DEMOCRATS WANT TO COUNT ALL VOTES...

even the half-votes...

QUESTION, ........ is there ever any "hanging chad" ........ when only Democrat votes are being counted?



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Well it probably went over you guys's heads but did you pick up on the fact the Democrats adopted the same position as the Republicans vis-a-vis the Florida and Michigan delegate situation.?

Nobody ever mentions the republicans since their nomination is a done deal, but they had the exact same dilemma as the Dems.

So whatever observations you might have are equally applicable to both parties in this instance.

I don't recall anything from the Republican party or Florida and Michigan moving their elections up. I know Republicans were campaigning hard for the Michigan primary and Romney’s win kept him in the race for a whi7le longer.

I think you’re mistaken Sherm.

Aaron wrote:I don't recall anything from the Republican party or Florida and Michigan moving their elections up. I know Republicans were campaigning hard for the Michigan primary and Romney’s win kept him in the race for a whi7le longer.

I think you’re mistaken Sherm.

Could be Aaron.

My wife tells me my memory has got so much better that I can now remember things that never even happened.

But that is the way I remember it.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

How does your story explain Romney winning Michingan to stay in the race?

(CNN) -- Mitt Romney claimed a much-needed victory in Tuesday's Michigan Republican primary, making the race for the GOP presidential nomination anybody's game.


Mitt Romney speaks to supporters after his Michigan win.

"Tonight marks the beginning of a comeback -- a comeback for America," the former Massachusetts governor said.

"Let's take this campaign to South Carolina and Nevada and Florida and all over the country. Let's take it all the way to the White House," he said to a cheering crowd.

Some political analysts said Michigan was a must-win for Romney, who finished second in Iowa and New Hampshire.

Romney, who won the overshadowed Wyoming caucuses, is a Michigan native and his father was governor of the state in the 1960s.

Forty-one percent of people who voted in the GOP primary said Romney's Michigan ties were important to them, according to exit polls.

source

Well he won Michigan and got half the number of delegates.

The republicans penalized the states of Michigan and Florida by taking away half their delegates.

Originally the Dems penalized them by taking all their delegates.

Now they have reneged and adopted the republican position.

Remember when Hillary went to Fl and made a "victory" speech?

If you dont believe me just ask your forum mama she will tell you I am right.

So Republicans accepted the consquences of the actions and the decison made, moved on and didn't cry about it for 5 months.

What do you expect them to do, act like democrats???

So Aaron is that an admission that you were 100% wrong and my faulty memory was 100% right?

Ypou mean in the fact that Repuclicans didn't cry like bitches for 5 months but dealt with the problem and moved on while democrats cried like bitches for 5 months. No, I'm pretty sure I'm right about that Sherm!!!

About par for the course thouh, ain't it!!!

If there was a contest in the republican Party there would be crying as you call it.

No, as I recall, Mitt could have continued to fight and at least made it interesting but he choose to step back for the good of the party.

Well much as you try to chicken dance and change the subject, fact is the republicans penalized both Michigan and Florida by taking away half their votes.

Much as you continue to deny it.

If my memory serves me, Sherm is correct. The GOP punished Florida and Michigan by taking half their delegates. Of course, I remember a couple of other things too. Maybe Sherm can help me out here.

I seem to recall Hillary Clinton joining with the other Democratic candidates in signing a pledge to skip states that broke party rules by holding their primaries too early back in September.

"....I seem to recall Hillary Clinton joining with the other Democratic candidates in signing a pledge to skip states that broke party rules by holding their primaries too early back in September...."

I do not recall the pledge signing.

I have heard it said many times after the fact.

I would imagine that if it was true someone would produce the document.

And so far as I know Clinton did not campaign there anyway.

But my point was that, for better or worse, the republican national committee took essentially the same action as the Democrat national committee.

Please remember that Hillary was not "my" candidate.

I am sticking up for her because it is clear to me she is getting a raw deal and Obama is getting a free ride.

Hmmm.......I cannot personally produce such a document. I never had access to it. I can link you to a couple of news articles from last September stating she signed it, though.

[Sep 2, 2007] Barack Obama of Illinois, Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York and former North Carolina Sen. John Edwards announced Saturday that they would not campaign ... Granholm is expected to sign the Jan. 15 primary legislation early this week. Michigan Republican Party Chairman Saul Anuzis said the Jan. ...
From Dems not budging on early primary: Jan. 15 vote... - Detroit Free Press (Free with registration) Related stories - Related web pages



[Sep 2, 2007] Buckley billed the pledge as a way to restore "order, predictability and common sense" to the primary calendar, which lately seems to have marked by a new state every week ... Yesterday, Obama, Edwards and Clinton followed suit. The party chairmen gave candidates until Thursday to sign on. ...
From How many people were at that rally? - This time... - Concord Monitor ($$) Related stories - Related web pages



[Sep 5, 2007] But for Democrats, the early primary has been divisive. The Democratic National Committee has ordered Florida Democrats to make the vote ... think anyone wants a situation where we don't campaign in Florida," said Mo Elleithee, a spokesman for Clinton, who agreed to sign the pledge on Saturday. ...
From No pledge can keep Dems out. - Sarasota Herald-Tribune (Free with registration) Related stories - Related web pages

Well it would appear from that that there probably is a document somewhere.

So the next question is what did it say.

Did it say they would not campaign there, or did it say they would take their names off the ballot?

In other words "unfile"?

Did it say the votes would not be counted?

Or that no delegates would be seated?

And , last but not least, do the candidates have authority to decide these matters anyway?

The voters of Mich and Fl should have some say so I would think.

Not just the "political hacks" in the Dem and Rep. Parties.

I know it didn't say they would withdraw their names from the ballot. In Michigan all of the candidates but Clinton and Dodd had their names removed from the ballot.

The candidates pledged not to campaign or participate in debates in states with early primaries. I'm pretty sure that's what the document stated. The candidates were all pretty clear in stating they didn't support the early primaries, including Senator Clinton.

By the time Clinton and the others signed that document, the DNC had already warned states they would lose their delegates if they held primaries in January, with the exception of the four "early" states.

If Clinton was concerned about counting every vote, she would have done something then. She made choices just as all the other candidates made choices. Neither she, nor the citizens of those states get any sympathy from me.

The bottom line is, they didn't play by the rules and got spanked. The voters in those states shouldn't be blaming the DNC, or some conspiracy or the RNC. Blame rest squarely on the shoulders of officials in their respective states. There are consequences for breaking the rules.

Sherm knows exactly what the document said as well as what HRC said way back when. He feigns ignorance, he doesn't have to admit that HRC is dead wrong about both MI and FL.

Well I suppose the national committees can do as they please.

It is a party thing.

However like I have said before on other threads I am not sure the states are legally bound to put the name of the DNC and/or RNC candidates on their state ballot.

In any event the Obama bunch has shown such arrogance and contempt for the unenlightened democrats who do not support them that I see little chance they can win now even with the sorry state the republicans have got things.

Besides, we could do a lot worse than McCain imo.

Sherm, you can give up on your dream of WV bucking the national party. It ain't happening.

First of all, "mad props" to Sherm for knowing about the Republican half-vote thing. Very impressive, my leftist friend.

At the same time, Aaron's point about the Republicans handling the matter better (and in general the nomination better) is correct. Romney bowed out gracefully and promptly when he could have continued, and Clinton is fighting like a tigress (you have to admire her spirit, just not her judgement) to the bitter, bitter end, and the party is at least temporarily suffering for it.

shermangeneral wrote:Well I suppose the national committees can do as they please.

It is a party thing.

However like I have said before on other threads I am not sure the states are legally bound to put the name of the DNC and/or RNC candidates on their state ballot.

In any event the Obama bunch has shown such arrogance and contempt for the unenlightened democrats who do not support them that I see little chance they can win now even with the sorry state the republicans have got things.

Besides, we could do a lot worse than McCain imo.

Sherm,

You may be representative of a great many people, but I wonder what a "lot worse than McCain" is. Oh, Barack Obama. Got it. I still refuse to vote based on "we could do a lot worse" rather than "I actually like this one."

I'm thinking Hillary is now in negotiations with the party bosses. She'll bow out if certain promises are made.

Timing is everything in life, and right now Hillary has lost her bid to be the Democratic nominee. The writing is on the wall and clearly she can now see it. So, she could fight all the way to the convention, causing more tension and discord in the party, or.......

Or she could bow out. At this point I hesitate to use the word gracefully, but she could bow out and maintain some semblance of dignity. I don't think she's too concerned about dignity given all the gory details of her husband's philandering ways she's already endured.

So what does Mrs. Clinton value? What she values is power. So I think unlike the brother of the late President Kennedy, Hillary will not fight to the all the way to the convention if certain assurances are made.

After Teddy Kennedy lost his bid for the nomination in 1980, he went back to the Senate where he remains. He never sought the nomination gain. Instead he amassed an incredible amount of power in Congress over the past 28 years.

I think Hillary will seek to gain an awful lot of that power. I'm thinking she's already in negotiations with the party bosses, particularly in the Senate. She bows out and throws her support behind Obama in exchange for many of those power positions Kennedy currently holds.

Stephanie's Magic 8-Ball predicitions.....

SheikBen wrote: and Clinton is fighting like a tigress (you have to admire her spirit, just not her judgement) to the bitter, bitter end, and the party is at least temporarily suffering for it.

OH Mikey, ..... Mikey, ..... Mikey, .....

Her judgment in this case should be admired more than her spirit.

She knows that if the Superdelegates ...... give Obama the Nomination, ...... the Democrats will flatassed LOSE in the General Election.

Not only the White House ......... but seats in Congress.

Now PC'isms and PC'ing is fine n' dandy ...... and makes a lot of people feel good all over more than any other place ......... but by the time the 1st of November gets here ....... many and/or most will have begun to take a long, hard look at the "reality" of the situation ....... and will react accordingly on that fateful Tuesday in November.

cheers
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