Why Domestic Courts are Ineffective Foreign Policy Tools

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Why Domestic Courts are Ineffective Foreign Policy Tools

Post by ohio county on Sat Aug 21, 2010 3:37 am

http://www.investigativeproject.org/blog/2010/08/pirate-fail-leads-to-dismissal-of-charges

Charges dismissed against Somali pirates charged with firing on U.S. Navy vessel. The judge found that unless pirates are successful no charges can be filed. The lesson: take no prisoners or keep your prisoners out of federal courts?

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Re: Why Domestic Courts are Ineffective Foreign Policy Tools

Post by SamCogar on Sat Aug 21, 2010 7:41 am

.


"take no prisoners"


You are exactly right, Jim.

Put a big "hurtin" on the Defense Lawyer's revenue source.

"Shoot um again", ...... make sure they are dead, ...... save the taxpayers a lot of money.


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Re: Why Domestic Courts are Ineffective Foreign Policy Tools

Post by Aaron on Sat Aug 21, 2010 8:08 am

If I'm not mistaken, the punishment for piracy has historically been death.

I agree, why bother bringing them to court and waste taxpayer money to ensure foreign nationals, committing an act outside the jurisdiction of a United States of America have access to our freedoms and rights so a judge can find the requirement for them to be charges was a successful act? Kill them on the high seas and you will ensure they committ no more acts of piracy.

And if you kill enough of them, eventually their countrymen will conclude that it is not a good idea to attack Americans in international waters.
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Re: Why Domestic Courts are Ineffective Foreign Policy Tools

Post by ziggy on Sun Aug 22, 2010 11:27 am

These guys are not off the hook yet:

From the referenced article:

The men were charged with opening fire on the U.S.S. Ashland, a warship that supports amphibious operations. The six men, and a group of five other Somalis captured after allegedly firing on another U.S. warship, were brought to Norfolk, Virginia, where they were charged with the attacks. Commenting on the arrests at the time, U.S. Attorney Neil MacBride explained:

"since the earliest days of this country, piracy has been a serious crime…privacy threatens human lives and disrupts international commerce. When pirates attack U.S. vessels by force, they must face severe consequences."

Following their arrest, all of the men pled not guilty and were awaiting a trial which was expected to begin in September. But during pre-trial proceedings, Judge Jackson dismissed the piracy charges, concluding that the U.S. government had failed to make a reasonable case that the men's actions amounted to piracy.

Explaining his reasoning, U.S. District Judge Raymond Jackson stated:

"the court finds that the government has failed to establish that any unauthorized acts of violence or aggression committed on the high seas constitutes piracy as defined by the law of nations."

To be held criminal liable for piracy under the court's ruling, the attack must succeed. Since the Somali pirates in this case were wildly unsuccessful, charges of piracy were improper in the eyes of the court.

The men still face seven other charges related to the attack. If convicted, they could face up to 35 years in prison.

In law, piracy has a specific definition- like 1st degree murder has a specific definition. If with premeditation I shoot at someone to kill, but miss my target and hit them in the big toe instead of their heart, it is not 1st degree murder.

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Re: Why Domestic Courts are Ineffective Foreign Policy Tools

Post by Aaron on Sun Aug 22, 2010 12:05 pm

What you are not charged with is assult. You are charged with attempted murder. Historically, "attempted" piracy falls under the guidelines of piracy and the charge and punishment is the same.

What the Navy should have done was kill them all. And under your anaology, they would have been guilty of nothing as one still has the right in most cases to defend themself when they are directly attacked. Granted, liberals are trying to rob Americans of that right by stating that it has to be a direct attack with no other alternative but for now, we can still defend.
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Re: Why Domestic Courts are Ineffective Foreign Policy Tools

Post by ziggy on Sun Aug 22, 2010 12:31 pm

What the Navy should have done was kill them all.

I think I agree- if the situation on the high seas was as we understand it to be.

And under your anaology, they would have been guilty of nothing as one still has the right in most cases to defend themself when they are directly attacked.

Again, I agree- based on what we know.

But, the fact is that, having brought them to the American Courts, we have to deal with the law the way it is- not as wannabe judge, jurors and executioners all in one would prefer.


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Re: Why Domestic Courts are Ineffective Foreign Policy Tools

Post by ziggy on Sun Aug 22, 2010 12:46 pm

My nephews' ship, the USS Cape St. George, was attacked in the Gulf of Aden, I think it was, 4 or 5 years ago. Navy gunners killed one of the attackers and wounded several others. And that was OK with me.

That does not mean that I support the USS Cape St. George being where it was when it was. But, no matter where the elephant is, I don't expect it to let a few pissants bring it to its knees.
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Re: Why Domestic Courts are Ineffective Foreign Policy Tools

Post by Aaron on Sun Aug 22, 2010 5:59 pm

American chartered ships sail in international waters, thus our Navy has the authority to sail in the same international waters to protect American interest. I have no problem with that.
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