School gives Muslim students time and place to pray.

Public School gives Somali Muslim students time off several times a day to pray in school
http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20111218/GPG0101/112180624/Prayer-a-part-of-public-school-life

Muslim students at Keller Elementary School in Green Bay quietly slip out of class each day to pray in a tiny alcove of the school. For five to 10 minutes, the group of girls is not distracted by students who walk nearby. ”We do it because our parents want us to,” fourth-grader Ayan Artan said. “It’s important.”

The students are part of a growing Somali population in Green Bay. And as that population grows, schools are trying to accommodate the strict prayer schedule for the students, many of whom practice Islam, educators say.

They note that the district accommodates Muslim students as well as Christians who choose to pray before meals or read the Bible during study hall.

They will give a Muslim kid 50 minutes a day to pray while at the same time not allowing a Christian to pray in silence.

Hi Keli,

Christianity not being very ritual based, at least not in a daily sense, gives some explanation of the difference. On the point of there being a double-standard, I teetotally agree with you, but I don't see the trouble of Muslim children praying.

We Christians need to spend more time in community, praying, evangelizing, encouraging, feeding the hungry, and encourage our children to do the same (and not to back down if threatened by schools or what have you). That Muslim children are praying to allah is troublesome in an eternal sense, I grant you, but isn't the problem here on earth not Muslims praying but Christians not?

In fact, Keli, why not let the Muslim students provide "cover" and encourage Christian teens to go off to another room at the same time and pray as well, if so inclined?

SheikBen wrote:In fact, Keli, why not let the Muslim students provide "cover" and encourage Christian teens to go off to another room at the same time and pray as well, if so inclined?

Your response is Christian, magnanimous and well thought out; however, if this isn't a violation of the separation of church and state--as so often interpreted against Christians, then what is? Do you really believe that Christian teens are going to be given equal time/place to pray?

They can (and should) certainly demand it, and if they are not given it, I should love to see that case go before the high court.

SheikBen wrote:They can (and should) certainly demand it, and if they are not given it, I should love to see that case go before the high court.

Sheik, smoking mistletoe again?

SheikBen wrote:They can (and should) certainly demand it, and if they are not given it, I should love to see that case go before the high court.

I agree with you 100 percent. If the Christian students are not allowed to pray, there should be a legal challenge. Whether it should be allowed is something courts have not agreed with previously.

Keli wrote:

SheikBen wrote:They can (and should) certainly demand it, and if they are not given it, I should love to see that case go before the high court.

Sheik, smoking mistletoe again?

Not since that unfortunate incident last Winter Solstice!

Merry Christmas to you and yours, keli! Prayers for prosperity, even as your souls prosper.

Andrea Cristobal wrote:

SheikBen wrote:They can (and should) certainly demand it, and if they are not given it, I should love to see that case go before the high court.

I agree with you 100 percent. If the Christian students are not allowed to pray, there should be a legal challenge. Whether it should be allowed is something courts have not agreed with previously.

Thanks, AC! I think what is lost by many in the culture wars is a decent sense of proportion. If a teen is willing to say "I'm getting together with my friends and I'm going to pray, and that's just the way it is" instead of playing the victim, I think they are going to get to do as they like (not having been a Christian in high school, I can't say that I would have had the backbone to do this, but I'd like to think I would).

Evangelical Christians "play the victim" just like anyone else, and to be sure, I do see a double standard in many places. Still, if we just "get over ourselves" and pray where we want and when we want, we'll be fine. We don't need lawsuits, we need greater love for Jesus, thicker skin and less concern over how our neighbors see us. The bumper sticker gag is yet appropriate: as long as there are tests, there will be prayer in schools. And if a principal wants to start suspending students for organized prayer, given the present state of social problems in the public schools, let him or her be brought before the public and rightly castigated. Whining, however, changes nothing.

SheikBen wrote:

Andrea Cristobal wrote:

SheikBen wrote:They can (and should) certainly demand it, and if they are not given it, I should love to see that case go before the high court.

I agree with you 100 percent. If the Christian students are not allowed to pray, there should be a legal challenge. Whether it should be allowed is something courts have not agreed with previously.

Thanks, AC! I think what is lost by many in the culture wars is a decent sense of proportion. If a teen is willing to say "I'm getting together with my friends and I'm going to pray, and that's just the way it is" instead of playing the victim, I think they are going to get to do as they like (not having been a Christian in high school, I can't say that I would have had the backbone to do this, but I'd like to think I would).

Evangelical Christians "play the victim" just like anyone else, and to be sure, I do see a double standard in many places. Still, if we just "get over ourselves" and pray where we want and when we want, we'll be fine. We don't need lawsuits, we need greater love for Jesus, thicker skin and less concern over how our neighbors see us. The bumper sticker gag is yet appropriate: as long as there are tests, there will be prayer in schools. And if a principal wants to start suspending students for organized prayer, given the present state of social problems in the public schools, let him or her be brought before the public and rightly castigated. Whining, however, changes nothing.

I also think we need to get over the idea that any other religion is a threat to our own personal faith. A church might be the building we attend a service in. An organized religion might have tenets, etc. that we do not agree with. But the only true threat to our faith is the threats that come from within. Doubt being the biggest of those.

Once we stop viewing other religions as a threat, then it is also not so threatening to have them praying beside us in the same enviroment. Let each person practice their faith, and keep your eyes focused upon your own. IMO the crux of becoming close to God is to spend time growing within yourself, not seeking to deny another person the right to do the same.

I don't think the average person is threatened by others practicing their faith (in the usual manners, of course). Expressions of faith will not merely be within yourself, but I am convinced that we are treated individually by God. My government, my parents, and my spouse cannot save me, but only Jesus. Similarly, I cannot save others, and others cannot damn me. I pray that many who do not believe in Jesus will do so; that many will not does not change their rights, God given, to "choose this day whom they will serve."

They will give a Muslim kid 50 minutes a day to pray while at the same time not allowing a Christian to pray in silence.

This is a flat out lie. Name one case where a student has been prevented from praying in a silent, non-disruptive manner.

I defy you to.

TerryRC wrote:They will give a Muslim kid 50 minutes a day to pray while at the same time not allowing a Christian to pray in silence.

This is a flat out lie. Name one case where a student has been prevented from praying in a silent, non-disruptive manner.

I defy you to.

From the story.

Four Muslim students at Keller Elementary School in Green Bay quietly slip out of class or recess each day at about noon to pray in a tiny alcove of the school. For five to 10 minutes, the group of girls is not distracted by students who walk nearby.

Your comparison is apples and bananas Terry.

TerryRC wrote:They will give a Muslim kid 50 minutes a day to pray while at the same time not allowing a Christian to pray in silence.

This is a flat out lie. Name one case where a student has been prevented from praying in a silent, non-disruptive manner.

I defy you to.

The Muslim girls don't pray out loud. Why do they have to go to an alcove on the stairwell?

SheikBen wrote:I don't think the average person is threatened by others practicing their faith (in the usual manners, of course).

Maybe. But the "average person" too often exhibits outrage or even hostility and too often BECOMEs threatening because of others NOT practicing the faith of said "average person".

Name one case where a student has been prevented from praying in a silent, non-disruptive manner.

At HS graduation events, in Kanawha County I believe.

ziggy wrote:

SheikBen wrote:I don't think the average person is threatened by others practicing their faith (in the usual manners, of course).

Maybe. But the "average person" too often exhibits outrage or even hostility and too often BECOMEs threatening because of others NOT practicing the faith of said "average person".

That is absolutely true. We see that hostility all the time when there really is no need for hostility. No one's faith is a threat to yours as long as you are true to it yourself. Even under communism in the USSR where people were imprisoned for practicing their Orthodox faith, they still found ways to come together to pray. We here in the United States have a system which works for everyone. There are no religious wars in the streets here. Our Constitution is predicated on respect for all religions. The objective is for each of us to engage in the same respectful behavior.

Andrea Cristobal wrote:

ziggy wrote:

SheikBen wrote:I don't think the average person is threatened by others practicing their faith (in the usual manners, of course).

Maybe. But the "average person" too often exhibits outrage or even hostility and too often BECOMEs threatening because of others NOT practicing the faith of said "average person".

That is absolutely true. We see that hostility all the time when there really is no need for hostility. No one's faith is a threat to yours as long as you are true to it yourself. Even under communism in the USSR where people were imprisoned for practicing their Orthodox faith, they still found ways to come together to pray. We here in the United States have a system which works for everyone. There are no religious wars in the streets here. Our Constitution is predicated on respect for all religions. The objective is for each of us to engage in the same respectful behavior.

So, before we all break into Kumbaya, I guess this means that we all agree that children of all religions should be allowed a time and place to pray in the public schools---even during class time? Right, Andrea?

I actually would prefer to see it set up outside of class time. Unless there is a specific tenet within a faith that calls for prayer at a particular time.

Within the religion of Christianity there is no particular time that a person HAS to pray. So if a time and place is set aside for prayer shouldn't that be alright Mullah?

I do like Kumbaya....it is something we all should sing more often.

This is actually an excellent article addressing what is happening in Seattle regarding a similar matter.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/education/2003062394_prayer15m.html

I have no use for kumbaya and am not an interfaith guy. All the same, Zig's universalism is of no threat to me, although I fear that may disappoint him. I am not lonely now and I doubt very much that I will be in eternity.

The courts have ruled that the actions of governments, including school districts, should not support or detract from particular religions. As such, even if it is a tenet of Islam to pray at particular times, it is only fair (and constitutional) to allow Christian students "equal time" during class time. I should love to see Christian students praying throughout the day. I could use some more prayer time myself.