History of Abortion

Well I notice as I try to look over the posts from the past week that some posters are again confused and/or misinformed and are disseminating some information that is factually deficient or perhaps accidently misleading.

The practice of abortion did not begin with the Democrat Party in the mid 20th Century.

The legal questions have been debated for centuries and the decision despised by so many demagogues on the right (roe v wade) has its legal roots in the old English Common Law which permitted the practice generally until the "quickening" of the fetus.

About the first tri-mester.

Essentially the same as roe v wade.

So I hate to disappoint my republican friends but us democrats did not invent abortion.

Nor did we invent sex.

Or Sin.

Yes we are sinners. Just like you.

But we did not invent sin.

So like I have said before I will not sit idly by while republicans hijack Jesus.

And try to demonize democrats.

John 3:17 says God did not send Jesus to condemn this world but to save it.

But it seems some of his supporters are more concerned with condemning and branding others than with solving the problems or lighting a candle instead of cursing the darkness.

Your party is pro-abortion--i.e. pro-choice. Your party is pro-gay rights. I don't believe that Christians should support either of these so-called rights. Why do you?

Sherman,

I never claimed the Democrats invented abortion, and I am not whatsoever against sex. Since you mentioned sex, I am going to have to tell you something. I greatly enjoy having sex with my wife. I do so very regularly, and we are about to have our third child in three years. I do not think that sex is "yucky" and I am not a prude.

I am, however, against the murder of innocent children, and I do not give a flying rat's ass whether English Common Law or the Supreme Court says it's ok. The Constitution itself could say "women have the right to an abortion" and that would not change my thinking one scintilla on the question.

The murder of innocent, unborn children in this country is a wart on the ass of this country's soul and Obama is damnable for supporting this insidious practice. I pray for his heart to change. Strong words? It's a strong f%$cking scalpel that decapitates innocent children.

Sherm,

I do not think Democrats invented abortion. Abortion predates the party, it predates our nation, it predates Christianity. I do know that the Democratic Party favors abortion on demand. That is what I condemn them for.

I am far from a prude. I have given birth to 6, count them 6 children. 5 of the 6 were unplanned. I carried every last one of them to term. I'm 44 years old and have no desire at all to have another child, but my husband and I enjoy a pretty darn good sex life. If I should become pregnant again, despite our precautions, I will have another baby and hope he or she is healthy. That pregnancy would be classified as advanced maternal age putting any potential child at much greater risk for all sorts of abnormalities such as Down's Syndrome. I would not have an amnio or anything else to try to weed out an unhealthy child. You get what you get and you deal with it.

For all the noise the Democrats make about what average Americans need, and how they want to take care of us all, and it will be just like the Big Rock Candy Mountain if we have a Democratically controlled House, Senate, and Oval Office, it will be just another four years of peril for all of our unborn citizens.

Well Mike correct me if I am wrong.

But I suspect your opposition to abortion has absolutely nothing to do with whether the civil laws of the nation forbid the practice.

So why is your passion directed toward changing the civil laws?

Like the good book sAYS EACH PERSON MUST BE FULLY PERSUADED IN THEIR OWN MIND.

btw, Sherm.......I'm a Republican. When have I ever tried to hijack Jesus, or the bible, or anything remotely Christian?

Stephanie wrote:btw, Sherm.......I'm a Republican. When have I ever tried to hijack Jesus, or the bible, or anything remotely Christian?

tO MY KNOWLEDGE YOU HAVE NOT.

However, I think you would acknowledge you are not a typical republican, under the current perception of what that term means.

Sherm,

Do you remember a few years ago the Christian Right, or whatever they call themselves these days were known as the "silent majority"?

The number of Republicans like me is growing. It's about time.

Maybe so.
But I doubt even you would say you are close to being a majority of republicans.

No. You want to talk about a hijacking? My party has been hijacked by Rhino's (my own spin on RINO), neocons and right-wing extremist wingnuts. I'm not in the majority, but I am far closer to a classical conservative, or a traditional conservative, than John McCain or GWB or Mitt, Mike, Rudy, Fred & the rest of the boys.

Remember Goldwater & Taft. They were genuine conservatives. They, along with Ron Paul, are the well known conservatives I identify with.

Well Steph abortion is one of those highly charged personal questions that is often used as a wedge issue by the republicans.

Republicans like to grandstand and pronounce themselves as family values candidates and so-called pro-life candidates.

Many even sponsor legislation that they know full well is unconstitutional just to give them a chance to demagogue the issue and fool the simple minded.

Just like the flag burning issue.

And the republican sheeple just trudge right along and take the bait.

Sad but true.

shermangeneral wrote:Well Mike correct me if I am wrong.

But I suspect your opposition to abortion has absolutely nothing to do with whether the civil laws of the nation forbid the practice.

So why is your passion directed toward changing the civil laws?

Like the good book sAYS EACH PERSON MUST BE FULLY PERSUADED IN THEIR OWN MIND.

Sherm,

Remember in the 1930s and 1940s when some Germans believed that Jewish people could be murdered and others thought that they should not be murdered? Should those Germans who disapproved of murdering the Jews have just ignored the civil laws. After all, "EACH PERSON MUST BE FULLY PESUADED IN THEIR OWN MIND."

Your tired accusations of Republicans hijacking Jesus are simply unfair. I outrightly oppose any candidate who favors abortion, regardless of their religion. As such, Obama could tell me that he accepts the Bible as the inerrant word of God and that no one can be saved without believing in Jesus Christ and trusting in His sacrificial death on the Cross, and I still would not vote for him because he favors abortions, up to and including partial birth abortion.

Tell me why Obama isn't hijacking Jesus when he addresses church groups on the campaign trail, and yet the Republicans are. When Al Gore argues from the Bible that we should act kindly to the environment, why is that different than when Republicans say that the Bible would also have us not kill our children?

shermangeneral wrote:Well Steph abortion is one of those highly charged personal questions that is often used as a wedge issue by the republicans.

Republicans like to grandstand and pronounce themselves as family values candidates and so-called pro-life candidates.

Many even sponsor legislation that they know full well is unconstitutional just to give them a chance to demagogue the issue and fool the simple minded.

Just like the flag burning issue.

And the republican sheeple just trudge right along and take the bait.

Sad but true.

And the Democrats wonder why it is that evangelicals often reject them. You are not the first Democrat, Sherm, to refer to pro-life Christians as "simple minded" and "sheeple." Yet when we (and pro-lifers who are not at all religious, who exist far more regularly than you suppose) then reject the Dems for saying and thinking such things, it is just more evidence to you that we are not thinking for ourselves.

Your argument seems to be: "do as I tell you (ignore abortion laws when voting) or else you are a simpleton who does not think for yourself."

One more time, Sherm, your argument boiled down is "do as I tell you or else you are not thinking for yourself." Don't you see the humor in that?

Well Mike no I dont think Dems are trying to hijack Jesus when they point out that he loves us too and not just republicans.

I can tell from the tone of your posts that you tend not to love us democrats like you should.

When you brand a whole class of people as evil like that I dont think Jesus would approve.

Some democrats are basically pretty decent.

I dont know if you saw my post about the republicans' compassionate response to Sen Kennedy's horrible health news.

But my surprise at that indicates maybe I could be guilty of branding republicans as less than compassionate.

Just like you think us dems are less moral or patriotic than you guys.

So I think we should work on that attitude dont you?

Especially on Sunday.

I seem to remember a forum on faith for the candidates after one of the New Hampshire debates sponsored by CNN in which selected candidates spent approximately half an hour discussing their faith and politics. If I recall correctly, the guest were Obama, Clinton and Edwards.

This was done again last month just before the PA primary election with invatation extended to Obama, Clinton and McCain.
McCain declined.

So who exactly is it that is trying to hijack Jesus?

shermangeneral wrote:Well Mike no I dont think Dems are trying to hijack Jesus when they point out that he loves us too and not just republicans.

I can tell from the tone of your posts that you tend not to love us democrats like you should.

When you brand a whole class of people as evil like that I dont think Jesus would approve.

Some democrats are basically pretty decent.

I dont know if you saw my post about the republicans' compassionate response to Sen Kennedy's horrible health news.

But my surprise at that indicates maybe I could be guilty of branding republicans as less than compassionate.

Just like you think us dems are less moral or patriotic than you guys.

So I think we should work on that attitude dont you?

Especially on Sunday.

Some Democrats are pretty decent. I reckon that Obama is a good neighbor and a nice fellow. His support of abortion is horrible, just like the practice. My mom is a Democrat and I do not love her any less.

I do not wish harm upon Obama, Clinton, or anyone else. I pray that your hearts would change and I also pray that this barbaric practice will end.

I think you're oversensitve. Jesus Christ overturned tables in the temple and referred to it as a den of robbers. I see no conflict at all between my faith in Jesus Christ and my belief that abortion needs to end and I will therefore not support the party that is committed to keeping it going.

I love people who do wrong, but that does not mean that I have to approve of their wrongdoing. Jesus says "go now and sin no more," not "do whatever you want, I don't want to judgemental."

Well not McCain, Aaron.

At least not now.

Like Terri and I have been discussing on another thread, McCain sucked up to the religious wacko gang till he got the nomination then dropped them like a used condom.

But he is not a typical republican.

Which is why he will be hard to beat.

I didn't vote for McCain in the primary. Do you know a single member of the Christian right who voted for McCain in the primary?

Well I know the majority did not Mike.

But history indicates they will suck it up and vote for him in the fall.

Or at least not vote democrat.

And he will more than make up for those few who do by picking up Independents and some moderate Dems.

I wont be surprised if he is elected.

shermangeneral wrote:Many even sponsor legislation that they know full well is unconstitutional just to give them a chance to demagogue the issue and fool the simple minded.

Just like the flag burning issue.

And the republican sheeple just trudge right along and take the bait.

Sad but true.

YUP, just like they took your bait .... of your 1st post, ..... RIGHT?

.

Well Sam it was not Dems who first invented abortion.

That debate did not begin with Roe v Wade.

That is what I said in the first post.

That is not "bait".

That is just the cold hard facts.

Roe v Wade did not really plow any new ground.

It only referred to and reaffirmed the old English Common Law.

If you don't want to believe me thats up to you.

shermangeneral wrote:Well Sam it was not Dems who first invented abortion.

That debate did not begin with Roe v Wade.

That is what I said in the first post.

That is not "bait". ....... That was bait.

That is just the cold hard facts.

Roe v Wade did not really plow any new ground.

It only referred to and reaffirmed the old English Common Law.

If you don't want to believe me thats up to you.

NO, that was just slinky slimy weazelwording, ....... aka piffle.

The human females have been performing/inducing abortions ever since they evolved enough to be called human .......... and they are still doing said.

Thus, they are the ones who "invented it".

.

I don't see there being any issue in who or what "invented" abortion. Was it Samuel Colt who invented the revolver? Do we blame him when some jackass shoots someone else? We shouldn't. Does the fact that evil people in the cities did not invent the revolver somehow excuse them from their actions in using them?