Quit your job--go to school earn $40/hr!!
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Quit your job--go to school earn $40/hr!!
Obama's 'Service in College' Program at Change.gov Promises $40 an Hour
By Tom Blumer (Bio | Archive)
November 8, 2008 - 10:29 ET
—Tom Blumer is president of a training and development company in Mason, Ohio, and is a contributing editor to NewsBusters
By Tom Blumer (Bio | Archive)
November 8, 2008 - 10:29 ET
The latest version of president-elect Barack Obama's ever-evolving ideas for "community service" promises to pass out quite a bit of it to America's college students.
The "America Serves" (link is to Google cache) and "Service" sections of Team Obama's Change.gov site have, uh, changed quite a bit over the past day or so after many, including Kerry Picket of Newsbusters, noted that the "service" proposals require youth conscription, i.e., a non-military draft.
As of 8 AM this morning, Team Obama's cleanup operation is nearly complete, with almost all coercive language purged.
But one item noted last night by Charles Johnson of Little Green Footballs remains in the "Service" section (a copy for future reference is here if/when the existing link changes), with a stunning quantitative modification:
$4,000 in value for 100 hours is $40 an hour, tax-free. For most students, because they pay no federal income tax, this will amount to an annual handout of $4,000 less the value of the service they provide (bravely assuming that it's productive), which would be at most the private-sector equivalent of about $12 an hour with benefits, or $1,200.
Space doesn't permit me to go into all of the mind-boggling distortions this would lead to, but here's a start (some information was obtained from the tables listed at this page at collegeboard.com):
* Thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of the roughly 3.2 million high school seniors who graduate each year who aren't cut out for college, or aren't yet ready for what's left of its rigors, will not go into private-sector jobs that might make sense for them, but will instead erroneously or prematurely choose higher education, partially because of this perk.
* Administering the program will require a vast bureaucracy, including verifications that kids indeed attended eligible schools (full-time?), indeed did the service, didn't drop out as soon as their service was completed, etc., etc. This bureaucracy will almost certainly impose paperwork requirements on colleges, as well as charitable and government organizations, that can ill afford it.
* Roughly 60% of high-school grads go directly on to college. Let's estimate that this puts 8 million kids in college at any one time (I think the number is higher, but I can't prove it right now). If they are required to put in the service (that's what the site still says), the program would cost Uncle Sam $32 billion a year (8 million x $4,000).
* In the last fiscal year, the entire Department of Education spent $66 billion. This one program would expand the Department's budget by almost 50%, before adding a dime for administration.
* More practically, are there 800 million hours (8 million kids at 100 hours each) of meaningful community service work out there? Even if there is, how do you manage a program with the equivalent of almost 400,000 (corrected from 4 million earlier) full-time employees efficiently and effectively? Wal-Mart, which is I believe the nation's largest employer, has 2.1 million employees. (Ironic/never happen suggestion of the day: Maybe Uncle Sam should outsource program administration to Wal-mart. At least they might keep it under control).
If President Bush had proposed this, the howls would have been never-ending. As it is, I suspect there will be little if any media notice -- of the cost, or the coercion.
I also copied the paragraph about College Serve-Study because its reference to "instead of jobs in dining halls and libraries" seems more than a little condescending -- and all too typical. Apparently, "community service" bought for $40 an hour is more noble than doing jobs that serve actual customers.
To the extent there is any coverage, I expect fawning praise and a contention that Obama really won't "require" it -- despite the plain language and the web page's current title:
"Voluntary" or "universal" -- which is it, guys?
—Tom Blumer is president of a training and development company in Mason, Ohio, and is a contributing editor to NewsBusters
Ich bin Ala-awkbarph- Number of posts : 2310
Age : 73
Location : The Caliphate of Zarr Chasmistan, WV
Registration date : 2008-01-28
Re: Quit your job--go to school earn $40/hr!!
Well Terri what do you think about requiring public service in exchange for college expenses?
Is that a bad thing?
Is that a bad thing?
sodbuster- Number of posts : 1890
Location : wv
Registration date : 2008-09-05
Re: Quit your job--go to school earn $40/hr!!
sodbuster wrote:Well Terri what do you think about requiring public service in exchange for college expenses?
Is that a bad thing?
Does every student get school paid for with less than 20 hours a week "service?" Or, just those whose family earns less than $250,000? And, where does this promise of $40,000/per student come from, so? Gambling revenues?
Last edited by Armon Ayers on Sun Nov 09, 2008 8:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
Ich bin Ala-awkbarph- Number of posts : 2310
Age : 73
Location : The Caliphate of Zarr Chasmistan, WV
Registration date : 2008-01-28
Re: Quit your job--go to school earn $40/hr!!
Well Terri as I understand that was just a work in progress and might need tweaked a little bit.
sodbuster- Number of posts : 1890
Location : wv
Registration date : 2008-09-05
Re: Quit your job--go to school earn $40/hr!!
sodbuster wrote:Well as I understand that was just a work in progress and might need tweaked a little bit.
While you are tweaking this one, answer this one: if students are going to get $40,000 credit for 100 hours of volunteer service, how much value should I get for my volunteer service?
Ich bin Ala-awkbarph- Number of posts : 2310
Age : 73
Location : The Caliphate of Zarr Chasmistan, WV
Registration date : 2008-01-28
Re: Quit your job--go to school earn $40/hr!!
Well if you go back to school I would imagine you would get the same education benefits as someone younger.
Just remember lots of people your age have lost their jobs the past 8 years and need to get re-educated for the jobs of the future.
Just remember lots of people your age have lost their jobs the past 8 years and need to get re-educated for the jobs of the future.
sodbuster- Number of posts : 1890
Location : wv
Registration date : 2008-09-05
Re: Quit your job--go to school earn $40/hr!!
Armon Ayers wrote:sodbuster wrote:Well Terri what do you think about requiring public service in exchange for college expenses?
Is that a bad thing?
Does every student get school paid for with less than 2 hours a week "service?" Or, just those whose family earns less than $250,000? And, where does this promise of $40,000/per student come from, so? Gambling revenues?
Ah, Terry, you hit the nail on the head. Obama could promise whatever he wanted; now comes the painful part of delivery.
The 250,000 dollar tax increase mark will most surely be lowered. I expect it to be lowered all the way down, but at least to 100,000 dollars or so within six months of the new session.
We conservatives are best left tracking these decisions, their costs, and their consequences. Our candidate will need this data in 2010, 2012, 2014, 2016, 2018, and 2020, when the pending financial and military disaster is still "Bush's fault."
SheikBen- Moderator
- Number of posts : 3445
Age : 48
Location : The Soviet Socialist Republic of Illinois
Registration date : 2008-01-02
Re: Quit your job--go to school earn $40/hr!!
Well I had hoped you guys would put the rancor and confrontational attitudes behind you and everybody just pull togethor for Old Glory.
Give the guy a chance for Pete's sake he is not even in office for a couple months.
It;s hard to predict how bad stuff will be by then.
Remember we are all in this togethor.
Afterall the Democrats have a mandate for change from the people.
They want change. They want good jobs. Hi-tech jobs with good wages.
They want health care. They want to end the occupation of Iraq and they want energy independence and self sufficiency.
So if the republicans are seen as obstructionists they will be left on the ash heap of history. imo
Give the guy a chance for Pete's sake he is not even in office for a couple months.
It;s hard to predict how bad stuff will be by then.
Remember we are all in this togethor.
Afterall the Democrats have a mandate for change from the people.
They want change. They want good jobs. Hi-tech jobs with good wages.
They want health care. They want to end the occupation of Iraq and they want energy independence and self sufficiency.
So if the republicans are seen as obstructionists they will be left on the ash heap of history. imo
sodbuster- Number of posts : 1890
Location : wv
Registration date : 2008-09-05
Re: Quit your job--go to school earn $40/hr!!
As a Republican, I stand for low-paying, low-tech jobs.
SheikBen- Moderator
- Number of posts : 3445
Age : 48
Location : The Soviet Socialist Republic of Illinois
Registration date : 2008-01-02
Re: Quit your job--go to school earn $40/hr!!
Sherm,
I am suggesting that we Republicans should sit back and let the Dems do what they want to, and if you are right that they have good ideas, very well and good. They will succeed.
And if you are wrong and they are bad ideas (as I believe they are), then we'll see clearly to replace them.
What's so bad about that?
I am suggesting that we Republicans should sit back and let the Dems do what they want to, and if you are right that they have good ideas, very well and good. They will succeed.
And if you are wrong and they are bad ideas (as I believe they are), then we'll see clearly to replace them.
What's so bad about that?
SheikBen- Moderator
- Number of posts : 3445
Age : 48
Location : The Soviet Socialist Republic of Illinois
Registration date : 2008-01-02
Re: Quit your job--go to school earn $40/hr!!
Well I would rather you put national interest #1.
Instead of just "sitting back" why not join in?
We are all in this togethor.
I figure many things will be tried and some will work better than others.
But clearly the people want something done as the current status quo is no good.
I am glad to see Obama is not going to shut republicans out the way the Democrats have been shut out lo these many years.
So I hope the republicans will accept his offer with good heart.
For the sake of the country.
Instead of just "sitting back" why not join in?
We are all in this togethor.
I figure many things will be tried and some will work better than others.
But clearly the people want something done as the current status quo is no good.
I am glad to see Obama is not going to shut republicans out the way the Democrats have been shut out lo these many years.
So I hope the republicans will accept his offer with good heart.
For the sake of the country.
sodbuster- Number of posts : 1890
Location : wv
Registration date : 2008-09-05
Re: Quit your job--go to school earn $40/hr!!
By bi-partisanship Obama means that he wants to spread the blame.
In other words, he wants more courtesy, much more courtesy in fact, than Democrats had ever given Bush until he turned socialist with his bailout.
If the Dems plans work, well and good. But if they don't, let them clearly show that their ideas are wrong.
In other words, he wants more courtesy, much more courtesy in fact, than Democrats had ever given Bush until he turned socialist with his bailout.
If the Dems plans work, well and good. But if they don't, let them clearly show that their ideas are wrong.
SheikBen- Moderator
- Number of posts : 3445
Age : 48
Location : The Soviet Socialist Republic of Illinois
Registration date : 2008-01-02
Re: Quit your job--go to school earn $40/hr!!
I fail to comprehend why we should join in for more taxing and spending, more mandates, more government control, less individual liberties, more socialism, when we oppose those things.
Re: Quit your job--go to school earn $40/hr!!
We shouldn't, Steph. I think the Dems are already planning "damage control."
This is their baby, let them raise it. If their plans work (and I am more than just casually skeptical), well and good, but when they fail, we need to make darned sure that our names are never attached to them. The smart Republican allows the public to see EXACTLY what they bought last Tuesday, such that they can make sure they are never duped in that same manner again.
This is their baby, let them raise it. If their plans work (and I am more than just casually skeptical), well and good, but when they fail, we need to make darned sure that our names are never attached to them. The smart Republican allows the public to see EXACTLY what they bought last Tuesday, such that they can make sure they are never duped in that same manner again.
SheikBen- Moderator
- Number of posts : 3445
Age : 48
Location : The Soviet Socialist Republic of Illinois
Registration date : 2008-01-02
Re: Quit your job--go to school earn $40/hr!!
I agree with you completely, Mike. It is Sherm who is insisting if we don't hop on the bandwagon we're not supporting the "national interest". He also says we need to "pull together for Old Glory".
Seems to me he's at the very least questioning our patriotism.
Seems to me he's at the very least questioning our patriotism.
Re: Quit your job--go to school earn $40/hr!!
I say, "IMPEACH OBAMA!" I hope that Rockefeller spends the next four years looking for a trigger to impeach him--like he did with Boosh!
Ich bin Ala-awkbarph- Number of posts : 2310
Age : 73
Location : The Caliphate of Zarr Chasmistan, WV
Registration date : 2008-01-28
Re: Quit your job--go to school earn $40/hr!!
sodbuster wrote:Afterall the Democrats have a mandate for change from the people.
As I've already explained Sherman, no they don't. They have a mandate for lower taxes and a strong national defense among other things.
Aaron- Number of posts : 9841
Age : 58
Location : Putnam County for now
Registration date : 2007-12-28
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