Arizona Congresswoman shot; two others killed

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Re: Arizona Congresswoman shot; two others killed

Post by Aaron on Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:18 am

That's a pretty good question Jimmy, I'm just curious as to whether you would agree with what some are saying are the answers.

I read a piece yesterday (I'll have to see if I can find it) in which one gentleman didn't blame Rush Limbaugh and Sarah Palin for the shooting but he did blame the Republican Party for removing funding for mental health treatment centers and for sentancing laws ignoring mental health issues and jailing those who suffer instead of getting them needed treatment.

I'm curious, what are you're thoughts on those comments.
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Re: Arizona Congresswoman shot; two others killed

Post by ohio county on Wed Jan 12, 2011 5:03 pm

Those statements are true. The mentally ill were released from bondage during the Kennedy and Reagan administrations. There were advocates who objected to large mental institutions where the mentally ill could be committed against their will. As with many government initiatives the goals are laudable but not particularly well thought-out. Obviously, releasing mental patients without any preconditions would be dicey. Yet, here we are.

The republicans are at least as guilty as the democrats of allowing this to go on for nearly fifty years. There are a whole host of residential treatment centers in unsuspecting neighborhoods across the United States. But, at the same time, it is nearly impossible to commit an adult against his will.

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Re: Arizona Congresswoman shot; two others killed

Post by ohio county on Wed Jan 12, 2011 5:09 pm

Cato, that is exactly what I'm talking about. Thank you for the timely article.

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Re: Arizona Congresswoman shot; two others killed

Post by ziggy on Thu Jan 13, 2011 12:45 am

Maybe it was once-upon-a-time too easy to have one "committed" for mental deficiencies. And maybe today it is to difficult.
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Re: Arizona Congresswoman shot; two others killed

Post by SamCogar on Thu Jan 13, 2011 5:24 am

My now deceased sister-in-law worked at the old Weston State Hospital until she retired.

She once told me there were more patients in there because of Religion than for all the other reasons combined.

I think the new Sharpe Hospital is primarily used for "drunk n' druggie" evaluations before they go on trial or before a Judge renders a decision.

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Re: Arizona Congresswoman shot; two others killed

Post by SamCogar on Thu Jan 13, 2011 5:46 am

Dupnik’s Department Knew Loughners

Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik got plenty of attention when he quickly pinned the blame for the assassination attempt on Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, D-Ariz., on conservatives, Rush Limbaugh and even Republican opposition to the “progress” being sought by his fellow Democrats.

But it has now been revealed that Dupnik’s department had prior interaction with suspect Jared Loughner. The department is still holding back details of the calls, but has now confirmed that deputies made multiple visits to the Lougner home in recent years.

Tucson bloggers have reported that Loughner’s past outbursts and anti-social behavior had prompted multiple calls to Dupnik’s department, but those reports are still unconfirmed.

It is becoming clearer that Loughner was evidently spiraling downward over the past two years and frightening friends, neighbors and classmates with his behavior and views. A shooting buddy tells the New York Times that Loughner had become a Nietzsche-reading nihilist who openly expressed his belief that his own subconscious was the only reality and that the world was “hollow” and “fake.”

There is lots of blame to go around for those who knew Loughner but did not alert authorities to his bizarre behavior and violent urges. His parents, neighbors and friends will no doubt spend lifetimes examining why they did not act before Saturday’s tragedy.

But, if Dupnik’s department had reason to believe that Loughner was a troubled soul and did not initiate mental health proceedings against him, it would go beyond ethical obligation and into legal culpability.

Reporters are now waiting for the reports on the calls to Loughners’ home to be released.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/01/12/dupniks-department-knew-loughners-obama-skip-politics-gun-control-fight-brewing/

Now ya know why Dupnik quickly pinned the blame for the assassination attempt on conservatives, Rush Limbaugh and even Republican opposition.


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Re: Arizona Congresswoman shot; two others killed

Post by ohio county on Thu Jan 13, 2011 6:59 am

The Arizona Republic demanded a state-level FOIA release from Dupnik detailing every contact his office had with Loughner. The files were released reluctantly but detail no fewer than thirteen contacts since 2002. I'd be anxious to blame Sarah Palin, too.

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Re: Arizona Congresswoman shot; two others killed

Post by SamCogar on Thu Jan 13, 2011 1:58 pm

lol!

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Re: Arizona Congresswoman shot; two others killed

Post by ohio county on Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:03 pm

I heard, too, that Arizona is one of the few states with an aggressive law that allows public officials to commit paranoid schizophrenics for a fairly intense evaluation. I wouldn't want to take that to the bank...

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Re: Arizona Congresswoman shot; two others killed

Post by SamCogar on Sat Jan 15, 2011 5:01 am

But if they commit a paranoid schizophrenics for a fairly intense evaluation it takes money out of their bank account (budget).

It is not good monetary policy to be arresting per say indigents who can't or won't pay the costs incurred by said public officials.

But they will arrest them if the crime was against "one of their own", the public demands it ....... or it is great PR for themselves.

DUH, the latter one is why they make at least one (1) "drug bust" every year,


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Re: Arizona Congresswoman shot; two others killed

Post by SamCogar on Sat Jan 15, 2011 5:13 am

PS: Law enforcement and Crimnal Lawyers know it would both be stupid and asinine to rid the streets of all Criminals.

The Crimnal Lawyers would hafta find a 2nd job.

And Law enforcement knows that if there is no crime being committed the "clueless" public will start asking why the need of so many cops spending so much tax money.

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Re: Arizona Congresswoman shot; two others killed

Post by ziggy on Sun Jan 16, 2011 1:21 pm

I heard, too, that Arizona is one of the few states with an aggressive law that allows public officials to commit paranoid schizophrenics for a fairly intense evaluation. I wouldn't want to take that to the bank...

Does that law also allow said accused paranoid schizophrenics to commit said public officials to a fairly intense evaulation of the officials' own sanity?
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Re: Arizona Congresswoman shot; two others killed

Post by ohio county on Sun Jan 16, 2011 3:32 pm

No. But one news outlet got the headline right:

http://www.theonion.com/articles/political-pundits-surprisingly-good-at-getting-ins,18817/

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Re: Arizona Congresswoman shot; two others killed

Post by SamCogar on Mon Jan 17, 2011 9:12 am

I call them ...... After-the-Fact Experts that are looking for another 5 minutes of their own fame ...... especially those clueless guest the MC drags on there to appease the public's thirst to be Bullshitted..

I really got pissed yesterday watching Chris Wallace's Fox News Sunday when he and his panel was discussing said shooting and of course Sara Palin and her "blood fued" remark was the main topic.

And the way they were badmouthing Palin all I could think of was:

GEESUS, everyone of them is conservative leaning and there they are "eating their own".

And my 2nd thought was .... they sure as hell wouldn't have talked about Hillary like they did or most any other Democrat.

Wallace also interviewed Pawlenty ..... so maybe everyone was afraid of "painting a pretty picture" of Pawlenty & Palin out of fear that Fox viewers would see them as a "Dynamic Duo" to be considered for the 2012 Election.



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Re: Arizona Congresswoman shot; two others killed

Post by Stephanie on Wed Jan 19, 2011 1:20 am

One thing I've noticed about Republicans (remember I've been one nearly all my life) is they're very good at throwing each other under any available bus.

There was a time when it was the norm for people who were not a danger to anybody were warehoused in mental institutions for life. These people frequently languished in deplorable conditions with no real treatment and little contact with the outside world.

It's late and I haven't been all that well and I'm speaking strictly from memory and some of this could be a bit off base BUT.......I seem to recall a young Geraldo Rivera making a name for himself when I was just child by exposing these horrors in some institution or another in MA, a neighbor to RI, where I grew up. I think (but I suppose I could be wrong) that it was this particular piece of reporting (Geraldo was pretty good back in the day before he got all full of himself) that lead to an examination of these sorts of places and laws changed and most of these people were turned out of these facilities.

Now, in an ideal world these poor folks would have been sent to group homes or rehab facilities or reunited with families but in too many cases they were just put out with nowhere to go and now there is still nowhere to go for many people suffering from these sorts of illnesses and disabilities. So it's like they traded one horror story for another. Life on the streets can't possibly be much fun, imho.

Here we are and most of those old places are closed and "government" has done little to solve the problem of what to do with the folks who just can't make it on their own. They go without treatment and services that they need and just continue on a downward spiral.

It seems to me that there were plenty of people that new this Loughner guy was in need of help yet they did nothing. Nobody wants to get involved, I suppose. What a pity because Arizona does have that law and it would have been pretty easy to have him evaluated and get him into treatment and possibly those innocent people would still be alive and Gabby Giffords playing with her husband's wedding ring wouldn't top every news broadcast for days.

Now you guys can continue to rip each other's faces off about who's a bigot and who is not and what motivates who and who's to blame for the lack of treatment options for mentally ill people in this country. None of it will do a damn bit of good.

At the risk of making Cato think even less of me than he already does, I'm going to state that I believe one of the functions of government is to provide a safety net for the citizenry. Part of the fabric of that safety net should be treatment for severe mental illness. People afflicted with untreated schizophrenia or bipolar disorder etc are not capable of caring for themselves. They need that safety net. Not only is it the humane thing to do, it is the practical thing to do.

Sorry this is so long......I haven't been on in days so now I'm wordy.

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