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Lipstick on a Bailout

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ohio county
Stephanie
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Post by Stephanie Mon Sep 29, 2008 2:10 pm

http://www.house.gov/htbin/blog_inc?BLOG,tx14_paul,blog,999,All,Item%20not%20found,ID=080929_2441,TEMPLATE=postingdetail.shtml

Texas Straight Talk
A weekly column


This time last week, the biggest bailout in the history of the world seemed to be a fait accompli. Last weekend, the Fed Chairman and the Secretary of the Treasury had harsh words of doom and gloom for Congressional leaders, with the rest of the administration parroting along, and by last Monday it seemed both parties were about to fall in line and vote our Republic away by socializing the banking industry through this bailout.

Foolish business behavior was about to be rewarded, and propped up a little longer, the bubble blown a little bigger, and our coming Depression made that much greater, but then something happened on the way to the House floor.

Citizens made their voices heard.

The real story behind the story in Congress this week was the thousands of calls and emails sent to Representatives, clogging up inboxes and even slowing down the House internet system. Slowly, like the Titanic turning around, sentiments on the Hill shifted, and we heard Congressmen capitulating and changing their tune a little, desperately trying to find ways to salvage the bailout without completely enraging their constituencies.

Now we hear about taxpayer protections, about golden parachutes, and about other nuances that hardly cover up the fact that we would be creating more money out of thin air and further devaluing the dollar! The problem is not HOW the government is spending this money; it’s the fact that the government is spending this money. We don’t have it. We are already nearly $10 trillion in debt, not including unfunded liabilities. We already spend about $1 trillion a year we don’t have on our overseas empire. Now nearly $1 trillion more is somehow supposed to magically appear and solve all our problems! No – creating more money might delay the inevitable for some well-connected banks on Wall Street, but in a few weeks we will find ourselves right back in this same position, but much poorer.

The unfortunate thing is that we’ve already spent at least $700 billion on other bailouts that did not solve the problem. And while all this negotiation was taking place, the auto industry was quietly bailed out, with no controversy, no discussion, to the tune of $25 billion.

Inevitably, it appears Congress will call their constituents’ bluff and the bailout will pass, because that is the habit Wall Street and Washington have fallen into. People are right to be concerned about our financial future. I’ve been talking for 30 some years about reasons we need to be concerned and change our ways. We find ourselves now in a position of no good options, and no silver bullets. But the worst thing we can do is to compound our problems by intensifying the mistakes of the past. We do have tough economic times ahead, no doubt, no matter what we do, even if we do nothing. The question, is will we have the courage to take our medicine now and get it over with, or will we prolong the misery for many years to come? I’m less and less optimistic about the answer to that question
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Post by ohio county Mon Sep 29, 2008 2:32 pm

The bailout fails by a large margin and as of 2:15 PM the Dow is down 491 points.
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Post by Aaron Mon Sep 29, 2008 2:51 pm

I'm shocked. I thought for sure they would pass it. I don't know what to say.

Ample no votes came from both the Democratic and Republican sides of the aisle. More than two-thirds of Republicans and 40 percent of Democrats opposed the bill.

source
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Post by Stephanie Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:17 pm

Do you think that's the end of bailout talks?
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Post by Aaron Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:21 pm

Not by a longshot but it does give, if it's only the slightest ray, some hope that we won't get as hosed as we were going to be last week when Paulson first started talking about a bailout.

I think someone (Paul perhaps) should start screaming monetary policy from the top of his lungs and pray the media picks up on it.

Perhaps we might get something meaningful accomplished after all???
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Post by ohio county Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:25 pm

No, the bailout efforts will continue.

Remember when Sen. Richard Shelby (R-AL) came out of the negotiations with a letter signed by over 200 economists requesting rejection of Paulson's proposal? It isn't nearly as informative as I'd hoped but here it is:

http://faculty.chicagogsb.edu/john.cochrane/research/Papers/mortgage_protest.htm
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Post by ohio county Mon Sep 29, 2008 4:17 pm

As of 4:01 PM the Dow Jones has fallen by 611 points.
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Post by sodbuster Mon Sep 29, 2008 5:34 pm

Well congratulations, I guess...

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Post by SamCogar Tue Sep 30, 2008 6:23 am

ohio county wrote:As of 4:01 PM the Dow Jones has fallen by 611 points.

And the final tally was -777 points, ........ which will forever now be known as:

"777 - Mark of the Democrats"


And which is very befitting for Democrats because I can believe they are 111 points worse than any Devil could ever be.

Lipstick on a Bailout 81632 Lipstick on a Bailout 81632 Lipstick on a Bailout 81632 Lipstick on a Bailout 81632 Lipstick on a Bailout 81632


.

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Post by ohio county Tue Sep 30, 2008 7:25 am

It was a total failure of leadership on both sides of the aisle. Nancy Pelosi gave one of the most ill-timed, ill-advised speeches of her life.
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Post by Stephanie Tue Sep 30, 2008 7:32 am

Jimmy,

I'm beginning to get the feeling you favor the bailout. Is this the case?
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Post by ohio county Tue Sep 30, 2008 7:39 am

No. I'm starting to think that I favor something like the FDIC for investment banks. I don't know know of many government programs that have been successful. FDIC may be one of them. It occurs to me there may be another resolution trust corporation out there...

I think the election comes down to (hat tip to Michael Barone) vague feelings that government institutions are more effective than private, free market forces or vice versa. I suspect I'll always lean more towards free market forces but am beginning to wonder if we shouldn't look more for balance than purity.
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Post by Aaron Tue Sep 30, 2008 8:48 am

sodbuster wrote:Well congratulations, I guess...

I think part of the problem is the blame game and pointing fingers. One party didn't get us in this mess and one party won't get us out. You can blame Republicans if you want but 35% of democrats voted against this bill as well as the 60% of Republicans.

The interview with March Kapture and and Marylin Musgrave is here on GMA. You might find it interesting. And bi-partisan. A democrat and a republican both saying the bailout was a bad bill.
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Post by sodbuster Tue Sep 30, 2008 9:06 am

Well Aaron I was just congratulating those of you on the forum who have been arguing for the defeat of the proposal.

I realize Dems get part of the credit (or blame as the case may be).

Like I said the other day the naysayers had a lot of their credibility invested and needed some kind of a bone.

So now they have it.

But meanwhile back at the ranch the economy is teetering.

So again since you got what you say you want, but like they say be careful what you wish for cause you might get it.

I hope you are right, since your side "won".

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Post by Aaron Tue Sep 30, 2008 9:25 am

My "side" is the American taxpayer.
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Post by sodbuster Tue Sep 30, 2008 9:36 am

"No. I'm starting to think that I favor something like the FDIC for investment banks. I don't know know of many government programs that have been successful. FDIC may be one of them. It occurs to me there may be another resolution trust corporation out there..."

Well OC maybe you already know this but I am learning more by the minute it seems.

One of the Congressmen being interviewed said the Pres. has authority to arbitrarily increase the $100K limit on deposit insurance.

If this were increased to say $1 mill it should give businesses some breathing room dont you think?

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Post by ohio county Tue Sep 30, 2008 9:45 am

sherman, if you knew what was in that package, you would not want it. Paulson had it fixed so that his decisions were not reviewable by any body, courts, Congress, the Executive, nobody. Paulson gave himself so much power he had the right to deflower the bride at your wedding.
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Post by Aaron Tue Sep 30, 2008 9:49 am

And he's using scare tatics and fear mongering in his attempt to get that power. Considering he is Wall Street, I can't for the life of me understand why anyone would want to give the fox the keys to the hen house. Hell, this bill gave complete control of the farm to the fox. I can't figure why otherwise smart Americans can't see through the bs being put out by the so called leaders in Washington.
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Post by ohio county Tue Sep 30, 2008 9:50 am

I don't think one million dollars would touch it. He also has the authority to adjust capital gains taxes for inflation which would do about as much good. He has a few other arrows in his quiver.

I'm thinking about a business that's "too big to fail". Isn't that what Teddy Roosevelt called a "trust"? I swear I'd break up any company that I thought was too big to fail and make them compete in the open market.
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Post by sodbuster Tue Sep 30, 2008 9:57 am

Well OC I thot that non-reviewability clause was taken out.

Like I posted the other day, if that is included I think it would be unconstitutional on its face (and therefore meaningless).

I have not declared I was for it, I just want them to work it out and we can all hold hands and go skipping thru the daisy fields.

Admittedly it is personal with me.

My daughter and son-in-law are both in their second year of law school and need to have access to student loans.

I saw also where home equity lines of credit and credit lines on credit cards are already being curtailed.

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Post by Aaron Tue Sep 30, 2008 10:41 am

I have a son in his first year at Morgantown and I also worry about his access to student loans. It is my understand that student loans is one area where the government will make money available directly to the students if banks refuse to.

It's personal for me as well in that sense which is why that's one of the first things I checked on. That's also one of the main reasons I'm not in favor of the bailout.
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Post by Stephanie Tue Sep 30, 2008 10:52 am

Yoohoo.....

I'm checking in during a break over here.

I have a son in college back in RI and a daughter who is a senior in high school. Most of us have very personal reasons for being concerned about a credit crunch.
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Post by sodbuster Tue Sep 30, 2008 11:09 am

Well then do you guys think they are lying when they report on CNN that one of the ramifications to this not passing is that student loans will dry up?

I just saw McCain on CNN give examples of where that is already happening.

Is McCain lying?

Is he just wrong?

Or is there a possibility you guys might be wrong?

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Post by ohio county Tue Sep 30, 2008 11:29 am

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080929/mortgage_giants_investigations.html

This is good news.
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Post by Aaron Tue Sep 30, 2008 12:15 pm

Yes S, there is a possibility that I could be wrong.

I don't think I am but I won't totally leave out that possibility.

Before student loans dried up, I'm quite confident that at least 12 members from either party of the 228 that voted no on the bill would flip and vote yes.

I'm a little surprised that you would quote John McCain, who of the two candidates has done the most politicizing on this issue as an avenue to prove me wrong.

To be honest with you, if my choice for President were based solely on how the candidates have handled this issue, I would likely vote for Obama.

McCain turned my stomach when he said something to the effect of "This is all Obama's fault but it's not the time to point fingers."
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