How high will it go ..... because 'Bush Lied'?

Aaron wrote:No Sam, once again (it seems to be a theme lately) you are wrong. I've known all along it was about oil for you. I just wanted you to say it once again.

Aaron, did you know that ........

America consumes 31.2 billion (plastic drinking) water bottles a year taking 17.6 million barrels of oil to create them. Enough to fuel 1.5 million cars for a year. America consumes 100 billion plastic bags a year taking 12 million barrels of oil.

And that doesn't include the billions n' billions of plastic soda pop bottles ...... or any of the other plastic containers that are made from oil.

And you think it's ........ NOT ABOUT OIL?

Do you actually think you can convert everyone back to using brown baper bags and/or brown paper wrapping ...... in less than 12 months time ....... for packaging everything they need to purchase?


Buy ya books, ....... send ya ta school ........ and ya ride your bike down to a bar for a cold beer and to discuss how literally stupid everyone is that's "runnin the show".

And then you got the audacity to ask ...... "what gives them the right to lie to the American public"?

GIMME A BREAK

Who are the visionaries Sam and what gives them the right to lie to Americans? Production of plastic bottles? Come on, stop being a girlyman and answer simple questions.

Aaron, tell me that you never, ever, ....... not even one (1) time, ...... ever lied to your wife or one of your children, ....... then I will believe that you are totally clueless as to .... "what gives them the right to lie to Americans".

I don't agree with you Sam that our government has a right to lie to the American public so stop being a nancypants and answer the questions.

Who are these visionaries and explain why it is you feel they have a right to lie to the American public?

Aaron, who or what gave/gives you "the right" to ...... lie to your wife and/or kids?

Give it up, Aaron, ........ the 'truth' has no agenda.

The 'untruthers' do have an agenda, ..... and sometimes for good reason.[u]

For a lot of years Sam I held you in relatively high esteem and gave you credit for being a smart man but if you think an elected official has a right to lie to the American public and your justification is that a husband lies to his wife or children because they know what is best then I got to say, I was wrong and you're an idiot.

Quit being a nancypants and answer the questions.

Ah so, Aaron, you do have two (2) different "sets of standards", .... don'tja?

One set for only you, ..... and one set for everyone else.

That's fine Aaron, but the ill-feelings and quandaries resulting in your selective and inconsistent application of that 2nd set of standards has surely garnered you a "not-so-favorable" reputation over the past years. Which would likely explain your highly defensive attitude.

Which brings us back to the other discussion on "bigots" and "just causes" as it pertains to your "two (2) sets of standards".

Are you not claiming the right and privilege of "just cause" for whatever it is that you think, say or do, ...... but denying anyone else that right or privilege iffen they so much as disagree with you or think, say or do anything that pisses you off?

For a lot of years Sam I held you in relatively high esteem and gave you credit for being a smart man but ............ I was wrong and you're an idiot.

Aaron, hopefully, as you continue to mature and gain more wisdom and experience you will eventually realize that .... it serves no beneficial purpose ..... for you to claim that "a person changed from being smart to being an idiot" ....... in one fell swoop.

SamCogar wrote:Ah so, Aaron, you do have two (2) different "sets of standards", .... don'tja?

One set for only you, ..... and one set for everyone else.

Yada. Yada, yada, that's a load Sam and you know it. It's nothing more then you trying to divert the conversation because you can't answer the questions as to who these visionaries are and what right they have to lie to the American public.

SamCogar wrote:That's fine Aaron, but the ill-feelings and quandaries resulting in your selective and inconsistent application of that 2nd set of standards has surely garnered you a "not-so-favorable" reputation over the past years. Which would likely explain your highly defensive attitude.

I'm confused Sam. Wasn't it not long ago that you said I was trying to kiss up to everyone and look good to my peer's? Seems to me you don't know which way you’re coming and which way you’re going. Or perhaps you're talking out both sides of your mouth because you can't explain who these visionaries are and what right they have to lie to the American public.

SamCogar wrote:Which brings us back to the other discussion on "bigots" and "just causes" as it pertains to your "two (2) sets of standards".

Are you not claiming the right and privilege of "just cause" for whatever it is that you think, say or do, ...... but denying anyone else that right or privilege iffen they so much as disagree with you or think, say or do anything that pisses you off?

What I'm claiming Sam is that you're full of it, I’m not falling for your diversion tactics and that you really need to identify who these visionaries you speak of are and explain why they have a right to lie to the American public.

For a lot of years Sam I held you in relatively high esteem and gave you credit for being a smart man but ............ I was wrong and you're an idiot.

SamCogar wrote:Aaron, hopefully, as you continue to mature and gain more wisdom and experience you will eventually realize that .... it serves no beneficial purpose ..... for you to claim that "a person changed from being smart to being an idiot" ....... in one fell swoop.

I'm not claiming in one swell swoop that you're an idiot Sam. I'm saying if you believe anyone has a right to lie to the America public for any reason then you're an idiot. There's a difference.

I’m sure there are many areas in which you are an expert but politics is clearly not one of those if you believe visionaries have a right to lie to the citizens of this country. If you do actually believe that bullshit, then I can come to no other conclusion then that you are indeed a raving idiot.

Unless of course you can answer the question that has been posed to you a dozen times or so. Who are these visionaries and what right do they have to lie to the American public about invading and occupying a foreign country?

So you going to man up nancypants and answer the questions or are you going to continue to run like a scared little girl?

Aaron wrote:

SamCogar wrote:Ah so, Aaron, you do have two (2) different "sets of standards", .... don'tja?

One set for only you, ..... and one set for everyone else.

Yada. Yada, yada, that's a load Sam and you know it. It's nothing more then you trying to divert the conversation because you can't answer the questions as to who these visionaries are and what right they have to lie to the American public.

Aaron, why do you have such a problem with the above said visionaries lying to you ….. but you don’t have one iota of a problem with the authors of your Bible lying to you? HUH?

Care to explain that "double standard"?

And given the above cited “book of lies and tall tales”, ….. me thinks the following pretty much describes your mindset, to wit:

Aaron wrote:I'm saying if you believe anyone has a right to lie to the America public for any reason then you're an idiot.

Sam, why can't you answer a simple question regarding statements you made. Either that or admint you don't have a clue who these visionaries are, what right do they have to lie to the American public and you're talking out your ass? The longer this goes on, the less credibility you retain.

what right do they have to lie to the American public

1. because loudmouthed people like you talk too much
2. because people like you can't handle the truth
3. one should never tell their enemy what they are planning
4. the US is not a Democracy, it's a Constitutional Republic
5. you were told everything that you "needed to know" ...... and "pushing" the issue will get you lied to in a heartbeat, ....... a response that I'm pretty sure you are guilty of

So who are these visionaries that are allowed to lie to loudmouths because you watched a bad Jack Nicholson movie?

Are they men who've actually served their country, stood on that wall using words like honor and code, the backbone of a life defending something, if you will, or are they guys like you, those who chose to avoid service at any and all cost while others carried their water and fought the good fight for them?

It's not like I haven't ask you like 42 times now and I figure that sooner or later, you're going to spout some tripe like above (those are some pretty bogus excuses by the way) and affirm that you don't know what the hell you're talking about.

Aaron wrote:So who are these visionaries that are allowed to lie to loudmouths because you watched a bad Jack Nicholson movie?

Now why would I want to continue watching a bad Jack Nicholson movie?

Aaron, I really don't have a mental problem keeping fact and fiction separated. Thus I have no nurtured compulsion to punish myself either physically or mentally by forcing myself to do things that are harmful, hurtful or offensive to my person. Given said, it makes me wonder why you made such an accusation.

Aaron wrote:Are they (the visionaries) men who've actually served their country, stood on that wall using words like honor and code, the backbone of a life defending something, if you will,

Aaron, me thinks history proves that General Andrew Jackson, General Sherman, General Patton, General MacArthur and General Eisenhower were all “abstract thinking” visionaries. But anyway, Military Service is not a prerequisite for being an "abstract thinker", ........ it is one's "childhood nurturing" that is the prerequisite for being an "abstract thinker".

And if one's "abstract thinking" ability is quite limited as a resullt of poor nurturing by their parent(s) and/or guardians then it is extremely dfficult to near impossible for that person to understand or comprehend exactly what "abstract thinking" actuallly is. ..... Iffen ya ain't got it, you won't recognize it even iffen ya see it. And iffen you don't recognize it, you won't believe that it even exists.

Aaron wrote:..... or are they guys like you, ?

"Yes", Aaron, those guys are like me. I am ..... an "abstract thinker", ..... a designer, an inventor, a logical designer, ...... a forsee'er of potential events, problems, products, etc., ...... which results from my ability to conceptualize them in my conscious mind ...... and via logical deduction and reasoning ...... determine what I believe is their "best bet" potentiality given the/their parameters and attributes available to my memory recall.

Aaron wrote:.... or are they guys like you, ...... who chose to avoide service at any and all cost while others carried their water and fought the good fight for them?

Aaron, now you are acting like an irate, pierty, pouty, pissed off female whose sole intent is to "get even" with someone for doing or not doing something that .... bruised your ego. Were you nurtured solely by your mother, by females? Must be, .... because you are exhibiting the inherited female trait of ... "in times of stress, making an emotional decision, ...... rather than a logical decision", ....... and since you didn't inherit said ....... you must have been nurtured to do said.

Aaron, for you information, ..... I did not choose to avoid Military Service.

It was the Military Service that chose to avoid me.

I believe it t'was the summer of 64' I got my Draft Notice in the mail. I reported as ordered, ..... got on a bus to the Induction Center in center city Philadelphia, .... where I spent 6+- hours "taking tests", ..... all of which I "Aced", .. mostly 100%'s on, ... and then t'was about 3:45 PM when some dude in a "white smock", ... who I could tell was really tired from, ... literally, .... looking at assholes all day long, ..... took one look at me over the top rim of his eyeglasses and said .......

"What the fuck are you doing here? .....
Get the hell out of here and go home."

And Aaron, ....... that's what I did, ...... just like that Doctor ordered me to do.

And fuck you too, .... Aaron, ......... and your pathetic excuses for claiming to be whatever it is you claim to be.

Aaron wrote:It's not like I haven't ask you like 42 times now and I figure that sooner or later, you're going to spout some tripe like above or spout something like above (those are some pretty bogus excues by the way) and affirm that you don't know what the hell you're talking about.

Sure nuff, Aaron, ...... sure nuff, ....... whatever "turns your twisted crank".

SamCogar wrote:

Aaron wrote:So who are these visionaries that are allowed to lie to loudmouths because you watched a bad Jack Nicholson movie?

Now why would I want to continue watching a bad Jack Nicholson movie?

Aaron, I really don't have a mental problem keeping fact and fiction separated. Thus I have no nurtured compulsion to punish myself either physically or mentally by forcing myself to do things that are harmful, hurtful or offensive to my person. Given said, it makes me wonder why you made such an accusation.

Actually, it's a bad Tom Cruise/Demi Moore movie with Nicholson having a few bad scenes and the reason I reference it is you quoted his most famous line. You're semi-intelligent on some things, computers included. Google "you can't handle the truth Nicholson" and watch the video. If you don't understand then, well I can't help you.

SamCogar wrote:

Aaron wrote:Are they (the visionaries Sam's words)men who've actually served their country, stood on that wall using words like honor and code, the backbone of a life defending something, if you will,

Aaron, me thinks history proves that General Andrew Jackson, General Sherman, General Patton, General MacArthur and General Eisenhower were all “abstract thinking” visionaries. But anyway, Military Service is not a prerequisite for being an "abstract thinker", ........ it is one's "childhood nurturing" that is the prerequisite for being an "abstract thinker".

While it's hard to say regarding Jackson and Sherman, history has proven that Patton, Macarthur and Eisenhower would not have favored occupying another country and they certainly didn't favor lying to their country thus they wouldn't be part of the visionary crowd you can't seem to name that favors occupying Iraq for their oil.

SamCogar wrote:And if one's "abstract thinking" ability is quite limited as a resullt of poor nurturing by their parent(s) and/or guardians then it is extremely dfficult to near impossible for that person to understand or comprehend exactly what "abstract thinking" actuallly is. ..... Iffen ya ain't got it, you won't recognize it even iffen ya see it. And iffen you don't recognize it, you won't believe that it even exists.

SamCogar wrote:

Aaron wrote:..... or are they guys like you, ?

"Yes", Aaron, those guys are like me. I am ..... an "abstract thinker", ..... a designer, an inventor, a logical designer, ...... a forsee'er of potential events, problems, products, etc., ...... which results from my ability to conceptualize them in my conscious mind ...... and via logical deduction and reasoning ...... determine what I believe is their "best bet" potentiality given the/their parameters and attributes available to my memory recall.

I'm sorry Sam but just because you worked on computers and possibly invented something, I hardly think that puts you in the same company as the military men you referenced above. As you've pretty much destroyed any credibility you had, you're going to have to come up with something a little more concrete then your word if you want to be placed in the company of those men.

SamCogar wrote:

Aaron wrote:.... or are they guys like you, ...... who chose to avoide service at any and all cost while others carried their water and fought the good fight for them?

Aaron, now you are acting like an irate, pierty, pouty, pissed off female whose sole intent is to "get even" with someone for doing or not doing something that ....bruised your ego. Were you nurtured solely by your mother, by females? Must be, .... because you are exhibiting the inherited female trait of ... "in times of stress, making an emotional decision, ...... rather than a logical decision", ....... and since you didn't inherit said ....... you must have been nurtured to do said.

No Sam, I'm stating a fact. Men who have served in combat find it more difficult to send young men into battle to die then men who have not served or who served in rear echelon positions prove. This was the case with Eisenhower pulling us out of Korea compared to what happened in Vietnam. Truman (no service) got us involved in that nation despite objections from Macarthur. Kennedy (combat service) refused to escalate the war but LBJ (no combat service) had no trouble lying to escalate and entrench the US in Vietnam for a nearly a decade. Nixon (served but saw no combat) continued the war before finally ending it 2 years after taking the oath. If you've never served and saw combat, you can't understand what it is like for men who have.

SamCogar wrote:Aaron, for you information, ..... I did not choose to avoid Military Service.

It was the Military Service that chose to avoid me.

I believe it t'was the summer of 64' I got my Draft Notice in the mail. I reported as ordered, ..... got on a bus to the Induction Center in center city Philadelphia, .... where I spent 6+- hours "taking tests", ..... all of which I "Aced", .. mostly 100%'s on, ... and then t'was about 3:45 PM when some dude in a "white smock", ... who I could tell was really tired from, ... literally, .... looking at assholes all day long, ..... took one look at me over the top rim of his eyeglasses and said .......

"What the fuck are you doing here? .....
Get the hell out of here and go home"

And Aaron, ....... that's what I did, ...... just like that Doctor ordered me to do.

Respectively Sam, I do not believe you. We both know what you are saying is not true. While you very well may have been called to an induction center, you did not take a bunch of test as you claim. You forget, I've actually raised my right hand and I know how the process works. They START with a physical examination and if you don't or can't pass that, you don't take the test.

SamCogar wrote:And fuck you too, .... Aaron, ......... and your pathetic excuses for claiming to be whatever it is you claim to be.

I'm not claiming to be anything I'm not Sam other then honest so unwad your panties and settle down. I understand you're painted in a corner and your pride and bruised ego won't allow you to back down or admit you don't know what the hell you're talking about but that's no reason for you turning into a bitch so lose the attitude.

SamCogar wrote:

Aaron wrote:It's not like I haven't ask you like 42 times now and I figure that sooner or later, you're going to spout some tripe like above or spout something like above (those are some pretty bogus excues by the way) and affirm that you don't know what the hell you're talking about.

Sure nuff, Aaron, ...... sure nuff, ....... whatever "turns your twisted crank".

The truth Sammy boy, the truth is what turns my crank and it’s also what will set you free. Simply answer the questions.

Who are these visionaries that you now compare yourself to and by what right do they have in lying to the voting public?