I'm 63 and I'm Tired

A right wing potential terrorist friend of mine sent this to me. It pretty much describes how I feel and where I stand.

Cato

"I'm 63 and I'm Tired"
by Robert A. Hall

I'm 63. Except for one semester in college when jobs were scarce and a six-month period when I was between jobs, but job-hunting every day, I've worked, hard, since I was 18. Despite some health challenges, I still put in 50-hour weeks, and haven't called in sick in seven or eight years. I make a good salary, but I didn't inherit my job or my income, and I worked to get where I am. Given the economy, there's no retirement in sight, and I'm tired. Very tired.

I'm tired of being told that I have to "spread the wealth" to people who don't have my work ethic. I'm tired of being told the government will take the money I earned, by force if necessary, and give it to people too lazy to earn it.

I'm tired of being told that I have to pay more taxes to "keep people in their homes." Sure, if they lost their jobs or got sick, I'm willing to help. But if they bought McMansions at three times the price of our paid-off, $250,000 condo, on one-third of my salary, then let the left-wing Congress-critters who passed F ann ie and Freddie and the Community Reinvestment Act that created the bubble help them with their own money.

I'm tired of being told how bad America is by left-wing millionaires like Michael Moore, George Soros and Hollywood Entertainers who live in luxury because of the opportunities America offers. In thirty years, if they get their way, the United States will have the economy of Zimbabwe , the freedom of the press of China , the crime and violence of Mexico , the tolerance for Christian people of Iran , and the freedom of speech of Venezuela .

I'm tired of being told that Islam is a "Religion of Peace," when every day I can read dozens of stories of Muslim men killing their sisters, wives and daughters for their family "honor"; of Muslims rioting over some slight offense; of Muslims murdering Christian and Jews because they aren't "believers"; of Muslims burning schools for girls; of Muslims stoning teenage rape victims to death for "adultery"; of Muslims mutilating the genitals of little girls; all in the name of Allah, because the Qur'an and Shari'a law tells them to.

I'm tired of being told that "race doesn't matter" in the post-racial world of Obama, when it's all that matters in affirmative action jobs, lower college admission and graduation standards for minorities (harming them the most), government contract set-asides, tolerance for the ghetto culture of violence and fatherless children that hurts minorities more than anyone, and in the appointment of U.S. Senators from Illinois.

I think it's very cool that we have a black president and that a black child is doing her homework at the desk where Lincoln wrote the Emancipation Proclamation. I just wish the black president was Condi Rice, or someone who believes more in freedom and the individual and less arrogantly of an all-knowing government.

I'm tired of a news media that thinks Bush's fundraising and inaugural expenses were obscene, but that think Obama's, at triple the cost, were wonderful; that thinks Bush exercising daily was a waste of presidential time, but Obama exercising is a great example for the public to control weight and stress; that picked over every line of Bush's military records, but never demanded that Kerry release his; that slammed Palin, with two years as governor, for being too inexperienced for VP, but touted Obama with three years as senator as potentially the best president ever. Wonder why people are dropping their subscriptions or switching to Fox News? Get a clue. I didn't vote for Bush in 2000, but the media and Kerry drove me to his camp in 2004.

I'm tired of being told that out of "tolerance for other cultures" we must let Saudi Arabia use our oil money to fund mosques and mandrassa Islamic schools to preach hate in America , while no American group is allowed to fund a church, synagogue or religious school in Saudi Arabia to teach love and tolerance.

I'm tired of being told I must lower my living standard to fight global warming, which no one is allowed to debate. My wife and I live in a two-bedroom apartment and carpool together five miles to our jobs. We also own a three-bedroom condo where our daughter and granddaughter live. Our carbon footprint is about 5% of Al Gore's, and if you're greener than Gore, you're green enough.

I'm tired of being told that drug addicts have a disease, and I must help support and treat them, and pay for the damage they do. Did a giant germ rush out of a dark alley, grab them, and stuff white powder up their noses while they tried to fight it off? I don't think Gay people choose to be Gay, but I damn sure think druggies chose to take drugs. And I'm tired of harassment from cool people treating me like a freak when I tell them I never tried marijuana.

I'm tired of illegal aliens being called "undocumented workers," especially the ones who aren't working, but are living on welfare or crime. What's next? Calling drug dealers, "Undocumented Pharmacists"? And, no, I'm not against Hispanics. Most of them are Catholic, and it's been a few hundred years since Catholics wanted to kill me for my religion. I'm willing to fast track for citizenship any Hispanic person, who can speak English, doesn't have a criminal record and who is self-supporting without family on welfare, or who serves honorably for three years in our military.... Those are the citizens we need.

I'm tired of latte liberals and journalists, who would never wear the uniform of the Republic themselves, or let their entitlement-handicapped kids near a recruiting station, trashing our military. They and their kids can sit at home, never having to make split-second decisions under life and death circumstances, and bad mouth better people than themselves. Do bad things happen in war? You bet. Do our troops sometimes misbehave? Sure. Does this compare with the atrocities that were the policy of our enemies for the last fifty years and still are? Not even close. So here's the deal. I'll let myself be subjected to all the humiliation and abuse that was heaped on terrorists at Abu Ghraib or Gitmo, and the critics can let themselves be subject to captivity by the Muslims, who tortured and beheaded Daniel Pearl in Pakistan, or the Muslims who tortured and murdered Marine Lt. Col. William Higgins in Lebanon, or the Muslims who ran the blood-spattered Al Qaeda torture rooms our troops found in Iraq, or the Muslims who cut off the heads of schoolgirls in Indonesia, because the girls were Christian. Then we'll compare notes. British and American soldiers are the only troops in history that civilians came to for help and handouts, instead of hiding from in fear.

I'm tired of people telling me that their party has a corner on virtue and the other party has a corner on corruption. Read the papers; bums are bipartisan. And I'm tired of people telling me we need bipartisanship. I live in Illinois , where the "Illinois Combine" of Democrats has worked to loot the public for years. Not to mention the tax cheats in Obama's cabinet.

I'm tired of hearing wealthy athletes, entertainers and politicians of both parties talking about innocent mistakes, stupid mistakes or youthful mistakes, when we all know they think their only mistake was getting caught. I'm tired of people with a sense of entitlement, rich or poor.

Speaking of poor, I'm tired of hearing people with air-conditioned homes, color TVs and two cars called poor. The majority of Americans didn't have that in 1970, but we didn't know we were "poor." The poverty pimps have to keep changing the definition of poor to keep the dollars flowing.

I'm real tired of people who don't take responsibility for their lives and actions. I'm tired of hearing them blame the government, or discrimination or big-whatever for their problems.

Yes, I'm damn tired. But I'm also glad to be 63. Because, mostly, I'm not going to have to see the world these people are making. I'm just sorry for my granddaughter.

Robert A. Hall is a Marine Vietnam veteran who served five terms in the Massachusetts State Senate.

Yes, I'm damn tired. But I'm also glad to be 63. Because, mostly, I'm not going to have to see the world these people are making. I'm just sorry for my granddaughter.

Every American generation has had some version of this prediction of gloom and doom. They have either been all wrong, or things have been getting worse in America for 150 years.

ziggy wrote:

Yes, I'm damn tired. But I'm also glad to be 63. Because, mostly, I'm not going to have to see the world these people are making. I'm just sorry for my granddaughter.

Every American generation has had some version of this prediction of gloom and doom. They have either been all wrong, or things have been getting worse in America for 150 years.

It's a little closer to 100 in the United States of America.

OK. They have either been all wrong, or things have been getting worse in America for close to 100 years.

I'm 63 and I'm Tired.

I'm 64, and I'm not a damn bit tired, you lazy Wimp. Get up and fight for what you believe in, or shut the hell up.

ziggy wrote:

I'm 63 and I'm Tired.

I'm 64, and I'm not a damn bit tired, you lazy Wimp. Get up and fight for what you believe in, or shut the hell up.

Why, so you can become indignant and tell him from your throne up on high and tell him in your holier then thou attitude how wrong he is?

ziggy wrote:You are "sick and tired of people like" me because we peak your conscience to the realization that your hatred of homosexuals and other social minorities is morally wrong. Rather than confront your sins of unfounded hatreds...

So what gives you the right to project your values on others? Because they do? Is that how it works?

So what gives you the right to project your values on others? Because they do? Is that how it works?

That is what public forums are about- people projecting their version of values on others. If others don't like the heat- if they can't take as good as they give- then they should stay out of the kitchen.

LOL, whatever you say Ziggy, whatever you say. I just wonder if you'll remember that at a later point in time.

Why do you think Aaron hates homosexuals, Ziggy? I've never been left with that impression of him.

Aaron, do you hate homosexuals?

Stephanie wrote:Why do you think Aaron hates homosexuals, Ziggy? I've never been left with that impression of him.

If I suggested that Aaron hates homosexuals, I was not being at all clear. I was suggesting that of Cato, and not of Aaron. Sorry, Aaron, if I was unclear about that.

ziggy wrote:

I'm 63 and I'm Tired.

I'm 64, and I'm not a damn bit tired, you lazy Wimp. Get up and fight for what you believe in, or shut the hell up.

There are quite a few people here in Braxton County that are "not a damn bit tired" either and from what I hear they have never been a damn bit tired ...... and many most likely have never broke a sweat out of fear of maybe getting a little tired.

Geeze, and many of those "neversweats" no longer even have to "wait in line" the 1st of every month now that they have "automatic deposit".

ziggy wrote:That is what public forums are about- people projecting their version of values on others.

You got that right for many, "their version of values" and not necessarily "their own values"

ziggy wrote:

Stephanie wrote:Why do you think Aaron hates homosexuals, Ziggy? I've never been left with that impression of him.

If I suggested that Aaron hates homosexuals, I was not being at all clear. I was suggesting that of Cato, and not of Aaron. Sorry, Aaron, if I was unclear about that.

GIMME A BREAK, ..... Ziggy, just because I don't trust either you or TRC, and/or just because I wouldn't want to be a friend to either of you, or live next to you, or work with you, or drink a beer with you, or rent/sale property to you, .......doesn't mean that I hate either of you.

Hate is actually a "personal thingy" that one acquires whenever they think and/or believe that another person or entity "has harmed or injured them or theirs or will harm or injure them or theirs".

Using the word "hate" in any other context is disengenuous at best.

ziggy wrote:

Stephanie wrote:Why do you think Aaron hates homosexuals, Ziggy? I've never been left with that impression of him.

If I suggested that Aaron hates homosexuals, I was not being at all clear. I was suggesting that of Cato, and not of Aaron. Sorry, Aaron, if I was unclear about that.

You are right you aren't the least bit clear and you are bold faced liar right on top of that.

Not once have I ever even remotely suggested I hate homosexuals. All I have ever said is that I would not rent to a homosexual couple, an adulterous couple, or an unmarried couple. You and TerryRC jumped all over the fact I won't rent to a homosexual couple and never so much of even bothered to mention that I wouldn't rent to an adulterous couple of an unmarried couple. All either of you managed to prove is how hypocritical you are and not to mention jsut how stupid.

As as my hatred of homosexuals goes, something else I have said that you either were too bias or ignorant comprehend is that I don't care what consenting adults do in the privacy of their own home. That's between them and their partner. Just don't use it as a crutch to obtain some special rights or demand using the force of law that I accept ones actions as normal when I don't.

Finally, I would suggest you read Tammy Bruce's book, the Death of Right and Wrong. Tammy Bruce, openly lesbian, scrapes more understanding of liberty and what I am talking about out from under her little toe than you comprehend in your whole body. I have alot for respect for her, many many times more than I will ever have for the likes of blowhard idiots like you.

Ziggy's comment wasn't directed at me. I responded to a post directed at Cato. He did imply that Cato's hates homosexuals and in his defense, while I have seen where Cato doesn't wish to rent to homosexuals, I haven't seen any post that would indicate he hates them.

And to answer your question Stephanie, no, I don't hate homosexuals. In fact, as Sam points out, hate is a very strong word and there is very little that I can actually say I do hate.

Please accept my apologies, Ziggy. It was late, I was tired and distracted and just not following the conversation closely enough to open my trap.

I figured that, Stephanie, because nothing else would explain it. It is not like you to make such careless charges about we who post here.

No problem.

Cato wrote:Not once have I ever even remotely suggested I hate homosexuals.

Cato, you seethe with hatred of anyone or any groups who do not share your particular versions of absolute morality and absolute "principles", to wit:

I'm finding more and more that people are getting fed up with being tolerant of muslims, homosexuals, illegals, blacks, and the like and then being crapped on by these very same people. Then on top of that being belittled and condemned for not being tolerant enough both by these groups, academia, and then by those who are suppose to represent us.

Here in the good ol' USA it may not be as blatant but it is bad enough and getting worse everyday. In fact you've seen quite an example of the so called tolerance mindset right here on this board. Need I remind you of the rounds Ziggy, Terry. and I have had over my choosing not to rent to homosexual couples.

Let me take this further with you. Last tax year my wife and I paid enough in federal taxes alone to send our son to college for a year and a half. We could ahve paid all his expenses, from the total cost of college to his room and board and transportation. We could have even provided some spending money. However, we paid the money to the jerks in DC so they could pass it out to every peice of perverted and useless garbage that comes down the pike. While our kid borrowed the money to go to school the politicans were doling the money my wife and I worked for to useless trash, illegals, and baby factories or sending it over seas to countries where the people hate our guts.

Let's go even further. Some years ago one or our kids graduated in the top 5% of thier graduating class. Their math skills exceeded those of kids graduating from northern Virginia when they placement test at JMU in the math department. WVU offered $500 at semester to attend there. Our kid chose to attend JMU instead, since it was the better school, and major in math. At the same time a black girl in the same class who wasn't in the top 5% of the class received a FREE RIDE to WVU because of being a minority, I guess. She lasted all of 6 weeks. She came home and sat on her black butt, doing nothing.

This morning I was helping a contractor of ours send some pictures by email. We got to talking about this very thing. He hit the nail on the head when he pointed to his arm and said this is the color of the American taxpayer. We have what we labor for taken to give to perverts, baby factories, and people who come here illegally, simply to buy votes for some of the lowest scum to ever beath air.

You may say this is different than in Britain, but I say you are wrong. It is exactly the same mindset. It is the mindset, that we must bow down to perverts, criminals, the worthless, those that hate us, and the like. We have a class of people in this nation who come here or are born here with the mindset we must bow to them and we owe them. We must give in to their lifestyle and accept it and they have the right to force it upon us.

Quite frankly, I'm sick of it. I'm neither owed nor do I owe anyone anything. I will not bow down to any muslim or other religion including humanists. I will not forfeit my valuses to appease homosexuals or anyonelse for that matter. I also believe very much in the old value of if you don't work, you don't eat.

https://gazzfriends.forumotion.com/national-politics-f6/muslim-bus-drivers-refuse-to-let-guide-dogs-on-board-t4655.htm

While I can't speak for Sam, speaking for me, yes, I paint all Muslims with the same brush. Like you distrust Gingrich, I distrust muslims. .....................We are in a religious war, ..............................

https://gazzfriends.forumotion.com/national-politics-f6/now-this-is-bad-really-insultingly-bad-t4684.htm

In a religious war? Yes, you are- and you love it, and you love the hate that goes along with it.

Onward Christian Soldiers
Marching as to war
With the cross of Jesus
Going on before

At the sign of triumph Satan's host doth flee;
on then, Christian soldiers, on to victory!
Hell's foundations quiver at the shout of praise;
brothers, lift your voices, loud your anthems raise.

Like a mighty army moves the church of God;
brothers, we are treading where the saints have trod.
We are not divided, all one body we,
one in hope and doctrine, one in charity.

One in hope and doctrine? What b.s. We are more divided than ever. "Religious war" my ass. It is about economics, and about aggressive militarism by the most powerful countries on earth, and about not simply living our values while letting others live theirs, and about the absence of charity. It is about anything but religion- unless "religion" is about everything we covet, and inclusive of everything and everyone we love to hate.

TC's not alone in his hatred for Christianity and religion. I think Ziggy that you should do some studying of Shia and Sunni law and understand that despite your apologies for them, they bear some responsibility all that is going on between Muslims and Christians.

People like you want to blame America's involvement in the Middle East and while that does play a role, that is not the end all be all for Muslim attacks. Spain and France are not nation building in the Middle East but that hasn't stopped radical Muslims from attacking Christians in those countries.

While I'm not blaming all Muslims for the actions of a few as many do (and you do regarding Christians) the one difference I do see in the religions is that when Christians are wrong or over the top, other Christians will call them out and condemn their actions. Sadly, I have not seen the same from Muslim leaders.

ziggy wrote:

Cato wrote:Not once have I ever even remotely suggested I hate homosexuals.

Cato, you seethe with hatred of anyone or any groups who do not share your particular versions of absolute morality and absolute "principles", to wit:

I'm finding more and more that people are getting fed up with being tolerant of muslims, homosexuals, illegals, blacks, and the like and then being crapped on by these very same people. Then on top of that being belittled and condemned for not being tolerant enough both by these groups, academia, and then by those who are suppose to represent us.

Here in the good ol' USA it may not be as blatant but it is bad enough and getting worse everyday. In fact you've seen quite an example of the so called tolerance mindset right here on this board. Need I remind you of the rounds Ziggy, Terry. and I have had over my choosing not to rent to homosexual couples.

Let me take this further with you. Last tax year my wife and I paid enough in federal taxes alone to send our son to college for a year and a half. We could ahve paid all his expenses, from the total cost of college to his room and board and transportation. We could have even provided some spending money. However, we paid the money to the jerks in DC so they could pass it out to every peice of perverted and useless garbage that comes down the pike. While our kid borrowed the money to go to school the politicans were doling the money my wife and I worked for to useless trash, illegals, and baby factories or sending it over seas to countries where the people hate our guts.

Let's go even further. Some years ago one or our kids graduated in the top 5% of thier graduating class. Their math skills exceeded those of kids graduating from northern Virginia when they placement test at JMU in the math department. WVU offered $500 at semester to attend there. Our kid chose to attend JMU instead, since it was the better school, and major in math. At the same time a black girl in the same class who wasn't in the top 5% of the class received a FREE RIDE to WVU because of being a minority, I guess. She lasted all of 6 weeks. She came home and sat on her black butt, doing nothing.

This morning I was helping a contractor of ours send some pictures by email. We got to talking about this very thing. He hit the nail on the head when he pointed to his arm and said this is the color of the American taxpayer. We have what we labor for taken to give to perverts, baby factories, and people who come here illegally, simply to buy votes for some of the lowest scum to ever beath air.

You may say this is different than in Britain, but I say you are wrong. It is exactly the same mindset. It is the mindset, that we must bow down to perverts, criminals, the worthless, those that hate us, and the like. We have a class of people in this nation who come here or are born here with the mindset we must bow to them and we owe them. We must give in to their lifestyle and accept it and they have the right to force it upon us.

Quite frankly, I'm sick of it. I'm neither owed nor do I owe anyone anything. I will not bow down to any muslim or other religion including humanists. I will not forfeit my valuses to appease homosexuals or anyonelse for that matter. I also believe very much in the old value of if you don't work, you don't eat.

https://gazzfriends.forumotion.com/national-politics-f6/muslim-bus-drivers-refuse-to-let-guide-dogs-on-board-t4655.htm

While I can't speak for Sam, speaking for me, yes, I paint all Muslims with the same brush. Like you distrust Gingrich, I distrust muslims. .....................We are in a religious war, ..............................

https://gazzfriends.forumotion.com/national-politics-f6/now-this-is-bad-really-insultingly-bad-t4684.htm

In a religious war? Yes, you are- and you love it, and you love the hate that goes along with it.

Onward Christian Soldiers
Marching as to war
With the cross of Jesus
Going on before

At the sign of triumph Satan's host doth flee;
on then, Christian soldiers, on to victory!
Hell's foundations quiver at the shout of praise;
brothers, lift your voices, loud your anthems raise.

Like a mighty army moves the church of God;
brothers, we are treading where the saints have trod.
We are not divided, all one body we,
one in hope and doctrine, one in charity.

One in hope and doctrine? What b.s. We are more divided than ever. "Religious war" my ass. It is about economics, and about aggressive militarism by the most powerful countries on earth, and about not simply living our values while letting others live theirs, and about the absence of charity. It is about anything but religion- unless "religion" is about everything we covet, and inclusive of everything and everyone we love to hate.

And I meant every word I said, but it doesn't mean I hate them. Actually Ziggy, it is not love to make excuses for people that are doing wrong or wronging others or are too lazy to work or that steal and extort for others. In fact, it is hatred not to call them out for what they do. I don't know what you think you are proving by posting the things I've said trying to show the I seeth with hatred, but all you are prove is how much you hate the very institutions that gave you liberty and defended you rights.

You believe what you desire, but one of these days you going to come face to face with the fact excuse making doesn't work. If you believe I hate because I tell one the truth, then so be it. Just because Ziggy believes something doesn't make it true.

I don't know what you think you are proving by posting the things I've said trying to show the I seeth with hatred, but all you are prove is how much you hate the very institutions that gave you liberty and defended you rights.

What institutions would that be?

Just because Ziggy believes something doesn't make it true.

And it does not make it untrue, either. And likewise, just because Cato believes something does not make it either true or untrue.

ziggy wrote:
What institutions would that be?

Those that gave you the liberty you enjoy and yet work so hard to destory. They include judeo-christain institutions and the basic founding tenets of the United States. You proved time and again you loathe anything christain. The really funny part is you proclaim youself a christain.

If you held liberty sacred you'd defend my right to use my property as I see fit, educate my kids as I deem fit and proper, you wouldn't be willing to trust your liberty to judges or anyone esle for that matter, and you'd support my view of being willing to defend liberty even it meant taking up arms.

The truth is you have attacked me at every turn. I want to use my property as I determine proper for me and you attack me and support laws that force to me commit to policy I find abhorent. You demand certain classes are taught and that kids take said classes whether or not their parents approve. Evolution is a fine example of that. You use the pretence of the so called seperation of church and state to accomplish your goal, even though church and state seperation is not found in the constitution. When I state I will use whatever means necessary to defend my rights you accuse me of being willing to overthrow the country. I state that I don't trust muslims you accuse me of hatred. I state I am sick of having what I have worked taken to support people who won't work and again you accuse me hate.

Not once have I even suggested using the force of government to push my views on others. You have, time and again. I am not willing to trust another with my liberty, you are. You've said as much when you have stated you are willing to allow some appointed judge tell you wha the Constitution says or means. The truth is Ziggy you are pathetic.

Just because Ziggy believes something doesn't make it true.

And it does not make it untrue, either. And likewise, just because Cato believes something does not make it either true or untrue.

Cato wrote:

ziggy wrote:
What institutions would that be?

Those that gave you the liberty you enjoy and yet work so hard to destory.

The Constitution of the U.S. is the primary "institution" that gives me liberty. And I uphold the Constitution with far more respect than you do. You said only a few weeks ago here that the Constitution does not establish the kind of government you would like to see.

They include judeo-christain institutions and the basic founding tenets of the United States. You proved time and again you loathe anything christain. The really funny part is you proclaim youself a christain

So do you presume to determine who is and is not the correct kind of Christian? I do not judge or question your Christianity as it relates to your spiritual needs- nor do I find it "funny". So why would you question and find "funny" my Christianity as it relates to my spiritual needs?

If you held liberty sacred you'd defend my right to use my property as I see fit,

And if you held liberty sacred you would allow homosexuals to do as they please in the sanctity of their own bedrooms- whether they rented their home from you or from someone else. You are for your liberty, but not for the liberty of others- even when excersing their liberties does not injure you.

educate my kids as I deem fit and proper,

As long as they receive a thorough, well rounded education, I don't care where or how they receive an education. I suspect that Stephanie's home schooled children, for example, have a far better education in many respects than they would receive in their local public schools. And I suspect likewise would be the situation were you and your wife to homeschool or otherwise provide education alternative to the public schools for your children. If you think I object to how you educate your children, then you have me confused with someone else.

you wouldn't be willing to trust your liberty to judges or anyone esle for that matter,

I just support what the Constitution says in that regard, to wit:

Article III - The Judicial Branch Note
Section 1 - Judicial powers

The judicial Power of the United States, shall be vested in one supreme Court, and in such inferior Courts as the Congress may from time to time ordain and establish. The Judges, both of the supreme and inferior Courts, shall hold their Offices during good Behavior, and shall, at stated Times, receive for their Services a Compensation which shall not be diminished during their Continuance in Office.

Section 2 - Trial by Jury, Original Jurisdiction, Jury Trials

The judicial Power shall extend to all Cases, in Law and Equity, arising under this Constitution, the Laws of the United States, and Treaties made, or which shall be made, under their Authority;

(Cato)- and you'd support my view of being willing to defend liberty even it meant taking up arms.

The Constitution does not allow for taking up arms against the U.S. government, to wit:

Article 1

Section 8 - Powers of Congress .....................................

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

The truth is you have attacked me at every turn. I want to use my property as I determine proper for me and you attack me and support laws that force to me commit to policy I find abhorent.

Only because you scream about liberty, but you would deny homosexuals the liberty to do as they please within their home they might rent from you. You think that your liberty somehow trumps that of homosexuals. I disagree.

You demand certain classes are taught and that kids take said classes whether or not their parents approve. Evolution is a fine example of that.

Do you feel the same way about teaching that the earth is spherical and not flat? Or that the sun, and not the earth, is the center of our solar system? There is value in students knowing the basics of the best that science has ascertained. That evolution is contrary to certain religious teachings is not reason to disallow its dessimination as science in public schools. As far as I know, home schools and other private schools are not required to teach about evolution.

You use the pretence of the so called seperation of church and state to accomplish your goal, even though church and state seperation is not found in the constitution.

And neither is your so-called liberty to rent your property to the general public, but not to homosexuals, found in the Constitution. The Courts have determined that there is effectively separation of church and state under the U.S. Constitution. They have not made a determnination that not renting property that is available for rent to the general public can be made unavailable for rent to homosexuals- as far as I know.

When I state I will use whatever means necessary to defend my rights you accuse me of being willing to overthrow the country.

If that is not what you mean when you say, "you'd support my view of being willing to defend liberty even it meant taking up arms", then what does it mean? If it does not mean taking up arms against the government, then what does it mean?

I state that I don't trust muslims you accuse me of hatred.

You went further than that. You said that you consider all Muslims to be alike, and that we are in a religious war with Muslim. If we are in a war with Muslims- whether a religious war or political/ military war, do you not consider Muslims to be your/our enemies?

I state I am sick of having what I have worked taken to support people who won't work and again you accuse me hate.

You have made it very plain that are "sick" of having your taxes used to provide welfare for blacks and illegal aliens. You have not spoken one word about taxes used to provide welfare to unemployed white people- even though there are many more white people on welfare than blacks in this nation.

Not once have I even suggested using the force of government to push my views on others.

When you argue that there is no separation of church and state, you make it very apparent that you do not object to using the state as a instrument of religion. So if not your religious "views", what religious views would you allow the state to push?

I am not willing to trust another with my liberty, you are.

We are not a democracy. We are a republic. And in a republic, and under the U.S. Constitution, we necessarily trust our liberty to those we elect to government offices, and to those they appoint to carry out the authority of government as stated in the Constitution..

You've said as much when you have stated you are willing to allow some appointed judge tell you what the Constitution says or means.

And that is precisely what the Constitution says- that questions of law and of equity under the Constitution are determined by the Courts. If you don't like that, then your problem is not with me, but with the Constitution.

The truth is Ziggy you are pathetic.

We are all pathetic, Cato- all of us other than God almighty are pathetic.

Just because Ziggy believes something doesn't make it true.

)Ziggy)And it does not make it untrue, either. And likewise, just because Cato believes something does not make it either true or untrue.

Roll your eyes if you please. That does not change the fact that just because you or I believe something, that doesn't make it either true or untrue.

ziggy wrote:

Cato wrote:

ziggy wrote:
What institutions would that be?

Those that gave you the liberty you enjoy and yet work so hard to destory.

The Constitution of the U.S. is the primary "institution" that gives me liberty. And I uphold the Constitution with far more respect than you do. You said only a few weeks ago here that the Constitution does not establish the kind of government you would like to see.

They include judeo-christain institutions and the basic founding tenets of the United States. You proved time and again you loathe anything christain. The really funny part is you proclaim youself a christain

So do you presume to determine who is and is not the correct kind of Christian? I do not judge or question your Christianity as it relates to your spiritual needs- nor do I find it "funny". So why would you question and find "funny" my Christianity as it relates to my spiritual needs?

If you held liberty sacred you'd defend my right to use my property as I see fit,

And if you held liberty sacred you would allow homosexuals to do as they please in the sanctity of their own bedrooms- whether they rented their home from you or from someone else. You are for your liberty, but not for the liberty of others- even when excersing their liberties does not injure you.

educate my kids as I deem fit and proper,

As long as they receive a thorough, well rounded education, I don't care where or how they receive an education. I suspect that Stephanie's home schooled children, for example, have a far better education in many respects than they would receive in their local public schools. And I suspect likewise would be the situation were you and your wife to homeschool or otherwise provide education alternative to the public schools for your children. If you think I object to how you educate your children, then you have me confused with someone else.

you wouldn't be willing to trust your liberty to judges or anyone esle for that matter,

I just support what the Constitution says in that regard, to wit:

Article III - The Judicial Branch Note
Section 1 - Judicial powers

The judicial Power of the United States, shall be vested in one supreme Court, and in such inferior Courts as the Congress may from time to time ordain and establish. The Judges, both of the supreme and inferior Courts, shall hold their Offices during good Behavior, and shall, at stated Times, receive for their Services a Compensation which shall not be diminished during their Continuance in Office.

Section 2 - Trial by Jury, Original Jurisdiction, Jury Trials

The judicial Power shall extend to all Cases, in Law and Equity, arising under this Constitution, the Laws of the United States, and Treaties made, or which shall be made, under their Authority;

(Cato)- and you'd support my view of being willing to defend liberty even it meant taking up arms.

The Constitution does not allow for taking up arms against the U.S. government, to wit:

Article 1

Section 8 - Powers of Congress .....................................

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

The truth is you have attacked me at every turn. I want to use my property as I determine proper for me and you attack me and support laws that force to me commit to policy I find abhorent.

Only because you scream about liberty, but you would deny homosexuals the liberty to do as they please within their home they might rent from you. You think that your liberty somehow trumps that of homosexuals. I disagree.

You demand certain classes are taught and that kids take said classes whether or not their parents approve. Evolution is a fine example of that.

Do you feel the same way about teaching that the earth is spherical and not flat? Or that the sun, and not the earth, is the center of our solar system? There is value in students knowing the basics of the best that science has ascertained. That evolution is contrary to certain religious teachings is not reason to disallow its dessimination as science in public schools. As far as I know, home schools and other private schools are not required to teach about evolution.

You use the pretence of the so called seperation of church and state to accomplish your goal, even though church and state seperation is not found in the constitution.

And neither is your so-called liberty to rent your property to the general public, but not to homosexuals, found in the Constitution. The Courts have determined that there is effectively separation of church and state under the U.S. Constitution. They have not made a determnination that not renting property that is available for rent to the general public can be made unavailable for rent to homosexuals- as far as I know.

When I state I will use whatever means necessary to defend my rights you accuse me of being willing to overthrow the country.

If that is not what you mean when you say, "you'd support my view of being willing to defend liberty even it meant taking up arms", then what does it mean? If it does not mean taking up arms against the government, then what does it mean?

I state that I don't trust muslims you accuse me of hatred.

You went further than that. You said that you consider all Muslims to be alike, and that we are in a religious war with Muslim. If we are in a war with Muslims- whether a religious war or political/ military war, do you not consider Muslims to be your/our enemies?

I state I am sick of having what I have worked taken to support people who won't work and again you accuse me hate.

You have made it very plain that are "sick" of having your taxes used to provide welfare for blacks and illegal aliens. You have not spoken one word about taxes used to provide welfare to unemployed white people- even though there are many more white people on welfare than blacks in this nation.

Not once have I even suggested using the force of government to push my views on others.

When you argue that there is no separation of church and state, you make it very apparent that you do not object to using the state as a instrument of religion. So if not your religious "views", what religious views would you allow the state to push?

I am not willing to trust another with my liberty, you are.

We are not a democracy. We are a republic. And in a republic, and under the U.S. Constitution, we necessarily trust our liberty to those we elect to government offices, and to those they appoint to carry out the authority of government as stated in the Constitution..

You've said as much when you have stated you are willing to allow some appointed judge tell you what the Constitution says or means.

And that is precisely what the Constitution says- that questions of law and of equity under the Constitution are determined by the Courts. If you don't like that, then your problem is not with me, but with the Constitution.

The truth is Ziggy you are pathetic.

We are all pathetic, Cato- all of us other than God almighty are pathetic.

Just because Ziggy believes something doesn't make it true.

)Ziggy)And it does not make it untrue, either. And likewise, just because Cato believes something does not make it either true or untrue.

Roll your eyes if you please. That does not change the fact that just because you or I believe something, that doesn't make it either true or untrue.

What is interesting about you is that when you are backed into a corner you make reference to what the US Constitution does and doesn't do or allow. You also write a lot and say absolute nothing. I cannot tell you how thankful I am you weren't around during the 1700s. You would have been running around pissing and moaning about what the founders were doing and telling them that British law doesnt allow the taking up of arms.

The more you write the more you prove to me that you are whimpering leftist, blown to and fro by every wind of progressive doctrine. You have absolutely no principles nor are you willing to standup and defend anything you do have.

What is interesting about you is that when you are backed into a corner you make reference to what the US Constitution does and doesn't do or allow.

Cato, over the years here you have pissed and moaned to no end about the Constitution saying certain things and not saying other things. More recently you said that the Constitution does not make for the kind of government you believe in.

I am not the one threatening to take up arms because I don't get my way. And yet you call me a whimpering leftist? You are whimpering for more radical and more violent political change than I ever did.[quote]