I'm not Rich!!!

Stephanie wrote:You keep insisting I want to suddenly link our currency to gold, and gold alone. I have never said that. Perhaps you're the one with the comprehension problem.

I want a standards based currency, a currency tied directly to something(s) of value. Gold, silver, copper, platinum, nickel, titanium, rhodium and more....precious stones....it can be a combination of valuable commodities, backing our currency would work. The current scheme is a disaster waiting to happen..... a currency backed only by faith being printed out of thin air whenever a private bank thinks its a good idea.

Stephanie, how about using water as the commodity to back currency? It has market value, that value will be maintained as clean, potable water become more in demand, etc.

I didn't say it would be easy! I have said what needs to be done will be painful. I have said it will require sacrifices on the part of the American people. I have said in this forum within the past week or so.

Stephanie wrote:I didn't say it would be easy! I have said what needs to be done will be painful. I have said it will require sacrifices on the part of the American people. I have said in this forum within the past week or so.

You said why many times now. Now tell how!

Stephanie, how about using water as the commodity to back currency? It has market value, that value will be maintained as clean, potable water become more in demand, etc.

Ziggy,

I think water would probably be better than nothing, which is what we have now. However, I have grave concerns about using water as a standard for currency for a couple of reasons.

I view water as a very unpredictable commodity. There are too many variables with water. I'm talking about things we simply cannot control like weather patterns and natural disasters etc. Look what happened in this country last year with drought in the south. It was a nightmare. I'm concerned it isn't stable enough. I'm not an economic expert but based upon my limited knowlege and understanding I believe that kind of instability would cause all kinds of chaos.

I guess I'd want to hear what well respected economists and scientists who agree we need a standards based currency have to say about it. Do you understand my concerns? I think initially you had mentioned wheat but that is even more unpredictable and too dependent on the forces of nature and susceptible to pests etc that I flat out reject that idea, personally. Although again, I still think it would be better than printing money out of thin air.

Step 1 would be ending the Federal Reserve's control of our currency and recovering the gold & silver the Federal Reserve is "keeping in trust" for the American people.

Step 2 would be legalizing the use of gold, silver, copper, platinum, etc as currency.

Step 3 would be ending taxation of these standards

You are aware this country has done this before, right?

First, ya can't switch to a commodity backed system ....... unless ya have enough of that commodity to switch too.

And secondly, it would be damn near impossible to do given the size and scope of our economy.

And thirdly, ya just might have a problem making "electronic transfers" of a commodity, ........ either across the Internet or at the grocery store, gas station, etc.

.

Yes, I'm aware. I'm also aware that when banks stop recognizing paper money, there was a run on the gold, which there wasn't enough of, banks collasped for that very reason and America plunged into a very deep recession. The only worse time economically then the 1830's was the 1930's and it both instances, it took a war to completely pull this country out of the plunge.

There's a huge difference in 'sacrificing' and losing everything!!!

So how do we make the conversion without creating a run on the banks?

Stephanie wrote:Step 1 would be ending the Federal Reserve's control of our currency and recovering the gold & silver the Federal Reserve is "keeping in trust" for the American people.

Steph, how about ending Congress's control of the Federal Reserve and make them a power unto themselves like is the SCOTUS?

Stephanie wrote:Step 2 would be legalizing the use of gold, silver, copper, platinum, etc as currency.

WOW, now that would sure "open up" great prospects for all the would-be counterfitters, ......... now wouldn't it?

And really put a hurtin on most all the vending machines.

Lets see now, ..... at $1,000/oz., ....... a $5 gold coin would be about the size of a pin head. And a platinum one would be 1/2 that size.

OOPS, almost forgeet, ..... if useing gold, silver, platinum, etc as currency, ...... and their value$ are changing every day, ...... and with all goods being priced differently in different places, ........... how does one know if they are getting a bargain or getting screwed on the price?

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Well Sam I am not picking a fight ok.

But going back to a gold standard does not mean there would no longer be paper money and/or other coins.

Remember we have been on the gold standard until fairly recently.

So everyone would not have to carry a sack of gold coins around....

How do we get there though Sherm? Why is easy. How is the hard part and it seems that those that holler the most about why have the least suggestions of how, at least that's how I see it. If you have any links to how, I'd love to read them.

http://www.gold-eagle.com/greenspan011098.html

Well I never thought I would be drawing on Greenspan's monetary expertise.

But the idea about a gradual shift does seem plausible.

I honestly don't understand all the ramifications, but I just know by instinct that the Bush/neocon credit card mentality has us headed down the highway to hell.

(before you dredge up the old Democrat tax and spend mantra yes I know that wont work either. I voted for Perot, remember?)

shermangeneral wrote:Well Sam I am not picking a fight ok.

But going back to a gold standard does not mean there would no longer be paper money and/or other coins.

Remember we have been on the gold standard until fairly recently.

So everyone would not have to carry a sack of gold coins around....

Well Sherman, ..... tell me why we were originally "on the Gold Standard" ....... and then maybe you can give me a reason as to why we should go back to it.

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shermangeneral wrote:http://www.gold-eagle.com/greenspan011098.html

Well I never thought I would be drawing on Greenspan's monetary expertise.

But the idea about a gradual shift does seem plausible.

I honestly don't understand all the ramifications, but I just know by instinct that the Bush/neocon credit card mentality has us headed down the highway to hell.

(before you dredge up the old Democrat tax and spend mantra yes I know that wont work either. I voted for Perot, remember?)

We've been on the Fiat system for 27 years Sherm, 12 of which a democrat was President. Niether Bill nor Jimmy attempted to switch back to the Gold standard as I recall.

In regards to the article, I didn't have a chance to finish it as I'm out the door in a few (I'll read it tonight) but I did want to comment that shortly after this article was published, the US went on an economic bull run the likes this country has never seen and has lasted for over 20 years with only 2 minor hiccups.

http://eh.net/encyclopedia/article/officer.gold.standard

Well sam I hate to disappoint you but I really don't know as much about this as you might think. I only jumped in this because I didn't want you to think you would have to start carrying around a sack of gold coins when you went down to the tavern ok.

shermangeneral wrote:http://eh.net/encyclopedia/article/officer.gold.standard

Well sam I hate to disappoint you but I really don't know as much about this as you might think. I only jumped in this because I didn't want you to think you would have to start carrying around a sack of gold coins when you went down to the tavern ok.

OK, Sherm.

And ps, I wasn't really planning on carring such anyplace.

GEEEZE, its now almost a waste of time n' energy to be carrying a sack full of $1.00 bills with you, ........ unless you are shopping at a "Dollar Tree" that is.

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SamCogar wrote:

shermangeneral wrote:http://eh.net/encyclopedia/article/officer.gold.standard

Well sam I hate to disappoint you but I really don't know as much about this as you might think. I only jumped in this because I didn't want you to think you would have to start carrying around a sack of gold coins when you went down to the tavern ok.

OK, Sherm.

And ps, I wasn't really planning on carring such anyplace.

GEEEZE, its now almost a waste of time n' energy to be carrying a sack full of $1.00 bills with you, ........ unless you are shopping at a "Dollar Tree" that is.

.

or headed to the strip clubs...

SamCogar wrote:

Stephanie wrote:Step 1 would be ending the Federal Reserve's control of our currency and recovering the gold & silver the Federal Reserve is "keeping in trust" for the American people.

Steph, how about ending Congress's control of the Federal Reserve and make them a power unto themselves like is the SCOTUS?

Stephanie wrote:Step 2 would be legalizing the use of gold, silver, copper, platinum, etc as currency.

WOW, now that would sure "open up" great prospects for all the would-be counterfitters, ......... now wouldn't it?

And really put a hurtin on most all the vending machines.

Lets see now, ..... at $1,000/oz., ....... a $5 gold coin would be about the size of a pin head. And a platinum one would be 1/2 that size.

OOPS, almost forgeet, ..... if useing gold, silver, platinum, etc as currency, ...... and their value$ are changing every day, ...... and with all goods being priced differently in different places, ........... how does one know if they are getting a bargain or getting screwed on the price?

.

First of all, Sam, the Federal Reserve is a private bank. It is an extremely private bank. Bill Gates can't get in on that action.

I said I want a standard based currency....I didn't say I wanted to use gold or platinum as the currency. Although I do believe that coins could be minted in various metals...a copper $10 and a silver $50 a gold $100 and a platinum $500. However, in addition to the specie, paper currency backed by the metals or whatever would be produced and that's what would be used for ordinary transactions.

For those of interested on a bit of the history of the Federal Reserve from a source other than the Mises Institute, (tons of info there but multiple, independent sources are important for such a serious topic) consider reading the speech Congressman Louis McFadden delivered to the House back in June of 1932.

http://www.afn.org/~govern/mcfadden_speech_1932.html

Stephanie wrote:

SamCogar wrote: Steph, how about ending Congress's control of the Federal Reserve and make them a power unto themselves like is the SCOTUS?

First of all, Sam, the Federal Reserve is a private bank. It is an extremely private bank. Bill Gates can't get in on that action.

SO, …. OK, ……. then form a new Bank and call it the Supreme Bank of the United States (SBOTUS) and appoint 11 Financiers to the Board.



Stephanie, all kidding and satire aside, I’ll talk serious like for a minute.

Money, whether it is paper, plastic, rocks, metal, etc. is only good for one thing: a medium of exchange. Yes, rocks, big round rocks, have been used as money.

“Medium of exchange” basically means the exchanging of the value of ones labor for the value of another’s labor. In essence, money is nothing more than a “transferable labor credit token” representing “labor performed”.

A farmer raises vegetables and exchanges them with a grocer for a hand full of “labor tokens”. He then goes to a service station and exchanges a few of them for gasoline for his tractor. I paint the exterior of the service station and the owner gives me a few “labor tokens” in exchange for my work. I then go to the grocer and exchange my “labor tokens” for some of the vegetables the farmer raised.

End result, I exchanged my “painting” labor for the farmer’s “vegetable growing” labor.

Thus Steph, as you should have noted, the value of the “labor tokens” or the “money” used, ……. only represents the “value of one’s labor” …… and not the value of the paper, plastic, rocks, gold, silver, platinum, etc. that represent said money.

Stephanie, the “value standard” of our money can not be based on a commodity such as gold, silver, water, etc, …….. because their value is constantly changing based on supply and demand which basically no one has control over and can not control said.

Thus, , the “value standard” of our money must be based on the “labor value” that it can be exchanged for. This “labor value standard” can be controlled, aka “A day’s work for a day’s pay.”

But as you well know, our government is FUBARing said “value standard” because they are giving out ZILLIONS of said “labor tokens” for free, …….. forcing employers to exchange more “labor tokens” for less value than the labor received for said …….. and/or exchanging them with government employees for minimal or less than “a day’s work” by said employees.

Thus, our government is decreasing the "labor value" of our money which is causing inflation, ..... requiring more n' more "labor tokens" to exchange for goods and services.

cheers

Sam,

I have to go do reading, writing and spelling with the little guy. I promise I'll get back to you on this.