parents, they loved those monthly checks.

Steph, EDUCATION ……. is the ONLY THING …….. that will improve the lives of West Virginians and lower taxes to boot.

I would say that 98% of the “learning disabled problems” are the result of illegal drug use …….. and incest.

And the more funding you provide for those LD problems ......... the more LD problems you are going to create. Ya can't just keep buying "more buckets" to catch the increasing "drips" through the roof ....... because soon they will overflow and start "dripping" into the basement.

And 98% of all Autism Spectrum Disorders ……. is nothing more than “a juvenile Carpal Tunnel Disorder”.

The "parasites" spend 90% of their "awake hours" trying to figure out ways to get "taxpayer funding" to support their lifestyle and they do it mostly by creating "imaginary problems" .......... and then propose solutions for said.

And just as soon as one (1) parasite gets a "wee little bit of taxpayer money" ......... all the parasites start jumping onto that "money train" and it soon becomes MILLIONS N' MILLIONS of taxpayer dollars, to wit:

What ever happened to carpal tunnel?

Trendy techno malady has eased, but we've already got a new ache

Remember when half your co-workers complained of “carpal tunnel” and wrist braces were the fashionable office accessory?

Cases of carpal tunnel syndrome, the white-collar epidemic of the '90s, have plummeted in recent years, according to labor statistics. What happened? Did all those ergonomic keyboards cure us of our aches and pains or is something else going on?

Something else is going on.

For one thing, the lumping of nearly every patient with an achy arm into the carpal tunnel category has diminished, and other trendy, multisyllabic diagnoses such as repetitive stress syndrome (RSS), cumulative trauma disorder (CTD) and musculoskeletal disease (MSD) are filling the gap. Secondly, measures taken in the workplace — job rotation, stretch breaks and attention to ergonomics have indeed had an effect — even if what had been labeled carpal tunnel was in reality plain old tendonitis, bursitis, spasm, or even muscular lack of conditioning.

Unquestionably, workers engaged in repetitive work many hours each day experience a variety of musculoskeletal pains. So do gardeners, waitresses and baseball players. That does not mean the work causes the problem. Association is different from causation. Just because chest pain often happens in cold weather does not mean winter causes heart disease.

Explosion of acronyms
There is little question that since use of computers has proliferated both in and out of the home, musculoskeletal problems have been common in the American workplace. But whether you call it carpal tunnel, RSS, CTD, MSD, or any other acronym, this vague, poorly defined, almost impossible to prove constellations of symptoms is responsible for lots of lost work time and hefty medical bills.

Doctors have never been entirely comfortable with these types of labels. That’s because such an eponym tries to assign a specific diagnosis to subjective complaints of pain rather than something the practitioner can observe or demonstrate. Putting a name to what is essentially an overuse problem leads the patient to believe there is serious injury, giving the condition a magnitude often undeserved, rather than recognizing it as one of the aches periodically experienced by each of us.

Not surprisingly, it has been a short leap to the belief that office work somehow “caused” the problem and that it should be compensable. Right or wrong, the upside is that it brought attention to ergonomics issues at the office, and these improvements have reduced our aches and pains no matter what they’re called.

Thumb’s up?
So now that carpal tunnel is no longer the plague of cubicle workers everywhere, what’s our next pain point likely to be? The thumb. Yes, “Blackberry thumb” — the trendy malady of the text-messaging set.

There is no question that thumb problems are on the rise, particularly in the basal joint, the joint at the thumb closest to the wrist. This joint has long been vulnerable to wear and tear as we age. But while doctors used to just see this in a patient’s dominant hand, we’re now seeing it at an earlier age, and in both dominant and non-dominant hands. But how will you know when “Blackberry thumb” has become the next white-collar epidemic? Probably when you start spotting thumb braces around the office.


Dr. Edward V. Craig is Attending Surgeon at the Hospital for Special Surgery in New York City and Professor of Clinical Orthopedic Surgery at Cornell Medical School.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23502573/

Sam,

I don't have the time at this moment to go into depth about what I think of your response. You seem to be living in some fantasy land where life would be perfect if only everyone would live and behave as you want them to.

Autism is a real affliction. While my family, including my extended family, has so far been lucky enough to be spared the tradgedy of this affliction, that doesn't mean I deny its existance. It also doesn't mean I haven't spent time with autistic children and witnessed firsthand the devastation it can bring.

I don't know why there has been such a dramatic increase in autism in recent years. I do recognize it is a genuine problem. I'm convinced that some of the increase is due to better diagnosis. Drug use may have some impact on these numbers, but I don't think that is the primary cause. I doubt incest has a damn thing to do with it.

FYI.....the local schools are required under IDEA to provide free and appropriate services for autistic children. This legislation would require private insurers to cover treatment and services for autism. If anything, it would save the government money because things the schools are now required to provide under IDEA would be paid for by health insurance companies.

Sam, I like you. You know I am genuinely fond of you. I just don't understand your apparent lack of empathy. I realize you are a "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" kind of guy and I respect that. However if a person has a medical insurance policy it seems reasonble to me to require that health insurer to cover their medical expenses. This isn't about a free ride or a handout, it's about the insurance industry being responsive and accountable.
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Post by Stephanie Sat Mar 08, 2008 7:00 pm

ohio county wrote:
If there were more time available, those of us who support this legislation would be in a far better position to get it passed.

Maybe that's by design... As I mentioned before, if the Rules Committee makes multiple committee assignments, that is a sign that the legislation is slated for a descent into obscurity and the Island of Forgotten Legislation.

I applaud your civic involvement. Seriously. Years of watchng the Legislature both from a distance and from a bird's eye view have made me very cynical.

The lawyers rule the Judiciary Committees and the whole shooting match is run by a ragtag collection of bought-and-paid-for hacks. In a perfect world, I'd be inclined to agree with you. But this is West Virginia...

I don't know if you're giving me too much credit, or not enough. I am not leading or organizing this charge. I am making an effort though, and will help Tracy and others who are more involved anyway I can.

I come from RI, home of Ed DiPrete, Vincent "Buddy" Cianci, and a long line of corrupt Speakers of the House. I guess I'm used to the bought and paid for thing. I do know that if people make enough noise about an issue that issue typically does get attention. If we sit back and say "Oh well, I guess we're stuck" we will truly be screwed.

I may lose the battle, but I'm not going to do nothing while the brain-drain down there in Charleston allows my privacy and my liberties to be eviscerated by Big Brother. It just isn't in my nature, I guess.
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Post by ohio county Mon Mar 10, 2008 6:34 am

I don't know if you're giving me too much credit, or not enough.

Not enough. If I had been giving you enough credit I would have stopped posting. Because you are entirely correct: if people make enough noise the shadowy powers behind the throne will see that the measures get to the floor for a vote.
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Post by Stephanie Mon Mar 10, 2008 9:14 am

ohio county wrote:
I don't know if you're giving me too much credit, or not enough.

Not enough. If I had been giving you enough credit I would have stopped posting. Because you are entirely correct: if people make enough noise the shadowy powers behind the throne will see that the measures get to the floor for a vote.

Ah, it all sucks. Our ragtag group has been very unsuccessful. The senator trying assist us can't even get the governor to return his calls. This has me recalling an incident from about a year ago when a certain group decided to have a "sit-in" or other such protest in Manchin's office.

Desperate times call for desperate measures but I've never been in handcuffs and don't relish the thought of starting now. In any event, apparently we are not making "enough" noise.
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Post by SheikBen Mon Mar 10, 2008 1:06 pm

Darn the absence of a Bastille to storm!

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Post by Cato Mon Mar 10, 2008 8:12 pm

Stephanie wrote:
ohio county wrote:
I don't know if you're giving me too much credit, or not enough.

Not enough. If I had been giving you enough credit I would have stopped posting. Because you are entirely correct: if people make enough noise the shadowy powers behind the throne will see that the measures get to the floor for a vote.

Ah, it all sucks. Our ragtag group has been very unsuccessful. The senator trying assist us can't even get the governor to return his calls. This has me recalling an incident from about a year ago when a certain group decided to have a "sit-in" or other such protest in Manchin's office.

Desperate times call for desperate measures but I've never been in handcuffs and don't relish the thought of starting now. In any event, apparently we are not making "enough" noise.

You want Manchin's attention, hit the jerk where it hurts, in the votes. Buy some newpaper time and begin a compaign on how Manchin won't even talk to you. Make it very public. It won't take him long to get in contact with you.

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Post by Stephanie Mon Mar 10, 2008 9:24 pm

For those of you who care to join us, here is the info on Friday:

Senator Barnes, Author of SB248 against West Virginia implementing 'The Real ID Act of 2005' has set up a meeting to show support for legislation against Real ID in West Virginia and to create public awareness about Real ID.
We hope to pack the halls of the state capitol building with as many opponents to Real ID as we can muster. Senator Barnes has said that some senators, and the Commissioner of the DMV are expected to attend and the Governor has been requested to attend,
but he has not yet confirmed. The press will also be made aware. Please attend if at all possible, numbers mean everything. Bring your family, your friends and your neighbors. Spread this far and wide. Tell your local press about it.
the rally will begin to gather at 1:30pm Friday, March 14th 2008 at the rotunda (under the dome) of the State Capitol. The meeting begins at 2:30 PM in the Governors conference Room. We need to be heard loud and clear.
Feel free to bring anti-Real ID signs, etc.

Montana Governor Brian Schweitzer in an interview about Real ID follows: Notice he said that there was not one discenting vote in the Montana legislature when they passed their bill into law against the Real ID. What is wrong with our legislature and Governor?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72wpkN794rM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QDHlakUUiY

Rep. Ron Paul on the Real ID:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zLqCfLQlIk

New Hampshire anti-Real ID protest/rally:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeE3iB90KeE

Real ID = Real Nightmare:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XObbEwI6P4

National ID card and chip:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwTa0jsWU1Y



Tracy

'It does not take a majority to prevail... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men.'
Samuel Adams
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Post by Aaron Mon Mar 10, 2008 9:46 pm

I'm confused. How did we get from an autism bill to the Real ID?
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Post by Stephanie Mon Mar 10, 2008 9:53 pm

The same way we got from legislative pay raises, the original topic of this thread, to the autism bill.
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Post by Aaron Tue Mar 11, 2008 7:52 am

Stephanie wrote:The same way we got from legislative pay raises, the original topic of this thread, to the autism bill.

No, your talking about pay raises which led to talking about the amount of time Legislatures were in session and you posted the naive thinking that if they were in session longer, they would have time for your bill which Jimmy and I both pointed out is not the case at which point you started conversing about how you and others were trying to get something done on the autism bill.

There was a little bit of a link in all of that. Then out of the blue you posted this real ID stuff.
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Post by Stephanie Tue Mar 11, 2008 10:01 am

I never claimed to be trying to get anything done with the autism bill, unless I mistakenly used the wrong bill number. I don't think this is bothering Cato, or anyone else but you. However, I will begin a new thread and post information about the rally. Smile
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Post by Aaron Tue Mar 11, 2008 10:04 am

Stephanie wrote:I never claimed to be trying to get anything done with the autism bill, unless I mistakenly used the wrong bill number. I don't think this is bothering Cato, or anyone else but you. However, I will begin a new thread and post information about the rally. Smile

It's not bothering me at all. I go where the conversation goes. I was just curious.

I listened to the distinguished former Presidential candidate wailing about liberties and I'm still curious, exacly/specifically what liberties are we as Americans losing with the real ID? I ask you once but about all you could come up with was the same generalized statements everyone else uses and frankly, I just don't see it. Maybe if you could possibly come up with something specific considering I did when I showed how displaying identification to enter an airline was a constitutionally granted responsibility of the federal government.
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HB 4076 makes me laugh. - Page 3 Empty Re: HB 4076 makes me laugh.

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