You Call This Earmark Reform?

Well I just figured since we were being parsimonious we should start out with the big pork and not the petty pork.

So to be more specific, if it is accessible to you on your fast connection, estimate what you believe the total waste is and then divide that by the total value of all earmarks.

I am confident it will be less than one % of all waste by anyone's measure.

(Just like these guys who say they can balance the budget by cutting "foreign aid".)

Just more buzzwords.

...estimate what you believe the total waste is and then divide that by the total value of all earmarks.

If I leave out the personal cant, this is your suggestion. To which I would reply, "No." $29 billion is enough waste to rouse me from my slumbers. Your suggestion that earmarks comprise less than 1% of the waste has no merit. $29 billion of bicycle paths and beaver dam studies is $29 billion too much.

What percentage would rouse you?

shermangeneral wrote:Well I just figured since we were being parsimonious we should start out with the big pork and not the petty pork..

Well now, a wise old fellow once told me, ......... "that if you watch your pennies real closely, ......... the dollars will take care of themselves."

The PRIMARY reason they have the "big pork" to spend, ........ is because they use the "petty pork" as bribery money to get authorization.

But you knew that already.

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"What percentage would rouse you?"

This bothers me a hundred times more than a bike path...http://www.nationalpriorities.org/more_war_funding_signed_by_president

No wait a thousand times more.

Especially if the bike path was in WV.

We could build one from Ohio County to Sherman for a fraction of that, even if we had a fancy outhouse every mile or so.

And even if we had the fancy gold plated fixtures like the military prefers.

Check the subject link for what other worthwhile projects could be funded instead of the occupation of Iraq....

So I should watch for your thread, "To hell with Earmarks - let's De-Fund the War"?

Well if you click the previous link I am sure there are lots of local projects more worthy of funding than the Iraq rathole.

Worthy of funding via earmark or the long way. wouldn't matter to me really which way.

The destination matters more to me than which path you take.

shermangeneral wrote:"What percentage would rouse you?"

This bothers me a hundred times more than a bike path...http://www.nationalpriorities.org/more_war_funding_signed_by_president

No wait a thousand times more.

Especially if the bike path was in WV.

We could build one from Ohio County to Sherman for a fraction of that, even if we had a fancy outhouse every mile or so.

And even if we had the fancy gold plated fixtures like the military prefers.

I am confident it will be less than one % of all waste by anyone's measure.

(Just like these guys who say they can balance the budget by cutting "foreign aid".)

Just more buzzwords.

Sherm,

You're failing to see the big picutre.

Our foreign aid is part and parcel of our foreign policy. Our foreign policy includes providing military aide to countries who hate each other so they can buy bigger and better killing machines. Our foreign aide includes funding governments who steal the land and water from other people. Our foreign aide is provided to governments to arrest people and lock them away in prisons without benefit of counsel, without ever holding a trial.

Much of our foreign aide lines the pockets of wealthy dictators and who abuse their power and harm their people. Our playing favorites with the foreign aide is making people hate us. Our foreign aide and our intervention is what motivates suicide bombers and other Islamic extremists.

We keep building nations and propping up regimes and having them turn on us, or us turn on them and leading us into war. Look at what the US did with the Shah of Iran. Now look what the US is doing in Pakistan. That is how we end up in these needless, senseless wars that our young men and women are dying and being maimed in. That's how we end up displacing hundreds of thousands of civilians generating more anti-American sentiment, more hatred.

The madness must end.

Well Stephanie I agree.

But when the rightwingwackos complain about all the money spent on "foreign aid" that is not what they have in mind.

What really makes them angry is humanitarian assistance like food, medicine, schools, etc.

What really makes them angry is humanitarian assistance like food, medicine, schools, etc.

You really believe this, don't you? First day here and you got to come in and drop your "I hate republicans" bomb.

Well I have to take issue with my good friend from Ohio...

"You really believe this, don't you? First day here and you got to come in and drop your "I hate republicans" bomb."

It would not be unfair if you really believed I hate you guys but I am sure you know better.

I consider you my prodigal brothers and sisters, who have been led astray by the false promise of lucre and the pursuit thereof.

I was just trying to get a rise...

shermangeneral wrote:Well I have to take issue with my good friend from Ohio...

"You really believe this, don't you? First day here and you got to come in and drop your "I hate republicans" bomb."

It would not be unfair if you really believed I hate you guys but I am sure you know better.

I consider you my prodigal brothers and sisters, who have been led astray by the false promise of lucre and the pursuit thereof.

I was just trying to get a rise...

Now Sherm, you know I like you. However, Jimmy is right. You're blasting us Pubbies again but you fail to see the problems on the other side.

I won't speak for our dear friend from Ohio County, but I am a Republican. I will likely continue to be a Republican. It is part of who I am. Now you hear Republican and you think neocon but just as not all Democrats are leftwing extremists not all members of the GOP are rightwing whackos. My party, the GOP, lost its way.

Leaders like Taft & Goldwater made the GOP great. Many of us thought the Rockefeller wing of the party had been adequately stomped out. We were wrong. So some, not all, but some of us fell victim to GWB. Remember, when Bush ran the first time he ran on a platform that included limiting US intervention overseas and an end to nation building. So we were duped.

By the way, I believe the American people should provide humanitarian aid to other people of the world facing crisis. The difference between you and me is I know how generous Americans are. I have witnessed the response of Americans famine and disease, earthquakes and flooding. We are a generous nation.

Our people also seem to possess greater discretion than our government when it comes to giving aid. Average citizens donate to reputable organizations with proven track records like the Red Cross, Doctors Without Borders, Save the Children to name a few.

Our government, on the other hand, has a track record of taking money from the American people and handing it over to war lords, dictators, and thugs. Money meant for food and medicine instead lines the pockets of ruthless men who care only for their own wealth and nothing for their countrymen.

My mother always told me not to dish it out if I couldn't take it. You wanted a rise and you got one.

Well Steph both you and OC substituted the word republican where I distinctly said rightwing wackos.

Please check the record.

I know not all republicans are rightwing wackos.

Although you have to admit they do exert a lot of influence in the party.

But the demagogues who blather on and on about "foreign aid" are opposing humanitarian aid for poor people, not the propping up of rightwing dictators.

They are all for the military spending to prop up dictators.

shermangeneral wrote:Well Steph both you and OC substituted the word republican where I distinctly said rightwing wackos.

Please check the record.

I know not all republicans are rightwing wackos.

Although you have to admit they do exert a lot of influence in the party.

But the demagogues who blather on and on about "foreign aid" are opposing humanitarian aid for poor people, not the propping up of rightwing dictators.

They are all for the military spending to prop up dictators.

OK well I'm opposed to both. I am opposed to the federal government taking money from the American people and sending it to other nations for war, to intall regimes, or to provide humanitarian aide. It isn't their money to spend. If they weren't doing such a shit job of dispersing it then you might have a leg to stand on in this debate. The reality is their track record is pathetic.

Well then Steph maybe you could get an earmark put in just for basic humanitarian relief for food, meds, etc, and exclude military hardware and such...

shermangeneral wrote:Well then Steph maybe you could get an earmark put in just for basic humanitarian relief for food, meds, etc, and exclude military hardware and such...

shermangeneral wrote:

But the demagogues who blather on and on about "foreign aid" are opposing humanitarian aid for poor people, not the propping up of rightwing dictators.

Sherman, explain to me why I shouod have my wages extorted to give away, even for humanitarian reasons. Since I oppose all forms of foreign aid, including for humanitarian reasons, is it not tyranny to FORCE my support for such policies?

No. In my view humanitarian aid to poor countries is not tyranny.

Whether by earkmark or traditional funding source.

shermangeneral wrote:No. In my view humanitarian aid to poor countries is not tyranny.

Whether by earkmark or traditional funding source.

It is, if it the money to is forced from people who have no desire to provide it.

Sherman, I have three kids, two of which are out of school and working. All three have had to take on debt to pay for their education. Our oldest was fortunate in that she teaches math and the school system that hired her paid off some, but not all of her loans. Our middle kid is also working. However, she wasn't as fortunate and is now working two jobs to pay off her debt. Our third is still in school, but is also now in debt to the tune of $10,000 with a year and half of school to go.

The point is Sherman, my wife and I, who have a combined average salary for West Virginia, have had enough in Federal taxes alone taken out to have paid the vast majority of all three's education. I set down and figured up once that if I had been able to keep just half of what I paid in Federal Taxes, I would have been able to invest it and made enough to have sent all three to school where they could have come out, not in debt.

Of course, I know you'll say it's Bush's war that caused this, and you would be right to some degree over the past three years or so, but it is the overspending of the Federal Government in general that is the cause and that has been happening since FDR's time.

You talk about humanitarian aid to foreign nations as being a justifiable reason for foreign aid. Let me tell you about humanitarian aid right here int he US. When my oldest daughter began college, she graduated 4th in her class of nearly 100. WVU offered her a mere $250 per semester to attend there. At he same time WVU offered a black girl in my daughter's class a free ride, simply because she was black. While she was an above average student, she was not in the top 10%. The little lady lasted about 6 weeks. She quit, came home, and has sit on her butt ever since, even up to today. My wife and my earnings were extorted from me to give to this little black slut, while my daughter had to borrow money to go to school. It took my daughter 5 years to pay off her loans, loans she would ahve never had to take out, if the politicians weren't so busy redistributing wealth to parasites.

Lets look a bit further with regard to humanitarian aid. We provide Jordan with $50,000,000 per year in aid. Those tax dollars come fromt he average American. Supposedly most of it goes to humanitarian aid. When 9/11 happened, the Jordanians danced in the streets celebrating the deaths of 3,000 innocent people. I remember a news cast were we saw images of the Jordanian trash celebrating and dancing. The world doesn't desearve our aid anymore. They hate our guts, afterall. Maybe they would learn appreciation if they had to expend a little effort to make a living instead of sucking money out of the wallets of hardworking Americans, whom they would just as soon murder.

Yes, Sherman, I am very bitter about it. I am so bitter as a matter of fact, that I will never vote for a democrat and as of two elections ago, I will not vote for any incumbent republican. Nor will I vote for any politician that is not talking seriously about reducing or eliminating entitlements, and seriously about redusing taxes across the board.

Well trust me Cato I know a little about Education loans and the associated scams.

You might be interested in Edwards' proposals if you were not blinded by the right.

But back to the subject, I would consider basic humanitarian aid not just because it is the right and Christian thing to do, but because of its longterm benefits in avoiding conflict.

Which is a lot more expensive than the little bit of humanitarian aid. imo

But back to the subject, I would consider basic humanitarian aid not just because it is the right and Christian thing to do, but because of its longterm benefits in avoiding conflict.

As with any aid humanitarian or otherwise you give it and you make both enemies and friends.

Wouldn't a far better solution be to keep the government out and allow private enitites to provide the humanitarian aid. Seems to this hayseed two things would be accomplished;

First, those who choose not to participate because of their specific views would not be forced to participate and, second, by private entities providing the aid, it could not be siad that our government is playing favorites. Showing favortism preceived or otherise has caused numerous conflicts.

In reality, Humanitarian Aid to people in underdeveloped countries is akin to sitting out a saucer of food on your back step to feed a hungry stray female cat that came passing by.

Once fed, she will not stray very far and will be back the next day for something more to eat. And the next day, ….. and the next, …… and the next, …… and the next, …… as long as you keep setting out a little saucer of food. And if you forget or are late at setting out the food, she will sit at your back door meowing n’ meowing until she gets her free meal.

Then one day she will show up with a litter of kittens and they all will be hungry, ...... and all will be meowing, ……. and you will have to sit out a big plate of food each day. And pretty soon, all the kittens are grown, …… and for ya know it, ……. not only the mommy cat, ……… but all her daughters in the litter …….. will each have a new litter of kittens to call their own.

And they all will be hungry …. and all will be meowing, ……. and meowing to be fed …… and you will have to sit out 4 or 5 heaping plates of food. And the reproducing cycle starts anew.

Thus, you have not been providing Felineitarian Aid to the cats at your back door, ……. you are only providing them ……. Reproducing Aid.

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