No Privacy Rights for Teens in Cabell & Jackson Co.
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SamCogar
shermangeneral
Stephanie
7 posters
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No Privacy Rights for Teens in Cabell & Jackson Co.
If there's one thing I can say about educrats, they are very upfront with their bullshit.
http://www.wvgazette.com/News/200808030386?page=1&build=cache
http://www.wvgazette.com/News/200808030386?page=1&build=cache
Educators, advocates weigh pros and cons of student drug testing
Drug testing middle and high school students has plenty of pitfalls that area educators should consider, some anti-testing advocates say. Area school board members say the tests are simply meant to attack the "menace" of drug use in schools.
By Davin White
Staff writer
CHARLESTON, W.Va. -- Franklin Crabtree believes random drug tests might discourage a high school student from participation in sports or other after-school activities, which could hurt their chances of getting into college.
Jack Wiseman says students should face consequences when they break the rules.
Anti-drug testing advocates like Crabtree, executive director for the American Civil Liberties Union of West Virginia, say drug testing high school students poses plenty of pitfalls that area educators should consider.
Area school board members say the tests are simply meant to attack the "menace" of drug use in schools. "It's pretty simple to me: They follow the rules," said Wiseman, a Jackson County school board member.
The Jackson County Board of Education might soon join Cabell County in drug testing students who drive to school or participate in sports or other extracurricular activities.
Other West Virginia counties have other policies. Putnam County, for instance, offers a voluntary drug-testing program that rewards students with movie discounts and restaurant certificates for signing up.
"It sounds great on the face of it," said Marsha Rosenbaum of the national Drug Policy Alliance. "What we all want, what we're all striving for, is our teenagers to stay away from intoxicating substances."
The Drug Policy Alliance promotes policy alternatives to the drug war that are grounded in science, health and human rights, according to its Web site.
Rosenbaum said random tests create a cynicism in teenagers at a time when they learn American civics. "This is anything but innocent until proven guilty," she said.
She and Crabtree posed several arguments against student drug testing.
"Education is strapped for funds," Rosenbaum said. "We can't get teachers because the salaries are too low." She asked why not put funds for drug testing toward hiring strong school counselors familiar with the issues that students face.
More after-school programs could also help, Rosenbaum said. Research shows most high school students use drugs between 3 p.m. and 6 p.m., when parents are at work, she said.
"What about really good drug education instead of spending the dollars on a quick fix that may not even be a quick fix?" she asked.
Cabell County school board President Ted Barr expects the school system's drug testing program to cost about $27,000 to $30,000 this year. Tests will look for about 10 substances, which include marijuana and alcohol. A single test averages about $27, he said.
Rosenbaum sees problems with testing for alcohol. "You could tie one on Friday night or even Saturday night and it doesn't show up on [a test] Monday," she said.
Last week, hundreds of students set to attend Huntington and Cabell Midland high schools showed up at mandatory orientation for drug testing. Students who drive to school, have a parking pass, play sports or are involved in the band or other extracurricular activities must submit to random testing.
Barr said several parents also voluntarily signed children up for drug tests. Those are students who would otherwise be exempt because they don't drive to school or get involved in school activities.
"All in all, it looks like that's a majority of the parents who are backing it," Barr said. "I'd love to see us do a random testing of all students, but state law prohibits it."
In 2009, Barr said middle school students would also be tested. The testing is done by Sport Safe Testing Service, a company based in Powell, Ohio.
CHARLESTON, W.Va. -- Franklin Crabtree believes random drug tests might discourage a high school student from participation in sports or other after-school activities, which could hurt their chances of getting into college.
Jack Wiseman says students should face consequences when they break the rules.
Anti-drug testing advocates like Crabtree, executive director for the American Civil Liberties Union of West Virginia, say drug testing high school students poses plenty of pitfalls that area educators should consider.
Area school board members say the tests are simply meant to attack the "menace" of drug use in schools. "It's pretty simple to me: They follow the rules," said Wiseman, a Jackson County school board member.
The Jackson County Board of Education might soon join Cabell County in drug testing students who drive to school or participate in sports or other extracurricular activities.
Other West Virginia counties have other policies. Putnam County, for instance, offers a voluntary drug-testing program that rewards students with movie discounts and restaurant certificates for signing up.
"It sounds great on the face of it," said Marsha Rosenbaum of the national Drug Policy Alliance. "What we all want, what we're all striving for, is our teenagers to stay away from intoxicating substances."
The Drug Policy Alliance promotes policy alternatives to the drug war that are grounded in science, health and human rights, according to its Web site.
Rosenbaum said random tests create a cynicism in teenagers at a time when they learn American civics. "This is anything but innocent until proven guilty," she said.
She and Crabtree posed several arguments against student drug testing.
"Education is strapped for funds," Rosenbaum said. "We can't get teachers because the salaries are too low." She asked why not put funds for drug testing toward hiring strong school counselors familiar with the issues that students face.
More after-school programs could also help, Rosenbaum said. Research shows most high school students use drugs between 3 p.m. and 6 p.m., when parents are at work, she said.
"What about really good drug education instead of spending the dollars on a quick fix that may not even be a quick fix?" she asked.
Cabell County school board President Ted Barr expects the school system's drug testing program to cost about $27,000 to $30,000 this year. Tests will look for about 10 substances, which include marijuana and alcohol. A single test averages about $27, he said.
Rosenbaum sees problems with testing for alcohol. "You could tie one on Friday night or even Saturday night and it doesn't show up on [a test] Monday," she said.
Last week, hundreds of students set to attend Huntington and Cabell Midland high schools showed up at mandatory orientation for drug testing. Students who drive to school, have a parking pass, play sports or are involved in the band or other extracurricular activities must submit to random testing.
Barr said several parents also voluntarily signed children up for drug tests. Those are students who would otherwise be exempt because they don't drive to school or get involved in school activities.
"All in all, it looks like that's a majority of the parents who are backing it," Barr said. "I'd love to see us do a random testing of all students, but state law prohibits it."
In 2009, Barr said middle school students would also be tested. The testing is done by Sport Safe Testing Service, a company based in Powell, Ohio.
Rosenbaum said drug testing erodes relationships between parents and children and teachers and students.
"For some kids, the idea of having an invasive procedure is horribly embarrassing," she said. "The reality is that the cheapest way to do this continues to be a urine test."
She said if a student takes an antidepressant, or a prescription drug like Ritalin, they might be embarrassed that the information would be revealed.
In Jackson County, Wiseman said parents, the coach, the principal and the student would know about the alleged drug use. For first offenders, the intention is to offer help, and not severely punish or kick a student-athlete off the team, Wiseman said.
Jackson County officials suspect mostly marijuana use at Ripley and Ravenswood high schools, Wiseman said. Still, a few Jackson students have died from drug overdoses in recent years, he said.
"When we talk about saving one kid, it's worth it," he said.
Wiseman expects the county will also drug test students who participate in Future Farmers of America and other activities.
"It's basically suspicion-less search, is what it boils down to," Crabtree said. "There's a coercive element to it that's really objectionable."
If students figure out which drugs their peers get caught using, they might switch to using another drug, Rosenbaum said.
"You can never test the smorgasbord of what is available to a kid," Crabtree said.
Barr, a former police officer and sheriff, disagrees with critics.
He said in the 1800s, a group of people argued that the first lifeboats on ocean liners would give captains a false sense of security.
"They said the same thing about fingerprints and everything else," he said. "All those things can be proven to the contrary, I believe."
Barr said he is very proud to contribute to a policy that will help "control a menace that is destroying our society." Cabell students will be drug tested starting this fall. He first pushed for testing about 18 months ago, after a meeting where eight students faced expulsion for drug-related reasons.
"Here's the good thing: It gives a kid a chance to save face," Barr said about peer pressure. "It gives that student that chance to say no, without losing face, so to speak."
Likewise, Wiseman does not take much stock in the arguments against student drug tests.
"I think we've got such a problem that those things don't bother me," he said. Jackson school board members will vote this month on whether to approve random testing for the fall.
Rosenbaum cited a 2003 University of Michigan study that found virtually no difference in rates of teen drug use between schools with drug testing programs and those without.
"If you're interested in tackling a complex issue, you have to have complex solutions," she said.
Reach Davin White at davinwh...@wvgazette.com">davinwh...@wvgazette.com or 348-1254.
Re: No Privacy Rights for Teens in Cabell & Jackson Co.
Well Steph there for awhile they were bringing so-called drug dogs into the schools to sniff around.
How would you like to be sniffed?
How would you like to be sniffed?
shermangeneral- Number of posts : 1347
Location : Sherman, WV
Registration date : 2007-12-30
Re: No Privacy Rights for Teens in Cabell & Jackson Co.
I don't think they should be doing that either. They're schools, not prison camps, right?
Re: No Privacy Rights for Teens in Cabell & Jackson Co.
And why in hell are they sanctioning drug testing for students ....... but not for School Employees?
.
.
SamCogar- Number of posts : 6238
Location : Burnsville, WV
Registration date : 2007-12-28
Re: No Privacy Rights for Teens in Cabell & Jackson Co.
Because students don't have unions.
That would be my guess.
That would be my guess.
Aaron- Number of posts : 9841
Age : 58
Location : Putnam County for now
Registration date : 2007-12-28
Re: No Privacy Rights for Teens in Cabell & Jackson Co.
And yet we continue to pay them when they aren't at school. What a wonderful system.
Aaron- Number of posts : 9841
Age : 58
Location : Putnam County for now
Registration date : 2007-12-28
Re: No Privacy Rights for Teens in Cabell & Jackson Co.
I don't know how we can test the kids but not the teachers though. It makes absolutely no sense. Cabell County wanted to test all students but they found out that is illegal and they is why they have the current system in place.
Aaron- Number of posts : 9841
Age : 58
Location : Putnam County for now
Registration date : 2007-12-28
Re: No Privacy Rights for Teens in Cabell & Jackson Co.
Well then they should adopt a rule that any employee getting paid for any extra-curricular activity, drive to work, or hold a parking pass must submit to a drug test too.
Putnam County is doing a "voluntary" thing this year. Next week they're going to begin scheduling appointments. Kate already told me she isn't doing it. lol
She is her mother's daughter.
Putnam County is doing a "voluntary" thing this year. Next week they're going to begin scheduling appointments. Kate already told me she isn't doing it. lol
She is her mother's daughter.
Re: No Privacy Rights for Teens in Cabell & Jackson Co.
I won't allow mine to do it because that is a part of my children's life that I feel is my responsibility, not a school teachers or employee of the county. If Putnam County made it mandatory using the guidelines of Cabell County, I would join in a lawsuit to stop it.
Aaron- Number of posts : 9841
Age : 58
Location : Putnam County for now
Registration date : 2007-12-28
Re: No Privacy Rights for Teens in Cabell & Jackson Co.
And also if they require students and teachers I think any volunteer parents working in the schools should get sniffed too.
shermangeneral- Number of posts : 1347
Location : Sherman, WV
Registration date : 2007-12-30
Re: No Privacy Rights for Teens in Cabell & Jackson Co.
Any volunteer parent working with my kids should pass the sniff test....
shermangeneral- Number of posts : 1347
Location : Sherman, WV
Registration date : 2007-12-30
Re: No Privacy Rights for Teens in Cabell & Jackson Co.
Do you have a problem with ALL teachers being tested Sherm?
Aaron- Number of posts : 9841
Age : 58
Location : Putnam County for now
Registration date : 2007-12-28
shermangeneral- Number of posts : 1347
Location : Sherman, WV
Registration date : 2007-12-30
Re: No Privacy Rights for Teens in Cabell & Jackson Co.
Look I've given this a lot of thought. The teachers, administrators and all school employees should be tested, not the kids.
Adults have options...if they don't like the terms of their employment they can find another job. Nobody from the government is going to come after them and threaten them with court action or fine and/or jail their parents or spouse. They can seek employment in another sector.
Not so with students. Students are entrusted by parents to the care of teachers, bus drivers, support staff and administrators. They have no options. To demand testing of them is a clear invasion of privacy and if they don't submit to testing the consequences are very dire.
I'm very pleased to hear you're not going to participate in this Aaron. At the moment it's voluntary with results only being sent to parents but I say if parents want their children tested they should pay for it without school involvement at all.
This is a family matter not something the schools should be involving themselves in at all. Unlike their employees, which is a matter of public trust and welfare.
Adults have options...if they don't like the terms of their employment they can find another job. Nobody from the government is going to come after them and threaten them with court action or fine and/or jail their parents or spouse. They can seek employment in another sector.
Not so with students. Students are entrusted by parents to the care of teachers, bus drivers, support staff and administrators. They have no options. To demand testing of them is a clear invasion of privacy and if they don't submit to testing the consequences are very dire.
I'm very pleased to hear you're not going to participate in this Aaron. At the moment it's voluntary with results only being sent to parents but I say if parents want their children tested they should pay for it without school involvement at all.
This is a family matter not something the schools should be involving themselves in at all. Unlike their employees, which is a matter of public trust and welfare.
Re: No Privacy Rights for Teens in Cabell & Jackson Co.
Well Steph what about the volunteer parents working with students.?
They are much more likely to be druggies dont you think?
They are much more likely to be druggies dont you think?
shermangeneral- Number of posts : 1347
Location : Sherman, WV
Registration date : 2007-12-30
Re: No Privacy Rights for Teens in Cabell & Jackson Co.
Yes Sherm, I believe all teachers should be tested, pre-employment, post accident/incident, reasonable suspicion and random, just as most private companies do.
And not only will I not participate Stephanie, should it become mandatory, I will join the suit to have it dismissed.
I'm curious as to whether anyone is taking up suit in Cabell county.
Has anyone heard.
And not only will I not participate Stephanie, should it become mandatory, I will join the suit to have it dismissed.
I'm curious as to whether anyone is taking up suit in Cabell county.
Has anyone heard.
Aaron- Number of posts : 9841
Age : 58
Location : Putnam County for now
Registration date : 2007-12-28
Re: No Privacy Rights for Teens in Cabell & Jackson Co.
shermangeneral wrote:Well Steph what about the volunteer parents working with students.?
They are much more likely to be druggies dont you think?
Only if you don't want parents to volunteer in the schools.
And much more likely to be druggies than who, precisely? Preschoolers???
Re: No Privacy Rights for Teens in Cabell & Jackson Co.
Well you say the teachers and other school employees should be tested.
So why not the volunteers who work with the students?
Afterall we know much less about them than we do the school employees.
So why not the volunteers who work with the students?
Afterall we know much less about them than we do the school employees.
shermangeneral- Number of posts : 1347
Location : Sherman, WV
Registration date : 2007-12-30
Re: No Privacy Rights for Teens in Cabell & Jackson Co.
Who knows less about them? You? The building administrator? The other parents and students know a whole lot more about them than they do some bus driver from another town, or teacher from another county, or educrat brought in from another state.
Re: No Privacy Rights for Teens in Cabell & Jackson Co.
I have no problem with parents and volunteers submitting to background checks and filling out information sheets, at least long term volunteers.
If you're stating every parent that enters the school to help with a party or a dance submit to drug testing, that ain't going to happen. It's not practical and as Stephanie said, no one would volunteer.
If you're stating every parent that enters the school to help with a party or a dance submit to drug testing, that ain't going to happen. It's not practical and as Stephanie said, no one would volunteer.
Aaron- Number of posts : 9841
Age : 58
Location : Putnam County for now
Registration date : 2007-12-28
Re: No Privacy Rights for Teens in Cabell & Jackson Co.
Volunteers are very seldom left in charge of students. I could see background checks to weed out pedophiles. That's about it.
Re: No Privacy Rights for Teens in Cabell & Jackson Co.
There are certain volunteers that are left with children. I volunteered for years with JTPA and was routinely left alone with a classroom of kids. I have seen cases where some home room moms are left alone with kids as well as volunteer aids. I'm not saying it's supposed to happen, but it does.
And for the record, I filled out all the paperwork and submitted to a background check and it didn't bother me a bit.
I would bring up volunteer coaches but they already go through all of that when they apply with the county.
And for the record, I filled out all the paperwork and submitted to a background check and it didn't bother me a bit.
I would bring up volunteer coaches but they already go through all of that when they apply with the county.
Aaron- Number of posts : 9841
Age : 58
Location : Putnam County for now
Registration date : 2007-12-28
Re: No Privacy Rights for Teens in Cabell & Jackson Co.
I really don't know what JTPA is. lol
I have been left alone with children too in public schools, but not for hours at a time day after day. It's different.
One of the things I did that I enjoyed the least was when my middle son was in 1st grade I agreed to come in on Fridays for a couple of hours and let the children read to me. The children were sent to me one at a time to read aloud. Most of the teachers, children, and other parents knew me pretty well by that time. The principal and teachers knew me well enough to call me first whenever they needed something.
I have been left alone with children too in public schools, but not for hours at a time day after day. It's different.
One of the things I did that I enjoyed the least was when my middle son was in 1st grade I agreed to come in on Fridays for a couple of hours and let the children read to me. The children were sent to me one at a time to read aloud. Most of the teachers, children, and other parents knew me pretty well by that time. The principal and teachers knew me well enough to call me first whenever they needed something.
Re: No Privacy Rights for Teens in Cabell & Jackson Co.
I'm sorry, it was Junior Achievement. Brain fart. JTPA is a job training act of some sort.
And people don't realize it but when the teachers and principal get to know you by a first name basis, it sucks. They call you all the time. That's how I got into Junior Achievement. I was doing classes for grades my kids weren't even in.
But I do know most of the kids in school. It's nothing for a teenager to wave at me and I don't have a clue who they are but they know me.
And people don't realize it but when the teachers and principal get to know you by a first name basis, it sucks. They call you all the time. That's how I got into Junior Achievement. I was doing classes for grades my kids weren't even in.
But I do know most of the kids in school. It's nothing for a teenager to wave at me and I don't have a clue who they are but they know me.
Aaron- Number of posts : 9841
Age : 58
Location : Putnam County for now
Registration date : 2007-12-28
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