Bad news for Dems and naysayers...

U.S. troop deaths in Iraq fell to their lowest level last month since the 2003 invasion and officials said on Sunday improved security also helped the country boost oil production in May to a post-war high.

U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates and Iraq's oil minister credited better security for the two milestones, which illustrated a dramatic turnabout in the fortunes of a country on the brink of all-out sectarian civil war just 12 months ago.

"We've still got a distance to go but I think lower casualty rates are a reflection of some real progress," Gates told reporters in Singapore. "The key will be to continue to sustain the progress we have seen."

Armon Ayers wrote:

"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things.
The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic
feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse.
The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight,
nothing which is more important than his own personal safety,
is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless
made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."

John Stuart Mill (1806-1873)

"I hate it when they say, 'He gave his life for his country.'

Nobody gives their life for anything.

We steal the lives of these kids. We take it away from them.

They don't die for the honor and glory of their country. We kill them."- Admiral Gene LaRocque.

ziggy wrote:

Armon Ayers wrote:

"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things.
The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic
feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse.
The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight,
nothing which is more important than his own personal safety,
is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless
made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."

John Stuart Mill (1806-1873)

"I hate it when they say, 'He gave his life for his country.'

Nobody gives their life for anything.

We steal the lives of these kids. We take it away from them.

They don't die for the honor and glory of their country. We kill them."- Admiral Gene LaRocque.

Armon Ayers wrote:

"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things.
The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic
feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse.
The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight,
nothing which is more important than his own personal safety,
is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless
made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."

John Stuart Mill (1806-1873)

ziggy wrote:

Armon Ayers wrote:

"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things.
The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic
feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse.
The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight,
nothing which is more important than his own personal safety,
is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless
made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."

John Stuart Mill (1806-1873)

What do you think contributes to such a "decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling" as Mill lamented in the 19th century?

ziggy wrote:
They don't die for the honor and glory of their country. We kill them."- Admiral Gene LaRocque.

In August 1983, 575 retired admirals, led by Thomas Moorer, placed an advertisement in The Washington Times criticizing La Rocque for appearing on Soviet television. He retired from the center in 1993.

Source

Keli wrote:Are you saying that a young person of 18 is not mature enough to make a decision to volunteer for military service and sacrifice?

Aaron wrote:

ziggy wrote:
They don't die for the honor and glory of their country. We kill them."- Admiral Gene LaRocque.

In August 1983, 575 retired admirals, led by Thomas Moorer, placed an advertisement in The Washington Times criticizing La Rocque for appearing on Soviet television. He retired from the center in 1993.

Source

Yeah, I understand why you quoted this guy.

ziggy wrote:

Keli wrote:Are you saying that a young person of 18 is not mature enough to make a decision to volunteer for military service and sacrifice?

It depends on what you mean by "volunteer". One who is incentivized to "volunteer" by slick propaganda focusing more on alleged "benefits" than on what the reality of "service and sacrifice" means under a crazed Commander-in-Chief such as LB Johnson or GW Bush has not "volunteered" at all- but has been swindled out of his or her good judgment and informed consent.

We require more warning on cigarette advertising than we do on military recruitment advertising, and more truth in advertising for light bulbs than for military recruitment. .

Aaron wrote:Maybe the same train of thought that led him to appear on Soviet television contributed to his opinion you quoted!!!

ziggy wrote:

Aaron wrote:Maybe the same train of thought that led him to appear on Soviet television contributed to his opinion you quoted!!!

I agree with him, and I have never had a "train of thought" to appear of Soviet television. So what's your point?

Aaron wrote:What do you know of military recruiting and how?

Aaron wrote:

ziggy wrote:

Aaron wrote:Maybe the same train of thought that led him to appear on Soviet television contributed to his opinion you quoted!!!

I agree with him, and I have never had a "train of thought" to appear of Soviet television. So what's your point?

He's another liberal with an agenda and I'm quite confident that you would have fit in nicely on Soviet television in the early 80's Frank.

ziggy wrote:

Aaron wrote:

ziggy wrote:

Aaron wrote:Maybe the same train of thought that led him to appear on Soviet television contributed to his opinion you quoted!!!

I agree with him, and I have never had a "train of thought" to appear of Soviet television. So what's your point?

He's another liberal with an agenda and I'm quite confident that you would have fit in nicely on Soviet television in the early 80's Frank.

An agenda? Hell, even plants have an agenda. Is having an agenda a sin, too? Are you telling us that you and others who disagree with him don't have an "agenda" of your or their own?

Aaron wrote:So you know nothing other then your what your anti-war core thinking tells you, which isn't much.

It does bring them money. Current enlistment bonus money can be as much as $40K.

I toured Europe on Uncle Sam's dollar, which was pretty adventourous.

There is educational opportunties. Currenty the GI bill is paying something like $40k to $60k for college.

Perhaps your judgement is clouded by your anti war mentality Frank