Peace trhough strength

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Peace trhough strength

Post by Ich bin Ala-awkbarph on Tue Nov 16, 2010 7:47 am

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Re: Peace trhough strength

Post by Stephanie on Tue Nov 16, 2010 10:11 am

Yeah, they've done such an outstanding job the past couple of millennia!

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Re: Peace trhough strength

Post by SheikBen on Fri Nov 26, 2010 10:05 am

Stephanie,

At this very moment, it is striking that only in Indonesia and two small countries does a Muslim majority exist with a Freedom House score of 1 (meaning democratic). Officially atheist North Korea and China do not bare so well, either. There are the irreligious "post-Christian" countries of France and the Scandinavian countries, and we'll see how long their freedoms last (hopefully long, but history warns us loudly).

Obviously there are Christians and Jews who act like idiots, and I surely agree that Israel has practiced foolishness now and in ages past. As an agnostic, however, do you really think you would be afforded more freedoms in Saudi Arabia than you would in Israel?

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Re: Peace trhough strength

Post by Stephanie on Fri Nov 26, 2010 2:19 pm

As an agnostic, however, do you really think you would be afforded more freedoms in Saudi Arabia than you would in Israel?.

I don't believe I would have much in the way of rights in either nation.

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Re: Peace trhough strength

Post by SheikBen on Fri Nov 26, 2010 10:41 pm

I'm quite certain you'd be much more free in Israel than in Saudi Arabia. I guarantee you that you would have an easier time blaspheming Yahweh in Israel than Allah in Mecca.


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Re: Peace trhough strength

Post by Stephanie on Fri Nov 26, 2010 10:49 pm

Do you view Israel as a "peaceful nation"?

Do you view the USA as a "Christian" nation? Just how peaceful do you consider our nation to be?

The simple fact of the matter is Christian governments have been waging wars and oppressing people for 2 thousand years. The lone "Jewish" state has always waged war and oppressed people.


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Re: Peace trhough strength

Post by Ich bin Ala-awkbarph on Fri Dec 03, 2010 7:03 am

Stephanie wrote:Do you view Israel as a "peaceful nation"?

Do you view the USA as a "Christian" nation? Just how peaceful do you consider our nation to be?

The simple fact of the matter is Christian governments have been waging wars and oppressing people for 2 thousand years. The lone "Jewish" state has always waged war and oppressed people.


Preach it, sister!
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Re: Peace trhough strength

Post by Cato on Fri Dec 03, 2010 9:14 am

Stephanie wrote: Do you view Israel as a "peaceful nation"?

Israel is a nation the seeks to live peacefully, however, they have to face the reality of their situation. That situation is that their neighbors seek their destuction.

Stephanie wrote:Do you view the USA as a "Christian" nation? Just how peaceful do you consider our nation to be?

The United States is a nation in which the majority of people are Christian. It is not a Christian nation however, simply because we are not a theocracy.

You ask are we a peaceful people and that answer is yes. However, there are certain realities that have to be faced. First, no society is perfect, nor is any government perfect, so yes, we've made many errors in our dealings with foreign governments. Some of those have been idiotic and grave. Secondly, the world is a very dangerous place. Like it or not there are people and nations that would be more than happy to see this nation fall. Thirdly, Not every nation has the same moral values when it comes to liberty and life as we are suppose to honor.

Getting back to our government making errors, as I said nobody is perfect, nor is any leaders or group of leaders. We have made our share of mistakes and stuck our nose where it didnt' belong, I admit that. While some of those mistakes have been made in the name of repaing an compaign promise, many have been made in the name of neutralizing a threat, before the threat had a chance to harm this nation. Afterall, the defence of this nation is the catamount responsibility of our leaders, or it suppose to be anyways.

Soemtimes I think you confuse peace with submission. They aren't the samething. Submission is the willingness to give up your liberty to live as without conflict. Submission is little more than living in fear and doing nothing about it. Peace is living as you desire with out conflict and without fear. The only way peace can ever be preserved is through strenght. A nation that desire to live in peace has to be strong enough to defend that peace and willing to never sacrifice peace or liberty to avoid conflict.

Stephanie wrote:The simple fact of the matter is Christian governments have been waging wars and oppressing people for 2 thousand years. The lone "Jewish" state has always waged war and oppressed people.


First, I get so tired of you and others citing the use of religion as a means of justification for war and then blaming the religion itself. You need to spend some time with Machivilli. He explains how religion can and is used to justify violence. The question to be answered is of course does that make Christainity evil or does it make those who misuse it evil. If you say that it makes Christianity evil then you had better be prepared to say that pistols are evil becaus ethey are used to commit murder and that cars are evil because people drive them while intoxicated.

Secondly, yes, so called Christian nations have oppressed people as has Israel, but so hasnt' atheistic China, Myammar, North Korea, and many others. Additionally, I don't think you'd be too happy living in Saudi Arabia or Iran where people just want to be free but have to fear the government every step of the way.

Finally, your statement proves little, except how bias you have become to christainity.

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Re: Peace trhough strength

Post by Stephanie on Fri Dec 03, 2010 9:57 am

First, I get so tired of you and others citing the use of religion as a means of justification for war and then blaming the religion itself. You need to spend some time with Machivilli. He explains how religion can and is used to justify violence. The question to be answered is of course does that make Islam evil or does it make those who misuse it evil. If you say that it makes Christianity evil then you had better be prepared to say that pistols are evil becaus ethey are used to commit murder and that cars are evil because people drive them while intoxicated.

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Re: Peace trhough strength

Post by Cato on Fri Dec 03, 2010 10:38 am

Stephanie wrote:
First, I get so tired of you and others citing the use of religion as a means of justification for war and then blaming the religion itself. You need to spend some time with Machivilli. He explains how religion can and is used to justify violence. The question to be answered is of course does that make Islam evil or does it make those who misuse it evil. If you say that it makes Christianity evil then you had better be prepared to say that pistols are evil becaus ethey are used to commit murder and that cars are evil because people drive them while intoxicated.

That nice you can change letters to red and switch words, but you fail to answer the question, which is what I fully expected.

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Re: Peace trhough strength

Post by Stephanie on Fri Dec 03, 2010 11:33 am

There was no question in that post.

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Re: Peace trhough strength

Post by Cato on Fri Dec 03, 2010 12:42 pm

Stephanie wrote:There was no question in that post.


... The question to be answered is of course does that make Christainity evil or does it make those who misuse it evil. If you say that it makes Christianity evil then you had better be prepared to say that pistols are evil becaus ethey are used to commit murder and that cars are evil because people drive them while intoxicated.


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Re: Peace trhough strength

Post by Stephanie on Fri Dec 03, 2010 1:39 pm

I don't see things in black & white as you do.

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Re: Peace trhough strength

Post by Ich bin Ala-awkbarph on Sat Dec 04, 2010 10:53 am

Stephanie wrote:I don't see things in black & white as you do.

Yes you do, sister...when it comes to your hatred of Zionist Israel. Ala-awkbarf!
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Re: Peace trhough strength

Post by SheikBen on Sun Dec 05, 2010 9:52 am

Stephanie wrote:I don't see things in black & white as you do.

Steph,

I see that you see things in black and white (and for good reason). You reject abortion on demand, socialism, invasion of privacy, etc. Why would you grant religion a special "gray" status?

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Re: Peace trhough strength

Post by Stephanie on Sun Dec 05, 2010 1:21 pm

Religion isn't an act, it's a belief system. It's intangible. As I've said before, overall I don't think organized religion is good for humanity. You guys don't like that answer.

I realize that some think I'm anti-Christian. That's their perspective because I call them to task for the views they express and the acts they commit (or threaten to commit) that are really not very "Christ-like". If you read the Biblical accounts, Jesus was a pretty nice guy. I honestly believe the world would be a better place if more people conducted themselves as the man who healed the sick and fed the hungry and refused to judge the "sinner".

On the other hand, I have been accused of not being "agnostic enough" for defending Christians and calling out those who choose to antagonize or berate them. I'm going to copy & paste a message I read in an atheist group this morning:

I'm debating whether to put up our nativity scene. We put it up last
year and completely confused our xtian neighbors. When they mentioned
that they were surprised and confused to see it, I replied, "Well, we
don't believe in god, but we still love our baby Jesus." The mom just
screwed up her face and then changed the subject, LOL.

This came up several months ago on a state list here and some people
suggested that when we put it up this year that we do it in a mocking
fashion. I suggested a Motel 6 theme and there were a few other
suggestions, including a Mardi Gras theme. I'm looking for ideas that
aren't too terribly hard to get the materials for and set up. I have
baby and manger, Joseph and Mary, angel, three wise guys, a couple of
shepherds, cow, oxen...maybe a couple other things. I think my daughter
still has an X-Wing Fighter toy and we have a tiny Padme figure. Maybe a
Star Wars theme? The baby would be Anakin. Joseph could be the Emperor.
I wouldn't know what to do with the animals.

Ideas? My husband HATES the nativity and wants to get rid of it, and it
did get on my nerves last year after several days. A bit of mockery is
probably the only way we'll be able to keep putting it out. Our
neighbors may stop talking to us, lol.

I get a daily digest from that group. I can just imagine the flaming I'm going to get over my response to that woman and the others who were encouraging her brilliant idea.

I'll try to remember to post the highlights tomorrow.

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Re: Peace trhough strength

Post by SamCogar on Sun Dec 05, 2010 1:42 pm

Stephanie wrote:Religion isn't an act, it's a belief system. It's intangible. As I've said before, overall I don't think organized religion is good for humanity. You guys don't like that answer.

Now you wait just a darn minute there.





I liked you answer.

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Re: Peace trhough strength

Post by Stephanie on Sun Dec 05, 2010 1:46 pm

Why thank you, Sam!

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Re: Peace trhough strength

Post by Cato on Wed Dec 22, 2010 12:23 pm

Stephanie wrote: Religion isn't an act, it's a belief system. It's intangible. As I've said before, overall I don't think organized religion is good for humanity. You guys don't like that answer.

Religion is not just a single beleif system, it is the sum total of all belief systems. The thought you pose however, regarding organized religion is indeed interesting to me. I guess we need to start be me asking you what you mean by organized religion? How do yo define organized religion?


Stephanie wrote: I realize that some think I'm anti-Christian. That's their perspective because I call them to task for the views they express and the acts they commit (or threaten to commit) that are really not very "Christ-like". If you read the Biblical accounts, Jesus was a pretty nice guy. I honestly believe the world would be a better place if more people conducted themselves as the man who healed the sick and fed the hungry and refused to judge the "sinner".

I high lighted the section where you are in error. You need to do some study. Jesus definately judged sin and called it exactly what it is. When people had turned the temple into a place to buy and sell, he was angry and drove those people. His statement was that "his father's house is a house of prayer, and that the people had turned it into a den of theives". When he was confronted by the pharisees with a woman caught in adultry and asked if she should be stoned, he replied that he who is without sin should cast the first stone. Of course no one did cast the first stone. What is also important about this story is what Jesus told the lady. He told her to go and sin no more. The point is Jesus definately judged sinners. The difference between Jesus and many christian brethern is that Jesus didn't play the better than thou card.

In my humble opinion, Christainity is hated by so many because it holds people responsibile for their actions and choices. The vast majority fo people don't want responsibility and will cling to whatever doctrine excuses responsibility. Jesus never once forced anyone to do anything. He did however, make it quite clear the alternatives and the consequences, but the choice always would fall to the individual.







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Re: Peace trhough strength

Post by ziggy on Fri Dec 24, 2010 2:39 pm

In my humble opinion, Christainity is hated by so many because it holds people responsibile for their actions and choices.

How does Christianity hold anyone responsible for anything? Punishments and rewards do not hold people responsible. Responsibility is about having a social conscience, not about sticks and carrots. We train our pets with rewards and punishments. That does not make them responsible for their actions- only obedient to their "masters".
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Re: Peace trhough strength

Post by Cato on Fri Dec 24, 2010 4:09 pm

ziggy wrote:
In my humble opinion, Christainity is hated by so many because it holds people responsibile for their actions and choices.

How does Christianity hold anyone responsible for anything? Punishments and rewards do not hold people responsible. Responsibility is about having a social conscience, not about sticks and carrots. We train our pets with rewards and punishments. That does not make them responsible for their actions- only obedient to their "masters".

Everything we do has both reward and consequences, so your point is what?

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Re: Peace trhough strength

Post by ziggy on Fri Dec 24, 2010 11:42 pm

Everything we do has both reward and consequences, so your point is what?

My point is that- contrary to your assertion- Christianity does not hold people responsible for their actions.

But yes, everything we do has consequences- quite aside from Christianity or any other anities.
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Re: Peace trhough strength

Post by Cato on Sat Dec 25, 2010 10:39 am

ziggy wrote:
Everything we do has both reward and consequences, so your point is what?

My point is - contrary to your assertion- Christianity does not hold people responsible for their actions.

But yes, everything we do has consequences- quite aside from Christianity or any other anities.

Christianity doesn't hold people accountable!? Explain to me how it doesn't.


Last edited by Cato on Sat Dec 25, 2010 2:40 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Peace trhough strength

Post by Aaron on Sat Dec 25, 2010 2:38 pm

It seems to me it's the ultimate accountability as the one human your held accountable to is yourself.
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Re: Peace trhough strength

Post by ziggy on Sat Dec 25, 2010 10:37 pm

Cato wrote:
ziggy wrote:
Everything we do has both reward and consequences, so your point is what?

My point is - contrary to your assertion- Christianity does not hold people responsible for their actions.

But yes, everything we do has consequences- quite aside from Christianity or any other anities.

Christianity doesn't hold people accountable!? Explain to me how it doesn't.

I asked you first. And you are the one making the positive assertion- that Christianity holds people accountable for their actions. So it is up to you to explain how it does.
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