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Teacher's Union doesn't support better teachers

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shermangeneral
TerryRC
Stephanie
Aaron
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Post by Aaron Sun Jun 22, 2008 7:57 pm

Here's a thought Sasha. How about teachers have to pass certification test every 5 years or so and must keep their credentials to teach certain subjects current.
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Post by wvsasha Sun Jun 22, 2008 8:05 pm

Hi SheikBen - been busy trying to sell house and buy new(er) one.

I know of several times where teachers have presented information that was plain wrong - one teacher told kids that Brazil was the capitol of South America. I about croaked....Sad

But I do think that kids misremember a lot of what is taught in their classes as well. I have students that I know darn well what was taught to them in previous classes but when they move on, they often mix up/misremember important concepts and details about content due to various reasons. Some reasons could include 1) they didn't learn it all the way to begin with, 2) they didn't care enough to remember, 3) it wasn't taught properly/well in the first place, and/or 4) they've plain out forgotten just like we all do with things.

I would like some form of ability for teachers who go above and beyond to be able to be rewarded. But the unions need to be on board or they'll nix it faster than hail stones melt in florida.

I do like Aaron's thought about re-testing. I think that would be appropriate and i wouldn't have any problems with it.
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Post by Stephanie Mon Jun 23, 2008 7:48 am

Hey Sasha! We've missed you. (Especially the other girl in the forum has missed you!)

Do you think the union would go for the testing?
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Post by Aaron Mon Jun 23, 2008 7:52 am

My 2 cents worth.

Of course not Stephanie. There's not enough Sasha's in the union and too many deadbeats drawing a check, waiting on retirement. They're not interested in what's best for the kids, they're interested in what's best for them.
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Post by Stephanie Mon Jun 23, 2008 4:42 pm

I agree and it's extremely unfortunate for nearly everyone involved. Obviously it's bad for the students and parents and taxpayers. But it's also terrible for the truly good teachers. I don't know how to work around that union mentality.

It was my experience working with the NEA in RI that they would go to any lengths to protect incompetent, unkind, even criminal teachers. I don't understand how well educated people can be so stupid, but they are.
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Post by Aaron Mon Jun 23, 2008 4:47 pm

Once again, you agree with me.

I don't think it is only the NEA though. I think that has become the mentality of ALL unions. Unions used to mean good mean doing a hard days work for a fair days pay. Now all it stands for is protecting the few, the lazy, the worthless.

And unfortunately, some teachers fit right in there.
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Post by Stephanie Mon Jun 23, 2008 5:34 pm

I'm not sure I agree with that. My experience has been that is the case with unions that represent public employees. I can't say the same about the Laborer's Union, for example. That union my exhusband belonged to the first few years we were married. They were extremely political and more like organized crime than anything else. Tons of graft and corruption, payoffs and kickbacks, enforcers etc.

The union at W&I Hospital didn't seem interested in protecting incompetent nurses, techs, and others. They were all about $$$$.
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Post by Aaron Mon Jun 23, 2008 6:02 pm

What you didn't mention was a union that wanted to protect the workers and knew part of that was ensuring the company was stable and (gasp) profitable. Those don't exist any longer, at least not that I can see. Unions today, teachers included, are more interested in how much blood they can suck before the rock is dry then anything else. Well, except for lousy employees. There's those.
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Post by wvsasha Mon Jun 23, 2008 7:17 pm

Interestingly - it seems like there are more things we agree on in this issue than what we disagree on. That's progress.

Steph - I hadn't realized that there are only 2 of us girls on here....says something that it takes only 2 of us to balance the rest of "them." cheers
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Post by ziggy Mon Jun 23, 2008 7:25 pm

How does that little ditty go................

A woman has to be twice as good as a man just to be considered half as good. Fortunately, it isn't difficult.
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Post by Stephanie Mon Jun 23, 2008 9:30 pm

wvsasha wrote:Interestingly - it seems like there are more things we agree on in this issue than what we disagree on. That's progress.

Steph - I hadn't realized that there are only 2 of us girls on here....says something that it takes only 2 of us to balance the rest of "them." cheers

Yeppers it's just you and me. We have all these fine male specimens all to ourselves! Life is good. Teacher's Union doesn't support better teachers - Page 2 108328
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Post by SheikBen Tue Jun 24, 2008 8:38 am

It's not that good, Steph. I have been to the pizza parlor more often than to the gym lately.......

Is there a general trend of male majorities on political forums? I seem to recall there was one on the past, grossly inferior website set up by some Picayune weekly in Kanawha County.

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Post by Stephanie Tue Jun 24, 2008 12:10 pm

Gym? What's a gym?

Pass the pizza!
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Post by wvsasha Tue Jun 24, 2008 12:29 pm

i think I just bought a house.....

Someone wanna buy me a drink or some pizza????
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Post by Aaron Tue Jun 24, 2008 1:34 pm

Congratulations Sasha.
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Post by SamCogar Tue Jun 24, 2008 5:43 pm

wvsasha wrote:
So - while they aren't competely certified yet.....they are taking classes and learning about the field, constantly improving their abilities to be effective in the classroom and giving students the latest in the field of study.

DUH, I would call that "doing your Student Teaching before you have been prepared to do your Student Teaching ".

Sasha, how can they effectively explain or teach "the latest in the field of study" .... when they are INCAPABLE of explaining and teaching "the basic rudiments in that field of study"?

Sasha, I take offense ..... at anyone ..... who even remotely suggests that "any teacher" who takes a 6 or 12 week CRASH COURSE in the Sciences ...... is just as good and effective Teacher of Science as I am who spent 4 years earning my Science Degrees.

wvsasha wrote:That could be an interesting thought - would you want a biology teacher who hasn't taken any up-dating classes for 25+years or someone who is working on certification and learning about their field from the professors who are in the trenches and learning about updated and new information in that field for your child? An argument could be made both ways there.

But that "updated and new information in that field" can not be found in the Textbook that is being used by the students.

And if that 25+years teacher is worth a damn, he/she will be keeping abreast of the "updated and new information in that field" ...... and they shouldn't need a College Professor to explain it to them.

College Professors aren't required to attend Universities to learn "updated and new information in that field" ...... are they?

And Universitiy Professors aren't required to attend ..... to attend, .... to attend ... geek

Why hell no because there ain't no place for them to attend. Teacher's Union doesn't support better teachers - Page 2 33948

.

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Post by Stephanie Tue Jun 24, 2008 10:19 pm

Congrats Sasha! I hope everything works out and you are settled before the all important start of the school year for your children!
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Post by Stephanie Tue Jun 24, 2008 10:25 pm

Aaron,

I must say that the union at W&I Hospital was very concerned about both employee and patient safety. They were very concerned with their own safety, this was back in the days when AIDS was still "new". I'm not sure they placed money over their own safety, but they certainly put it over patient care. I can say that definitively because they walked out on a patient population that they alone had the ability to adequately care for in the region.
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Post by wvsasha Wed Jun 25, 2008 1:19 pm

SamCogar wrote:
DUH, I would call that "doing your Student Teaching before you have been prepared to do your Student Teaching ".

ok - sorry i wasn't clear. They are already certified TEACHERS and have completed their student teaching for a different certification. They already have the teacher courses on classroom management and experience. They are simply adding a certification.



Sasha, I take offense ..... at anyone ..... who even remotely suggests that "any teacher" who takes a 6 or 12 week CRASH COURSE in the Sciences ...... is just as good and effective Teacher of Science as I am who spent 4 years earning my Science Degrees.

no crash courses - it still takes them a couple of years to get the classes completed. They already have the rest of the credits for the degree - they are just taking the subject area courses - the sciences, the histories, english/literature, whatever. They don't have to repeat the electives and teacher courses for the most part.


And if that 25+years teacher is worth a damn, he/she will be keeping abreast of the "updated and new information in that field" ...... and they shouldn't need a College Professor to explain it to them.

and that was my point. those teachers who aren't worth a damn don't keep up. i am sick of spoon-feeding teachers their professional development - they need to take responsibility for their own improvement and stay abreast of their field.

College Professors aren't required to attend Universities to learn "updated and new information in that field" ...... are they?

one would hope that by dint of where they work they would keep up with the field.
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Post by SamCogar Wed Jun 25, 2008 3:37 pm

wvsasha wrote:
no crash courses - it still takes them a couple of years to get the classes completed. They already have the rest of the credits for the degree - they are just taking the subject area courses - the sciences, the histories, english/literature, whatever. They don't have to repeat the electives and teacher courses for the most part.

So Sasha, and who is teaching those High School Classes for those "couple of years" while that Teacher is completing the "subject area courses" for Certification in that subject? geek

Does the School Board and/or Superintendent ...... "hold those jobs open" ...... for said "couple of years" ........ for said Teacher while he/she is completing said "subject area courses"?

lol! lol! lol!


.

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Post by wvsasha Wed Jun 25, 2008 4:56 pm

SamCogar wrote:
So Sasha, and who is teaching those High School Classes for those "couple of years" while that Teacher is completing the "subject area courses" for Certification in that subject? geek

Does the School Board and/or Superintendent ...... "hold those jobs open" ...... for said "couple of years" ........ for said Teacher while he/she is completing said "subject area courses"?

.

oh good grief Sam.....rarely does anyone switch to subjects in which they know NOTHING or have no natural AFFINITY. They usually at least have background, basic knowledge for the area in which they are transferring so between that and the tools/resources/textbooks that are available for a motivated teacher they would be capable of teaching most basic level high school courses. When/if they run in to students who need more than what the new teacher can provide, the new teacher will usually turn to a mentor for help with that students' needs. They are teaching the classes while taking courses to complete their certification.

We all should know when to turn to those who know more than we do - whether we are beginners or "experienced".

Case in point - I added special education to my certification via a graduate program - it took me 5 years to finish my Master's degree with it as well. But I had already basic knowledge and experience in this field. I certainly would not have attempted to add an English certification and teach at the same time - I hate grammar....I hate having to interpret Literature in certain ways....but I feel comfortable that I could have added biology/earth/space sciences; math up through geometry; or any of the histories excluding economics and felt competent to teach them at the level required while completing my certification classes and not felt like I was short changing my students. I already had/have the basic education courses required and experience in classroom management to plan/deliver/execute most any thing required of those classes. And I know when/where/how to ask/get help when needed.

But if a sliding pay scale between differing subjects is put into practice, I can certainly see someone switching subjects just for the greater pay check and then you might have people with limited skills attempting to teach new (to them) subject matter with little regard for their abilities.
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