Colin Powell endorses Obama!!

The next sound you hear will be the Rove-Bush-McCain smear campaign.

Are you suprised? Powell is a moderate Republican/consertative democrat who was courted by both parties as a potential candidate in 1998 to run in the 2000 election.

All this means is that his race superceded his service.

Aaron wrote:Are you suprised? Powell is a moderate Republican/consertative democrat who was courted by both parties as a potential candidate in 1998 to run in the 2000 election.

All this means is that his race superceded his service.

You obviously didn't listen to his announcement on MTP. I will probably be on YouTube later today; check it out, and THEN tell us how this was purely a racial decision. Tell us precisely WHAT Powell said in this announcement that indicates that race had ANYTHING to do with his endorsement.

I never said it was purely a racial decision Bill. I said he was a moderate Republican/consertative democrate courted by both sides before he ever announced himself as a Republican. When he was being courted in the late 90's many thought he would come out as a democrat because of his social views, including those on abortion and affirmative action.

From his appearance on MTP.

As a key reason, Powell said: "I would have difficult with two more conservative appointments to the Supreme Court, but that's what we'd be looking at in a McCain administration."

If you think this is a former solid strong consertative general such as Norman Schwarzkopf coming out in favor of Obama, you're showing you lack of knowledge and here I thought you were supposed to be a smart person Bill.

Isn't Powell the SoS that argued for the war that Obama opposed?

Aaron wrote:If you think this is a former solid strong consertative general such as Norman Schwarzkopf coming out in favor of Obama, you're showing you lack of knowledge and here I thought you were supposed to be a smart person Bill.

You might note, Clyde, that this discussion was about COLIN POWELL'S endorsement.

You might also note that he specifically cited, among other things, McCain's choice of Sarah Palin (whom he considered to be completely unqualified) as a running mate as a factor in making his decision. Powell basically thinks that the GOP has gone too far to the right for him to comfortably endorse McCain.

In any case, the endorsement of a former Joint Chiefs of Staff Chair AND Secretary of State (under a GOP President, no less) means a lot more than that of just any retired general.

bmd wrote:

Aaron wrote:If you think this is a former solid strong consertative general such as Norman Schwarzkopf coming out in favor of Obama, you're showing you lack of knowledge and here I thought you were supposed to be a smart person Bill.

You might note, Clyde, that this discussion was about COLIN POWELL'S endorsement.

You might also note that he specifically cited, among other things, McCain's choice of Sarah Palin (whom he considered to be completely unqualified) as a running mate as a factor in making his decision. Powell basically thinks that the GOP has gone too far to the right for him to comfortably endorse McCain.

In any case, the endorsement of a former Joint Chiefs of Staff Chair AND Secretary of State (under a GOP President, no less) means a lot more than that of just any retired general.

To who? To you, perhaps. It's meaningless to me, and it is meaningless to black moderates and conservatives who feel betrayed by Powell for not running for the presidency himself years ago.


Now I realize you don't think it is humanly possible for such a person as a black conservative to exist, but I happen to be well acquainted with quite a few, and count several as my friends. Some of them live and work right here in WV. I know that must be hard for you to wrap your LWL mind around, but it's true.

Now, bmd....I have a tip for you. I realize you're new to this particular forum and all, but in this forum our conversations progress and topics evolve. It is reasonable to compare Schwartzkopf to Powell because of their shared military background.

Stephanie wrote:To who? To you, perhaps. It's meaningless to me, and it is meaningless to black moderates and conservatives who feel betrayed by Powell for not running for the presidency himself years ago...It is reasonable to compare Schwartzkopf [sic] to Powell because of their shared military background.

Black, white, polka-dotted, it makes no difference. Colin Powell's endorsement is very powerful because he is a well respected moderate. John McCain essentially traded the support of moderates for that of the GOP lunatic fringe by: A) choosing Palin as a running mate; and B) allowing, and to some extent participating in, a smear campaign against Obama. What McCain failed to realize, or just plain forgot, was that he and Obama weren't fighting over the votes from either there far right or the far left of the political spectrum (about 1/3 of the total at each extreme); those voters will invariably vote either Republican or Democrat, respectively. It's the folks in the middle, the moderates, who to be swayed to win the election.

Granted, McCain is fairly moderate himself, so one can assume that he can be pretty much assured of those votes from the lunatic right-wing fringe to his more-or-less right of center position on the spectrum. But, while his choice of Palin may have kept a small minority of the GOP's lunatic fringe from staying home, that same choice essentially put at risk all the votes of all those to McCain's left.

Powell's endorsement hurts McCain for two reasons: a) it's a "defection" of a very high profile, very well respected member of his own party (never a good thing for any candidate); and b) it puts a spotlight on why moderates are becoming increasingly uncomfortable with McCain's shift (or at least his perceived shift) toward the lunatic fringe. In other words, Powell is just the sort of moderate McCain needs to attract if he were to have any chance of winning. However, not only did McCain not get Powell's endorsement, he lost it to Obama. Powell could have just kept quiet, or made a "non-endorsement." By endorsing Obama, and very clearly stating that much of the impetus for his "defection" was the slide of the GOP to the far right, Powell has undoubtedly made it that much more difficult (if not impossible) for McCain to gain the votes of enough moderate voters to remain competitive.

As for Schwarzkopf, he was never either Chair of the Joint Chiefs or Secretary of State, so does not have nearly the national profile as a political figure. Beyond that, given that he is far more conservative than McCain, his endorsement will do little to improve McCain's position with moderates. So, in this context it is essentially irrelevant. It may matter to the 1/3 of the electorate that will already vote for the GOP nominee no matter what, but it is unlikely to sway a significant number of voters to McCain's left.

Stephanie wrote:Now I realize you don't think it is humanly possible for such a person as a black conservative to exist,...

Stephanie, I make absolutely no assumptions about anyone based on the color of their skin.

Stephanie wrote:Now, bmd....I have a tip for you. I realize you're new to this particular forum and all, but in this forum our conversations progress and topics evolve.

And I have a tip for you: I have been arguing with knucklehead conservatives for far longer than you may realize. I am very familiar with the tactics of many on this board. If you think that I will just roll over and let you, or anyone else, dictate how I debate my positions, then you might as well concede that sticking to a topic is beyond the ability of the members of this group and ban me right now.

First, who's Clyde. My name is Aaron. I don't hide behind some monicker as I'm not afraid of who I am. See if you can remember that Bill.

Second, while Powell's endorsement does carry weight, it's neither as powerful as you want to make out or the least bit unexpected. Sherm stated it would happen two months ago.

And third, if you knew anything about Powell, you would know that while he was a registered Republican, it was in military name only. In every other aspect, he was and is a moderate/consertative democrat.

You're showing your ignorance in know at the least acknowledging that simple fact.

So, Clyde, how far to the left does a person have to be before you consider them not to be a "real" Republican? To the left of you? To the left of John McCain? To the left of Sarah Palin? Or should we draw the line somewhere around Pat Buchanan or David Duke?

Colin Powell has served as an appointee under three Republican presidents, he has never, to my knowledge, identified himself as a Democrat, and does not do so now. However, given the current slide of the GOP toward its lunatic fringe, Powell and many other moderates within the GOP are likely to seriously consider finding a more hospitable political home.

In other words, we may be witnessing the beginning of the end of the GOP as we currently know it. That doesn't necessarily mean that they will turn to the Democratic party. They may form a new, more centrist, party. Or, they may turn the tables on the fringe and force the likes of Palin (and perhaps yourself) to find a political home elsewhere.

You mean the GOP's spending like democrats? The Medicare prescription benefit? Failure to privatize Social Security? Wow! They are fringe.

bmd wrote:So, Clyde, how far to the left does a person have to be before you consider them not to be a "real" Republican? To the left of you? To the left of John McCain? To the left of Sarah Palin? Or should we draw the line somewhere around Pat Buchanan or David Duke?

Colin Powell has served as an appointee under three Republican presidents, he has never, to my knowledge, identified himself as a Democrat, and does not do so now. However, given the current slide of the GOP toward its lunatic fringe, Powell and many other moderates within the GOP are likely to seriously consider finding a more hospitable political home.

In other words, we may be witnessing the beginning of the end of the GOP as we currently know it. That doesn't necessarily mean that they will turn to the Democratic party. They may form a new, more centrist, party. Or, they may turn the tables on the fringe and force the likes of Palin (and perhaps yourself) to find a political home elsewhere.

You're showing that you're just not a smart person Bill, at least not politically. You're repeating political talk I posted last week so don't think you can try and repackage it as anti GOP and think you're putting out something new. All you're doing is copying what I said but don't worry, I take no offense as imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

From you rant above the complete post shows your ignorance as the only sentence that contains any truth whatsoever is in that Powell served appointed positions under three Republican Presidents but considering he has served in some capacity under EVERY President since 1987, that really does't change one simple fact.

You’re ignorance is intact.

bmd wrote:In other words, we may be witnessing the beginning of the end of the GOP as we currently know it.

It may interest you to know, Bill, that a significant number of Republicans (myself included) are working very hard to end the GOP as we currently know it. We're not at all pleased with the empire building and the fiat money and Medicare RX and talk of amnesty for illegal aliens and preemptive wars and the lot.

We will reclaim our party.

It doesn't interest him Stephanie. All is sees is a Republican endorsing Obama so he doesn't care about the facts. It doesn't matter to him that when ask 10 years ago by Diane Sawyer if he was a democrat or a Republican, his response was no answer. He did acknowledge supporting democratic stance on social issues including abortion and affirmative action though, so while he may be a Republican, he's certainly not a strict conservative.

But liberals like Bill don't care. As I said, all they see is a Republican endorsing Obama and see this as Rafiki anointing a young Simba and they view the elephants kneeling in the Pride Lands is the demise of the GOP at the feet of "The One".

I just watched the MTP interview and following conversation of Powell's endorsement. This was neither a ringing endorsement of Obama nor a denouncement of John McCain but was a scathing tongue lashing and resulting punishment to the Republican Party by Powell.

I agree with much of what he said and while I don't believe Obama is the answer, I don't think he will be as bad for the country as a veto proof Congress will be. If that does happen, I wonder if Obama has the courage to stand up to his own party leadership.