Worldwide ramifications of Economic mismanagement?

How did we devolve from a country respected and envied around the world( and a country with sound fiscal management and a balanced budget) in eight short years?

http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/10/02/europe/russia.php

Just as President Bush received bad advice in foreign/military affairs, he clearly had bad economic advice as well.

Should we have a serious national inquiry?

Yes, the Obama administration should fully prosecute the band of thieves who raided Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac (and the Treasury) and put them in jail. This should include both House and Senate Banking chairs and many members. This will make it difficult but we are the 'change we've been waiting for'.

Well OC as I understand it, Congress (and therefore individual Congressmen) have no executive authority other than management of their own respective legislative bodies.

They only pass laws and promulgate rules and regulations on how to implement them.

So how could they "raid" the fannie mae and freddie mac (and the Treasury)?

That would be analogous to blaming the Congress because Reagan and Greenspan decided to "raid" the soc. security Trust funds wouldn't it?

If Congress has not authority other then over their own legislative bodies, why are they holding hearings daily? Why was there even hearings where both Dodd and Frank claimed Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were sound and in no trouble?

We're we in this mess two years ago when democrats regained control of Congress and if so, why didn't they prevent this meltdown?

Give it up, Aaron. It doesn't matter how many times Barney Frank & Chris Dodd screwed over the American people with their lies and their misdeeds. They don't lie and they don't cheat, steal or swindle. Barney Frank is as innocent as the day he was born, forget about his lover and the obvious conflict of interest and forget about how he stated repeatedly there was nothing wrong with Fannie or Freddie and everything was coming up roses until it the shit hit the fan.

It's all Boosh's fault. If not Boosh than his father or Ronald Reagan or some other member of the vast right wing conspiracy team.

"If Congress has not authority other then over their own legislative bodies, why are they holding hearings daily?"

Well Aaron I did not say they have no authority.

I said they have no executive authority other than the exceptions I listed.

Like I specifically said earlier they have authority to pass legislation and promulgate rules and reg's for their implementation.

Only the executive branch has the operational authority to implement the laws as written.

That is commonly referred to as "division of powers".

If Congress has not authority other then over their own legislative bodies, why are they holding hearings daily?

Maybe to decide what, if any, additional legislation is advisable?

ziggy wrote: Maybe to decide what, if any, additional legislation is advisable?

Why waste their time and taxpayer money creating additional legislation if they are unable to enforce current legislation or to force those responsible for said enforcement to enforce said?

Just like WV, huh, .... the Legislature passes Laws ...... but if the police agencies don't want to enforce them ......... EXCEPT TO SELECTIVELY ENFORCE THEM, ...... then no one in WV will force them to enforce them.



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Why waste their time and taxpayer money creating additional legislation if they are unable to enforce current legislation or to force those responsible for said enforcement to enforce said?

Enforcement of current legislation is an administrative agency function. Duhh. Congress can make laws, but it can't force the president and his appointed agencies to enforce them- even if it wanted to.

Same way on the state level. The state legislature cannot make the governor and his appointed agenices enforce anything- even if it wanted to, but which mostly it doesn't.

That's not true Frank. The legislative branch controls the purse strings so if an agency is not doing what they are supposed to do, all they have to do is pull funding and they'll get exactly what they want.

Of course law enforcement can't do what they're supposed to do if the legislative branch is covering up crimes as the Senate banking committee has been doing for years.

Nothing- the Congress nor anything else- has kept the Bush administration or previous administrations from investigatiing anything in the financial services industry any time it cared to.

But those administrations just didn't care to. Dare we wonder why not?

You blame Bush of wrongdoing but excuse Dodd and Frank.

I'm not suprised.

Sorry pal, I hate to be the one to tell you, this isn't a partisan issue. Both parties have failed the public miserably in this mess, both parties are responsible for the meltdown and both parties should pay dearly in criminal investigations.

At least that's the way I see it from my bi-partisan loving bi-focals.

You blame Bush of wrongdoing but excuse Dodd and Frank.

I am not excusing anyone. I have said repeatedly here to bring on the investigations- of Dodd and Frank, and even of Bush.

All I have done is agree with you that legal campaign contributions in the millions of dollars provided the motive for their actions. Or are you back-peddling on that now?

Do you think "legal campaign contributions" were the only motivating factor for Barney Frank?

Let me ask you this, why are you so intent on focusing on a man who will be out of office in a little more than 3 months? Why not worry about how to get rid of the jackasses who will still be in positions of power? Why not worry about Barney Frank who now claims he and his cohorts performed CPR on the economy and now must create reforms when for years he lied and deceived an denied all the while covering for his lover who raked in the dough?

Do you think "legal campaign contributions" were the only motivating factor for Barney Frank?

Millions of dollars of legal bribery provide a hell of a motivation within themselves. Even Aaron agrees with that.

I think that those legal campaigns contributions provide the motivation for what we have seen of Frank amd others, yes. They don't want those $$$ to stop flowing.

And if investigations find that there are / were other motivations, and that illegalities have taken place, then I agree with Jimmy that they should be prosecuted.

But if all there is are those millions in campaign contributions, then they are off the hook.

Let me ask you this, why are you so intent on focusing on a man who will be out of office in a little more than 3 months?

You and others brought up the matter of inadequate enforcement of the regulations affecting the financial services industry. I just pointed out that those are administrative, not legislative, functions.

Why not worry about how to get rid of the jackasses who will still be in positions of power? Why not worry about Barney Frank who now claims he and his cohorts performed CPR on the economy and now must create reforms when for years he lied and deceived an denied all the while covering for his lover who raked in the dough?

As I have said before, I believe that the way to change that is to change the way election campaigns are financed. The current campaign finance system virtually guarantees incumbents a several fold advantage over challengers.

By pretending that legalized bribery is "free speech", we assure that the biggest motivation for corruption remains intact, and that the mechanism for virtually automatic re-election of incumbents is guaranteed.

Well OC as I understand it, Congress (and therefore individual Congressmen) have no executive authority other than management of their own respective legislative bodies.

They only pass laws and promulgate rules and regulations on how to implement them.

So how could they "raid" the fannie mae and freddie mac (and the Treasury)?

On the belief that you are serious and not playing me, I'll gladly answer that. The reason for my disbelief is that I've been posting about this for several months now. I'd be more than happy to refer you to some of those posts.

A simple Wikipedia shot on Franklin Raines will tell you that he overstated earnings at Fannie Mae in order to inflate the bonuses of the executive committee which consisted of a pack of Clinton administration re-treads including (but not limited to) Rahm Emmanuel and Jamie Gorelick. This was pointed out to the Congress in 2003 by the Office of Federal Housing Oversight, the only auditing body to oversee Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac for the government. The report said that Raines had "violated his trust". Nothing ever came of that failed audit largely due to the resistance of Barney Frank and Chris Dodd.

http://www.ofheo.gov/media/pdf/lockharttestimony61506.pdf

When Barney Frank disingenuously points to deregulation of the banking industry, he is pulling a "ignore that man behind the curtain" gambit in that the deregulation allowed commercial banks to sell instruments which they were not permitted to sell before. It had nothing to do with unsecured mortgage loans. The push to drive ever higher revenues at Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are behind the credit failure, that is because the investment banks still have these ill-advised mortgage loans among their assets.

Also, there's plenty of bipartisan blame to go around. No guilty individual from any or either party should escape punishment. That's all I want you to admit.

So what were Frank & Dodd required to do that they didn't do, or what did they do that was illegal?

"... No guilty individual from any or either party should escape punishment. That's all I want you to admit...."

Well OC when you say you want me to "admit" to that statement it implies that I was opposed to it before. Which I never was.

So if you mean guilty of a crime I say sure.

If you mean guilty of being accused, or if you mean yourself or Stephanie or Aaron dont like them and think they should be punished then I say no.

ohio county wrote: Also, there's plenty of bipartisan blame to go around. No guilty individual from any or either party should escape punishment. That's all I want you to admit.

Ohio, you might as well be trying to piss up to the top of a 20 foot rope hanging in a tree ....... as to be trying to get Sherman or Ziggy to admit to much anything.

And I really feel sorry for you wasting you time again trying to explain anything to them ....... because neither is the least damn bit interested in anything except the tripe, piffle, untruths and BS of their own agendas.

I gave up long ago at trying to discuss or explain anything to them ..... because they only reply by throwing shit into what they consider "a game" in an attempt of embarassing and belittling anyone involved.

Neither really gives shit about what is happening to the economy in this country and could care less if it declined into a gawd awful Depression with acts of anarchy and riots occurring on a daily basis.

Maybe only then when it "bites them in the ass" will they realize it wasn't such a "fun game" they were playing.



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I have no feelings one way or another about any Congressman or woman (except the 3 that represent me) and my only concern is that they do what is best for America first and their district second. I do not believe Dodd or Frank, among others, have done that. In fact, I believe they have done the exact opposite and committed criminal acts to which I pointed out and should be punished accordingly.

I do not believe that they are alone in their crimes or that it is a democratic problem. The reason I personally have mentioned those two by names is because they are the ones on TV trying to shift the blame from them and their committees and are trying to point blame on others.

For what it's worth, I also think Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid along with their respective precedessors share in some of the blame and should be investigated as this happened on their watch and I find it hard to believe that none knew what was going on.

sodbuster wrote:"... No guilty individual from any or either party should escape punishment. That's all I want you to admit...."

Well OC when you say you want me to "admit" to that statement it implies that I was opposed to it before. Which I never was.

So if you mean guilty of a crime I say sure.

If you mean guilty of being accused, or if you mean yourself or Stephanie or Aaron dont like them and think they should be punished then I say no.

Well there you have it. We don't like Barney Frank so we want him publicly lynched. Just ignore the evidence against him. Ignore the fact that his lover profited mightily because Frank resisted every effort by anyone seeking to impose regulations on Fannie Mae. Ignore the fact that with sworn testimony of regulators stating that the books were being cooked over there and Franks insisted there were no problems.

Yes, it's all us. Poor lil ole Barney Frank is being picked on by the big bad conservatives because he is an openly gay Democrat. There is no need to investigate. He would never do anything illegal. It's all a big misunderstanding and it's very unfortunate that the chairman of a powerful Congressional committee makes an honest mistake, over and over again for the better part of 20 years that partisan hacks like me & Jimmy want him to be held accountable for those little lapses in judgement.

I'm so ashamed of myself. Jimmy, aren't you ashamed? Aaron, Sam, hang your heads in shame for Sherm & Ziggy.

We've been humbled.

Here's what I find ironic. The Bush bunch, right wing whacko's are the ones calling for investigations and stating that both parties share in the blame while the more progressive are blaming this entire mess on the right.

Interesting. Very interesting.

"So if you mean guilty of a crime I say sure."

Well you guys can't argue the facts so you just make up what you want and argue against that.

They've talked themselves into a corner, Sodbuster. And it's all your and my fault- because I agree that there should be an investigation, and you agree that that the people found to be guilty of crimes should be punished. We agree with them, but somehow they're still not satisfied.

Jeez. Sometimes this forum is almost like being married ........................