Legislating from the Bench

wvsasha wrote:

SamCogar wrote:You all control the "vote" in WV and that is why our School System is in the "cesspool" of socio-economic degeneration..

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If we CONTROL the vote in this state then Blow Hard Joe wouldn't have gotten anywhere near a second term!

You and your husband are not the only Teachers and their families that voted.

Anyway, you reply proves my point exactly. I don't remember Joe promising you teachers anything this time so of course you wouldn't vote for him..

And here is another reason .........

why our School System is in the "cesspool" of socio-economic degeneration

School confusion

Public school calendars around West Virginia can be dismaying. State law mandates that students receive 180 days of instruction per year, yet this goal often is missed.

State law also sets starting and stopping dates. When many school days are wiped out by bad weather, or elections, or deer season, or furnace breakdowns - or teacher "professional development" or faculty senate days, and "outside school environment" days, and "out of calendar" days, or parent-pupil-teacher conferences, etc. - it's impossible to attain 180 days of learning.

Kanawha County's current holiday vacation is a dismal example of calendar chaos. Before Christmas, students were out for a weekend, then were required to attend on a Monday for a few hours that were mostly filled with parties. Teachers worked the rest of Monday and Tuesday on something called "instructional support and enhancement."

Today, the day after New Year's, students remain on holiday, but teachers get paid for parent conferences and "professional development" - but most won't show up, because they already met those requirements.

What a tangled mess. Why can't school calendars be scheduled more intelligently? Why are schools so mired in extraneous activity that takes time away from the fundamental task of learning?

Intensified education is crucial in the snowballing high-tech "information age." Around the world, countries are beefing up knowledge so that young people will have good futures and economic prosperity will grow. Nations producing less-educated youths will suffer declines. West Virginia's school year actually should be lengthened, at least to 200 days.

http://www.sundaygazettemail.com/Opinion/Editorials/200901030312

You teachers count every day that you yourselves are supposed to be on the job as an "instructional day" ....... and that has nothinng to do with students being "instructed in learning subject matter".

You even count the last week and a half to two weeks after all testing has been completed at the end of the school year as "instructional days" ....... when the only things that are happening is parties, ... games, .... school trips to parks, dams, bowling alleys, amusement parks, etc .... and anything else you can think of to keep them occupied.

My guess is if one counted up all the "non-instruction time", ..... including the "non-instruction classroom time" the students would be mighty lucky if they got 140 "instructional days" each year.



And their ACTUAL test grades (non weighted/adjusted) and knowledge base proves this to be true. What is it now, 65% correct answers earns one an "A" on a test?

.

Al Gore's Inconvient Lie
The Patriot
The Godfather 1,2 and 3
Finding Nemo
12 Angry Men
We Were Soldiers
Tora Tora Tora
Pearl Harbor
Titanic
Miracle on 34th Street
A Christmas Story

What do these movies all have in common? They are all movies watched by my oldest two during school time. All during instruction time.

The younger two aren't home or I could likely double the list.

Sam - it would be nice to have an intelligent calendar for once. But teachers aren't the ones that put it together - some *lovely* people at the board office do that. Every once in a while, teachers are asked to "vote" on their "favorite" but interestingly, the one that the teachers requested is rarely the one followed the next year.

Teachers are paid for 200 days in their contract. Students attend 180 days of that. The extra days are for before and after the school year, faculty senates and professional development days. The 180 days are kept for student time. Now - whether individual teachers CHOOSE to take students on field trips (whether you think the trip is instructional based or not) or have "parties" or what-have-you, that is up to the individual teacher.

Kanawha County has tried to cracked down on loss of instructional time (dances on school time, pep rallies on school time, etc) but I notice that enforcement of that varies from school to school.

And you won't get very many arguments from me about what grades actually represent. Too many teachers give bonus points for bringing in tissue boxes - what does that have to do with math? Too many grades are based on things that very little to do with actual knowledge of the material. But the teacher grade book is a sacred cow that the legislature has allowed to be created.

Aaron wrote:Al Gore's Inconvient Lie
The Patriot
The Godfather 1,2 and 3
Finding Nemo
12 Angry Men
We Were Soldiers
Tora Tora Tora
Pearl Harbor
Titanic
Miracle on 34th Street
A Christmas Story

What do these movies all have in common? They are all movies watched by my oldest two during school time. All during instruction time.

The younger two aren't home or I could likely double the list.

I could justify all but the last 3 movies (and finding nemo) for you as long as they were used as a springboard to further assignments/debate/discussions/comparisons and so on. I will say that those in your list (including the last 3 and finding nemo) were far better than the ones teachers used to show back in the 90s before admin realized the amount of time being wasted on "movie day" which was being used as classroom behavior modification rewards.

I'm sure the teachers could justify them as well. The kids saw them as passing time while the teacher was off doing something else as most are watched the week before Christmas and the last two weeks of school.

Personally, I favor extending instructional time from 180 days to 210. Perhaps then we could truely get 180 days of instructional time and might even improve our educational system a little along the way.

Aaron wrote:Personally, I favor extending instructional time from 180 days to 210. Perhaps then we could truely get 180 days of instructional time and might even improve our educational system a little along the way.

I would be too. However, just making sure here....you are aware that teachers would be paid more?

Yep, and I don't have a problem with that.

Hell, I'd be all for making them some of the highest paid teachers in the nation if they would do away with tenure, get rid of ineffective and irresponsible teachers, do away with the mandate that principals and VP's must be former teachers and get back to educating our kids instead of teaching for test.

But I don't think the union would be willing to do any of that, include extending the school year as the amount of time off was involved in the decision most chose teaching as a career.

wvsasha wrote: I could justify all but the last 3 movies (and finding nemo) for you as long as they were used as a springboard to further assignments/debate/discussions/comparisons and so on.

GIMME A BREAK

There is enough material in their texbooks for them to use as a springboard to further debate/discussions/comparisons and so on for four years, not just one.

And their assignments should be to read and study that material so as to be prepared for the former mentioned.

Teachers are supposed to be teaching students to "think" ....... and when watching movies and TV the "thinking" is being done for them. All those movies mentioned by Aaron were specifically produced to make money via their entertainment value ...... and not for the educational value for the viewer.

I have seen a few times a recent commercial about a new sit-com about to be aired and at least twice during the "action" someone "pops up" and says to the viewer, .... "It is really funny".

DUH, it is getting pretty damn bad when kids and adolescents have to be told when to laugh at something.

And that Sasha, is proof positive they are incapable of thinking.

One consulation though, since most of the current crop of teachers are incapable of thinking, ....... one can't very well expect them to teach a student to think, ...... now can we?

.

well then Sam - the whole world might as well pack their picnic baskets now and march themselves off to hell.....sounds like to you, nothing is ever done correctly or in sufficient quantity to please you.

Let me know when you are ready to get off your A$$ and do something about it.

Cheers.

Stephanie wrote:Sasha,

I'd be interested in seeing it. I do wonder just how receptive teachers will be. Perhaps something along those lines could be used to increase the salaries of good teachers and attract teachers in areas where shortages are faced. The bottom line is, if you can't get the union to accept something it's not likely to be implemented.

It's more of an idea that I"m working through than an actual working document, although it wouldn't be difficult to start one. I think the younger teachers would be willing to work with such a system but the ones who are closer to retirement and/or more entrenched in their ways would balk and not want to even give it a fair hearing.

wvsasha wrote:

Stephanie wrote:Sasha,

I'd be interested in seeing it. I do wonder just how receptive teachers will be. Perhaps something along those lines could be used to increase the salaries of good teachers and attract teachers in areas where shortages are faced. The bottom line is, if you can't get the union to accept something it's not likely to be implemented.

It's more of an idea that I"m working through than an actual working document, although it wouldn't be difficult to start one. I think the younger teachers would be willing to work with such a system but the ones who are closer to retirement and/or more entrenched in their ways would balk and not want to even give it a fair hearing.

And there in lies the problem. The union will eat its young, never mind go along with any changes the younger teachers are willing to implement.

Kate's movie list since attending BHS.....Oct 2006-present.

An Inconvenient Truth (3x)
Shrek
Finding Nemo
Iron Man
Wally
Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer
Frosty the Snowman
1776
Hoot
Madagascar
Year Without a Santa Claus
The Little Drummer Boy (2x)
Follow the River
3 Episodes of MASH
Several Episodes of Dora the Explorer & Diego


She's describing other movies she can't recall the names of like an animated film about a man turning into a bear. Also, numerous documentaries in her biology & HAP classes. She says, "Mom, wayyy too many to remember."

That girl keeps remembering more of them.

The Devil Wears Prada
A Knight's Tale
Princess Diaries

I didn't know Movie Biz was part of the Putnam county library.

Aaron,

I swear to you, the semester she took Spanish 1 (A course she had already completed but the school would not give her credit for), she watched more movies at school than she watched outside of school in a year.

Because she had to take an online class to graduate in 3 years (which was the only concession PCSD was willing to make for this former h/s'er), taking Spanish II online was the obvious choice. No way she was going to subject herself to another semester of that.

The two that have graduated, one in college, one not, both said pretty much the same thing. The last two years of their high school years was pretty much a waste for both of them.

Zachary, a junior now wants to drop out and take his GED and go to college. The only thing that keeps him going is he needs a second foreigh language to go to WVU.

Alex works enough to maintain his grades so he can play baseball. It's a shame that we waste millions of tax payer dollars to babysit teenagers.

Everybody wants public education to work - and work well. When it works as well as it does in Putnam County, it should be cause for celebration by administrators, teachers, parents and students.

It's a real achievement, and it takes real work by everyone.

http://www.dailymail.com/Opinion/Editorials/200901020268

You should have printed the entire article Ziggy.

Putnam County test as well as it does for one reason. From day one, they teach to the test and that's it. I have seen brand new text books left on the shelves and never opened because they weren't beneficial in testing.

When we moved to Putnam from Kanawha, my 4th grader was repeating work he had done in 3rd grade, my 3rd grader was repeating work he had done in the 2nd grade and my 1st grader was repeating work he had done in kindergarten.

We no longer educate our children. We prepare them for test. It's sad. From the article.

IF taxpayers in Putnam County are wondering how the schools are doing, they are exemplary times 13.
This year, the state Office of Education Performance Audits accredited 13 of the county's 22 schools as "exemplary" - more than any other county in the state. The standards include being among the top 10 percent of schools in the state that earn the highest combined ranking on reading-language arts, math, science, and social studies sections of the WESTEST and the West Virginia Writing Assessment.

Aaron wrote:When we moved to Putnam from Kanawha, my 4th grader was repeating work he had done in 3rd grade, my 3rd grader was repeating work he had done in the 2nd grade and my 1st grader was repeating work he had done in kindergarten.

wow....that's really interesting Aaron -- this year we moved from Kanawha to Putnam as well and my 4th grader has had to bust her butt to stay up with her peers. It's almost like she was absent for about 1/2 a year or so and missed that curriculum. We've had some late night homework sessions "catching up" so she can do the homework. I think we've about caught up but it's been challenging.

Now - for my 8th grader - we've been very frustrated - if she'd stayed at KCS, she would have been taking her 9th grade Science this year, Algebra I, and pre-AP English. But Putnam County doesn't "do" 9th grade science in 8th grade nor the pre-AP english class. And they screwed up her schedule so she is in General 8th Math. We realized this one about the 3rd day of school and spent the next 8 weeks jumping up and down via phone, email and in person to anyone who would listen but by the time they finally admitted the mistake, the first 9 weeks was gone and the receiving teacher wouldn't accept her. We also tried to go the Virtual School route to get her algebra credit but the school wouldn't recommend her. Talk about some pi$$ed off parents.

Luckily the high school is on block schedule so if she doubles up her math class next year, she will catch up and be back on track for her math classes.

So - in one child we have found Putnam County to be "ahead" of KCS, but in the other child, the opposite.

wvsasha wrote:

Aaron wrote:Personally, I favor extending instructional time from 180 days to 210. Perhaps then we could truely get 180 days of instructional time and might even improve our educational system a little along the way.

I would be too. However, just making sure here....you are aware that teachers would be paid more?

HA, are you two serious, .....210 days?

HELLS BELLS, you can't get them to come to work now ....... even when you pay them an extra bonus for doing so.

Your are right Sasha, ...... and they would probably DEMAND two (2) additional Sick Days ..... and three (3) additional Personal Days.



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wvsasha wrote:well then Sam - the whole world might as well pack their picnic baskets now and march themselves off to hell.....sounds like to you, nothing is ever done correctly or in sufficient quantity to please you.

Let me know when you are ready to get off your A$$ and do something about it.

Cheers.

Sasha, all great journeys begin with the 1st step.

And my "first step" to ....... get off my A$$ and do something about it ....... is to convince you there is a drastic need to reform the School System ....... and it appears I have badly stumbled in doing so.

My great journey seems to be a "path to nowhere" because of all the "roadblocks" that I encounter at every turn.


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How is it voluntary if it is a prerequisite to participate in an extra-curricular activity?

How can you ask such stupid questions?

Participation in extra-curricular activities is voluntary.

SamCogar wrote:
Sasha, all great journeys begin with the 1st step.

And my "first step" to ....... get off my A$$ and do something about it ....... is to convince you there is a drastic need to reform the School System ....... and it appears I have badly stumbled in doing so.

My great journey seems to be a "path to nowhere" because of all the "roadblocks" that I encounter at every turn.

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Sam - if you realize - I do agree with you on a lot of points in which the school system needs reform. And I feel that I am doing my part in my classroom, with the teachers that I co-teach with everyday, and the administrators that I work for. I made a lot of positive changes for the school that I was assigned to last year - i hope at least a couple of those changes stuck for this year. This year though, I am back in a classroom, teaching students and working with my special education population who are struggling with the general curriculum.

But....I am one teacher.....I am one person.....I don't like to think about going to the union to use them as a vehicle to propose some of the policy changes I want - the unions have such a negative feel to them both to the teachers and to the public. I would prefer to actually go to the Head (Dr. Duerring) and see what he thinks. But he scares the hell out of me.

TerryRC wrote:How is it voluntary if it is a prerequisite to participate in an extra-curricular activity?

How can you ask such stupid questions?

Participation in extra-curricular activities is voluntary.

I don't see it as a stupid question Terry.

Unless of course we as citizens are expected to give up or rights whenever we do something voluntarily.

Is that your contention?

And so is coming to school to teach.

So?

When they were hired, this wasn't part of the deal. If you want to drug-test new teachers, fine. The teachers already on the rolls should be waved.

Also, every member of the school board should be tested.

TerryRC wrote:And so is coming to school to teach.

So?

When they were hired, this wasn't part of the deal. If you want to drug-test new teachers, fine. The teachers already on the rolls should be waved.

Also, every member of the school board should be tested.

See my previous post. I had not realized I saved it.

But as for your reply, circumstances change just as they did with extra curricular activities.

If conditions now warrant testing those who participate in those activities, then why can they not change to warrant testing teachers.

And I think all emploes of the BOE should be subject to the same testing policy. I don't have a problem with that.