Doing What's Right

The WV Legislature should change this law. Until they do the union could bend the rules. Why won't the adults just do what's best for the child?

http://dailymail.com/News/200712280089

Boy caught in middle of teacher aide debate
by Kelly L. Holleran
Daily Mail staff

Schayne Martin sits in a chair in his kitchen, happily eating the macaroni and cheese his mother is feeding him.

Occasionally he will let out a loud, excited squeal.

Sometimes he will lift himself out of his seat and unsteadily walk across the kitchen.

Schayne is 14 years old but functions on the level of a 12- to 14-month old.

When he was 1, he was diagnosed with Angelman's Syndrome, a neurogenetic disorder.

Schayne can babble the words "mama" and "bubba." He has seizures and poor eating and sleeping habits. He drinks from a sippy cup. He wears a diaper.

All traits are typical of a person with the rare disorder.

Caring for Schayne is similar to caring for a small child. The difference is that Schayne has the strength of a boy his own age.

"He is a 14-year-old, but his chronological age is not the same as his development," said Michelle Martin, his mother. "These types of behaviors should be expected because that's what a toddler would do."

Because Schayne is school age, he is required by law to attend school.

So every day Michelle dresses him and takes him to Elkview Middle School, where he is an eighth-grader. He requires a one-on-one aide.

Because Schayne is difficult to care for, aides frequently take other positions when they open.

He has been in school for 9 years and has had eight different full-time aides, Michelle said.

It is difficult for him to adjust to new aides and for them to adjust to him.

The frequent changes upset Schayne, Michelle said.

Schayne is a strong boy who likes to pull hair and will sometimes bite people. Many aides do not know how to respond to his behavior.

One pulled his hair until there were big tears in his eyes to keep him from pulling her hair, Michelle said.

Another threatened to withhold his breakfast until he behaved the way she wanted him to, Michelle said.

Schayne must take medicine for his seizures. On three occasions, he was given medicine at the wrong time during the school day. One delay caused him to have a seizure, Michelle said.

Another time he suffered from a skin problem in his diaper area because aides were not using incontinence supplies and sometimes did not change his diaper at all, Michelle said.

Michelle believes all this could be prevented if Schayne had a consistent aide.

"Someone who's been with him awhile knows how to handle situations," she said.

For the past year, Lisa Nestor has cared for Schayne throughout the school day.

Nestor is a substitute aide who wants to stay with Schayne until he graduates from Herbert Hoover High School.

"Since he has had a committed person working as his one-on-one support at school, Schayne has not had medication errors and has not required any emergency medical attention," Michelle said in a letter to the Kanawha County school board.

Michelle has noticed big differences since Nestor started caring for Schayne.

"He's had better communication skills," she said. "He's emotionally more stable. Everybody at school was talking about how much better he could walk."

He makes eye contact with people now, something that did not happen before Nestor was around.

He went from concentrating on something for about 15 or 20 seconds to now being able to focus on a task for up to 15 minutes at a time, Michelle said.

State laws governing the hiring of school service personnel will prevent Nester, who is only a substitute aide, from staying assigned to Schayne.

Any service personnel, including former cooks, bus drivers and janitors, who meet certain criteria can apply to be a full-time aide when the position is open.

Aide positions open when the employee currently in the position decides to apply for another job. By law, school officials must advertise the position within 30 days and hire someone within 20 days, said Carol Hamric, human relations director for Kanawha County schools.

Aide positions are granted based on three criteria - seniority, qualification and satisfactory performance appraisal.

All applicants must pass a state competency exam and have a certain amount of first aid training, Hamric said.

But the most important factor is seniority. Service personnel law requires that jobs first be offered to employees with the most seniority. After that, officials have to look at the other two criteria, Hamric said.

Nestor cannot get the job because she does not have as much seniority as others who continually apply for the job.

In Schayne's situation, the position has been posted three different times since Nestor has been a substitute. Aides are hired but quickly leave, Michelle said.

"They all have used him as a means of getting their foot in the door to a full-time job and transfer as quickly as they can to another position," she said in the letter to the school board.

Michelle is pushing the school board to allow Nestor to stay, but they say they can do nothing to help her.

"We can't violate service personnel laws," Kanawha County Superintendent Ron Duerring said during a school board meeting. "There's nothing we can do."

If the school board were to give Nestor the job, it could be sued by employees with more seniority who applied for the position, board member Bill Raglin said during a school board meeting.

"It is very disruptive, but when it comes to employee-employer relationship, you can't hold out on someone who is going through the school," Hamric said.

The law may not be easy to change in the West Virginia legislature because lawmakers are bound by federal policies, said Sen. Mike Hall, R-Putnam.

"It's far more complicated to change because you have to deal with federal regulations," he said. "Funding depends on following federal guidelines."

When laws are made, lawmakers cannot always predict bad situations that may result, said Sen. Randy White, D-Webster.

"It's one of those rare situations that doesn't come up every day," he said. "Unfortunately, sometimes there are some people that suffer."

But he does hope that something can be done.

"Certainly for the sake of the child, I would hope that some sort of accommodation could be made," he said. "I know the education system really wants to do what is best for the child."

Lawmakers do agree that the law does need to be studied.

"I think it needs to be looked at," said Sen. Ron Stollings, D-Boone. "There's something to be said about the longevity. Turnover needs to be kept at a minimum."

The West Virginia legislature has heard the same complaint from other county boards and in the past has discussed looking at the policy to see what could be changed, Hall said.

"It's certainly a frustration that's felt across the state," he said. "I support taking a look at some of this and giving more control to school administrators."

Michelle hopes the law is changed soon, preferably before Schayne is out of school.

If not, she fears what could happen with a new aide.

"It's really hard (to drop him off at school) because I have to trust someone who is feeding him," she said. "He can't talk to me. He can't tell me if something has happened to him throughout the day. Due to the level of care that is required and the fact that he is nonverbal, Schayne is in a very vulnerable situation."

This is a sad situation brought about by micromanagement and the authoritarian attitude of trying to have restrictive regulation of every phase of things.

Just like those who want to similarly restrict the budgetary procedure vis a vis earmark legislation.

Stephanie wrote:The WV Legislature should change this law. Until they do the union could bend the rules. Why won't the adults just do what's best for the child?

http://dailymail.com/News/200712280089

Stephanie, you are making the same mistake a lot of people make. There is no "union" in the conventional sense of the word involved here. There is no union contract in which a change to address a special circumstance can be negoitiated. As so there is no "rules" for the only hypothetical "union" to bend.

There is only the law as enacated by the state legislature. The legislature can change that any time it wants to. But NO ONE ELSE can chamge the law- nor even negotiate around it.

If there were truly a union-mamangement agreement / contract in place, then yes, it could be opened up for negotiations at any time- by mutual agreement of the parties. But the law is what it is- until the legislature changes it. The legislature does not allow unions with the power to bargain to addreess the sutiation you cite. And the legislature does not respond to practical problems- only to political pressure.

You and Aaron often blast teacher "unions" here. But in actuality in West Virginia there are no school employee "unions" with bargaining leverage to give and take or "bend" on anything. There is only the legislature- who's primary objective is re-election in the next election.

passerby wrote:This is a sad situation brought about by micromanagement and the authoritarian attitude of trying to have restrictive regulation of every phase of things.

Just like those who want to similarly restrict the budgetary procedure vis a vis earmark legislation.

Now that is surely comparing apples to oranges.

In the case of earmarks, nobody has any control or oversight. In the case of school support staff it is the WV Legislature refusing to allow districts any management authority.

Ziggy,

Do you know where in the code this can be found? I'm interested to know if there is literally nothing the local school board or administration can do. Depending how it is worded other options may be available.

An example of this would be if the board could enact a rule requiring aides who perform personal care type duties commit to a minimum two or three year assignment. It would greatly reduce the number of employees applying for such a position.

The fact that the union doesn't have the legal ability to negotiate alterations WV law, there is a union, is there not? Reasonable adults might take a look at this situation and decide in the best interests of the student involved to pressure their fellow district employees not to use this child's plight as a stepping stone to a situation they find comfortable.

As a matter of fact, the other employees of that district could make it known that individuals who continue this practice will likely be subject to the cold shoulder. Sometimes shunning can be a very effective way of altering bad behavior.

Stephanie wrote:Ziggy,

Do you know where in the code this can be found? I'm interested to know if there is literally nothing the local school board or administration can do. Depending how it is worded other options may be available.

I will find that part of the code and post it- later tonight or maybe tomorrow. But it is Chapter 18-A of WV Code.

An example of this would be if the board could enact a rule requiring aides who perform personal care type duties commit to a minimum two or three year assignment. It would greatly reduce the number of employees applying for such a position.

No, county boards of education are not allowed that kind of autonomy. The WV legislature eschews local control of almost everything in the state.

The fact that the union doesn't have the legal ability to negotiate alterations WV law, there is a union, is there not?

It depends on what you mean by a "union". For non-professional employees, there is the WV Schools Service Personnel Association. And there is the service personnel division of the WV Education Education. But the employees involved may not even be members of either of those competing organizations. But even if they are, that means almost nothing on a local level. There are no union shops in WV public schools.

Reasonable adults might take a look at this situation and decide in the best interests of the student involved to pressure their fellow district employees not to use this child's plight as a stepping stone to a situation they find comfortable. As a matter of fact, the other employees of that district could make it known that individuals who continue this practice will likely be subject to the cold shoulder. Sometimes shunning can be a very effective way of altering bad behavior.

Again, I think maybe you do not understand. Under WV law, the only way to "advance" up through the system is to "bid" on jobs as they open up. For the substitute aide that seems to have a good rapport with this student to stay in place, it would mean to stand the whole job bid system based on job seniority on its head. It would mean that a substitute aide be given preference over full time, more experienced personnel who have legal rights under the law. Again, this is the state law, not some local county school system contractural matter that could be made exception for without changing state law.

This would all be so unnecessary but were county school employees allowed collective bargaining rights under state law- and/or by affirmative action of county school boards of education. But county boards of education are no more interested in bargaining with its employees than are state legislators to encourage it. And so what we have is a hodge-podge of competing employee associations, with some employees associted with one, other employees associated with another organization, and yet others associated with no employee association at all. The single "union" you infer is but an imaginary entity. The actual situation is a tangle of competing employee groups, and with many employees having no group association- precisely what the coal and other state monied interests want to keep employees unorganized and weak.

And so that makes it easy for the state law to be the "only game in town".

You see unions as the only solution. I view unions as another host of problems, particularly if employees are forced to join, or at least pay union dues. Where is the freedom in that.

From what I can tell it seems to me that WV law regarding public school employees need a major overhaul. If the state wants to stipulate every detail of employment for district employees, that might be ok, if the state took on the full financial burden.

However, under the current situation most of the burden falls on local property owners in WV just as it does in other states, correct? To me that's the real problem. Why should citizens funding the lion's share of public schools with local property taxes not have local control over employee contracts?

Again, I think maybe you do not understand. Under WV law, the only way to "advance" up through the system is to "bid" on jobs as they open up. For the substitute aide that seems to have a good rapport with this student to stay in place, it would mean to stand the whole job bid system based on job seniority on its head. It would mean that a substitute aide be given preference over full time, more experienced personnel who have legal rights under the law.

Here I have to ask the question for who's benefit do the public schools exist primarily? In the statement above it appears as though you believe the primary purpose of public schools is to provide employment and job security for people. That is not their primary function. The primary function of our public schools is to provide a free and appropriate education to the children of the community. Keeping that in mind the needs of the students should always be first. Period.

It is precisely that type of argument that makes me very leery of unions for public school employees. Those unions never place the best interests of the students over the best interests of the students they are paid to serve. The welfare of the students must be first.

If the people working in that building placed the needs of the boy the article focuses on in the postion of importance they should, this wouldn't be the problem it is. They would gladly exert pressure on those employees so eager to use his misfortune as a stepping stone to better postions and end this abuse of a human being. That's exactly what it is, abuse of a handicapped child. Shame on them all.

"However, under the current situation most of the burden falls on local property owners in WV just as it does in other states, correct? To me that's the real problem. Why should citizens funding the lion's share of public schools with local property taxes not have local control over employee contracts?"

I think you might ought to re-check on that...

There a LOT MORE to this situation that what is reported. As usual. The school system is not the big, bad ugly it's being made out to be.

Remember - there are at least 2 sides to every story.

I will not say more due to confidentiality. Just don't use this story to justify beating up the school system this time.

Stephanie wrote:You see unions as the only solution.

No. But you seem to see "unions" as the cause of- or at least the temporary solution-to the situation you cite.

I am telling you what I do here so that you might understand that, contrary to your suggestion, it is not "unions" that make the rules or that can "bend" the rules in West Virginia. It is the state legislature. I am trying to tell you how it is, not what I think it should be.

But at least if we had school employee unions with negotiable county school system contracts there would be an entity to try to convince to "bend" the rules, as you suggest. As it is, all we have are the laws written by the state legislature.

shermang wrote:"However, under the current situation most of the burden falls on local property owners in WV just as it does in other states, correct? To me that's the real problem. Why should citizens funding the lion's share of public schools with local property taxes not have local control over employee contracts?"

I think you might ought to re-check on that...

Hey Sherm!

I'm doing that very thing right now, just as you suggested.

Here you go, Stephanie:

http://www.legis.state.wv.us/WVCODE/18A/masterfrmFrm.htm

§18A-4-8b. Seniority rights for school service personnel.
(a) A county board shall make decisions affecting promotions and the filling of any service personnel positions of employment or jobs occurring throughout the school year that are to be performed by service personnel as provided in section eight of this article, on the basis of seniority, qualifications and evaluation of past service.
(b) Qualifications means that the applicant holds a classification title in his or her category of employment as provided in this section and shall be given first opportunity for promotion and filling vacancies. Other employees then shall be considered and shall qualify by meeting the definition of the job title as defined in section eight of this article, that relates to the promotion or vacancy. If requested by the employee, the county board shall show valid cause why a service person with the most seniority is not promoted or employed in the position for which he or she applies. Applicants shall be considered in the following order:
(1) Regularly employed service personnel;
(2) Service personnel whose employment has been discontinued in accordance with this section;
(3) Professional personnel who held temporary service personnel jobs or positions prior to the ninth day of June, one thousand nine hundred eighty-two, and who apply only for these temporary jobs or positions;
(4) Substitute service personnel; and
(5) New service personnel.
(c) The county board may not prohibit a service person from retaining or continuing his or her employment in any positions or jobs held prior to the effective date of this section and thereafter.
(d) A promotion is defined as any change in employment that the service person considers to improve his or her working circumstance within the classification category of employment.
(1) A promotion includes a transfer to another classification category or place of employment if the position is not filled by an employee who holds a title within that classification category of employment.
(2) Each class title listed in section eight of this article is considered a separate classification category of employment for service personnel, except for those class titles having Roman numeral designations, which shall be considered a single classification of employment:
(A) The cafeteria manager class title is included in the same classification category as cooks;
(B) The executive secretary class title is included in the same classification category as secretaries;
(C) Paraprofessional, autism mentor and braille or sign language specialist class titles are included in the same classification category as aides; and
(D) The mechanic assistant and chief mechanic class titles are included in the same classification category as mechanics.
(e) For purposes of determining seniority under this section an service person's seniority begins on the date that he or she enters into the assigned duties.
(f) Extra-duty assignments.
(1) For the purpose of this section, "extra-duty assignments" are defined as irregular jobs that occur periodically or occasionally such as, but not limited to, field trips, athletic events, proms, banquets and band festival trips.
(2) Notwithstanding any other provisions of this chapter to the contrary, decisions affecting service personnel with respect to extra-duty assignments shall be made in the following manner:
(A) A service person with the greatest length of service time in a particular category of employment shall be given priority in accepting extra duty assignments, followed by other fellow employees on a rotating basis according to the length of their service time until all such employees have had an opportunity to perform similar assignments. The cycle then shall be repeated.
(B) An alternative procedure for making extra-duty assignments within a particular classification category of employment may be used if the alternative procedure is approved both by the county board and by an affirmative vote of two thirds of the employees within that classification category of employment.
(g) County boards shall post and date notices of all job vacancies of established existing or newly created positions in conspicuous places for all school service personnel to observe for at least five working days.
(1) Posting locations shall include any website maintained by or available for the use of the county board.
(2) Notice of a job vacancy shall include the job description, the period of employment, the amount of pay and any benefits and other information that is helpful to prospective applicants to understand the particulars of the job. Job postings for vacancies made pursuant to this section shall be written so as to ensure that the largest possible pool of qualified applicants may apply. Job postings may not require criteria which are not necessary for the successful performance of the job and may not be written with the intent to favor a specific applicant.
(3) After the five-day minimum posting period, all vacancies shall be filled within twenty working days from the posting date notice of any job vacancies of established existing or newly created positions.
(4) The county board shall notify any person who has applied for a job posted pursuant to this section of the status of his or her application as soon as possible after the county board makes a hiring decision regarding the posted position.
(h) All decisions by county boards concerning reduction in work force of service personnel shall be made on the basis of seniority, as provided in this section.
(i) The seniority of any service person shall be determined on the basis of the length of time the employee has been employed by the county board within a particular job classification. For the purpose of establishing seniority for a preferred recall list as provided in this section, when a service person has been employed in one or more classifications, the seniority accrued in each previous classification is retained by the employee.
(j) If a county board is required to reduce the number of service personnel within a particular job classification, the following conditions apply:
(1) The employee with the least amount of seniority within that classification or grades of classification shall be properly released and employed in a different grade of that classification if there is a job vacancy;
(2) If there is no job vacancy for employment within that classification or grades of classification, the service person shall be employed in any other job classification which he or she previously held with the county board if there is a vacancy and shall retain any seniority accrued in the job classification or grade of classification.
(k) Prior to the first day of August after a reduction in force or transfer is approved:
(1) If the county board in its sole and exclusive judgment determines that the reason for any particular reduction in force or transfer no longer exists, the board shall rescind the reduction in force or transfer and notify the affected employee in writing of the right to be restored to his or her former position of employment.
(2) Within five days of being notified, the affected employee shall notify the county board of his or her intent to return to the former position of employment or the right of restoration to the former position terminates:
(3) The county board shall not rescind the reduction in force of an employee until all service personnel with more seniority in the classification category on the preferred recall list have been offered the opportunity for recall to regular employment as provided in this section.
(4) If there are insufficient vacant positions to permit reemployment of all more senior employees on the preferred recall list within the classification category of the service person who was subject to reduction in force, the position of the released service person shall be posted and filled in accordance with this section.
(l) If two or more service persons accumulate identical seniority, the priority shall be determined by a random selection system established by the employees and approved by the county board.
(m) All service personnel whose seniority with the county board is insufficient to allow their retention by the county board during a reduction in work force shall be placed upon a preferred recall list and shall be recalled to employment by the county board on the basis of seniority.
(n) A service person placed upon the preferred list shall be recalled to any position openings by the county board within the classification(s) where he or she had previously been employed, or to any lateral position for which the service person is qualified or to a lateral area for which a service person has certification and/or licensure.
(o) A service person on the preferred recall list shall not forfeit the right to recall by the county board if compelling reasons require him or her to refuse an offer of reemployment by the county board.
(p) The county board shall notify all service personnel on the preferred recall list of all position openings that exist from time to time. The notice shall be sent by certified mail to the last known address of the service person. Each service person shall notify the county board of any change of address.
(q) No position openings may be filled by the county board, whether temporary or permanent, until all service personnel on the preferred recall list have been properly notified of existing vacancies and have been given an opportunity to accept reemployment.
(r) A service person released from employment for lack of need as provided in sections six and eight-a, article two of this chapter shall be accorded preferred recall status on the first day of July of the succeeding school year if the he or she has not been reemployed as a regular employee.
(s) A county board failing to comply with the provisions of this article may be compelled to do so by mandamus and is liable to any party prevailing against the board for court costs and the prevailing party's reasonable attorney fee, as determined and established by the court.
(1) A service person denied promotion or employment in violation of this section shall be awarded the job, pay and any applicable benefits retroactively to the date of the violation and shall be paid entirely from local funds.
(2) The county board is liable to any party prevailing against the board for any court reporter costs including copies of transcripts.

shermang wrote:"However, under the current situation most of the burden falls on local property owners in WV just as it does in other states, correct? To me that's the real problem. Why should citizens funding the lion's share of public schools with local property taxes not have local control over employee contracts?"

I think you might ought to re-check on that...

Well, it appears the state does pay the majority of school expenses here in WV. It's really quite remarkable. I stand corrected! It would appear from what I've read in 18-9A the state pays almost all of the salaries, transportation and other costs. Makes me wonder where all that property tax money goes. Volunteer fire departments don't get a whole lot of money. No local police department sucking up funds. Must be all those county roads. I wonder if the counties receive any of the revenue from the gas taxes we all pay. Probably not much, if they do.

(Stephanie)- Makes me wonder where all that property tax money goes. Volunteer fire departments don't get a whole lot of money. No local police department sucking up funds.

Your local sheriff's department is funded almost entirely by county tax funds- with a few special state and federal grants for drunk driving patrols, etc.

And all the offices in the Courthouse are funded by county tax funds- County Commission, Circuit Clerk, County Clerk, sheriff and deputies (including jail costs), etc.

Must be all those county roads.

No, there are no county roads in West Virginia. All roads in WV are either state roads or city streets (or private roads).

I wonder if the counties receive any of the revenue from the gas taxes we all pay. Probably not much, if they do.

None, as far as I know.

About 70 percent of county property tax dollars go to county boards of education to support public schools. But even at that it's only maybe 10-15 percent or so of the budgets of county school systems. Salaries and transportation are mostly (but not entirely) covered by the state. But the state pays little to nothing for school building maintenence & repairs, heating & cooling costs, insurance, etc.- which are borne by the counties. And some WV counties pay school employee salary supplements in addition to what the state pays for basic salaries.

Stephanie, when you came here from Rhode Island did you not notice that property taxes are lower here? I do not know about Rhode Island specifically. But overall West Virginia property taxes are lower than many other states- especially heavily populated states.

Ziggy,

Thank you for finding that for me. I spent quite a while finding and then reading the state's "formula" for funding public schools. There is no way I would have had the stamina to search for that too.

§18A-4-8b. Seniority rights for school service personnel.
(a) A county board shall make decisions affecting promotions and the filling of any service personnel positions of employment or jobs occurring throughout the school year that are to be performed by service personnel as provided in section eight of this article, on the basis of seniority, qualifications and evaluation of past service.
(b) Qualifications means that the applicant holds a classification title in his or her category of employment as provided in this section and shall be given first opportunity for promotion and filling vacancies. Other employees then shall be considered and shall qualify by meeting the definition of the job title as defined in section eight of this article, that relates to the promotion or vacancy. If requested by the employee, the county board shall show valid cause why a service person with the most seniority is not promoted or employed in the position for which he or she applies. Applicants shall be considered in the following order:
(1) Regularly employed service personnel;
(2) Service personnel whose employment has been discontinued in accordance with this section;

I realize an employee can launch a legal challenge if an employee with less seniority, or a substitute employee fills a vacancy. The board must show valid cause why the most senior person didn't receive the position. Certainly the best interests of a handicapped student would likely be determined a valid reason for not using seniority as the determining factor.

Sasha hints there is "more to this story". There very well may be. However, if the facts are the district hasn't been able to provide this particular student with consistant, reliable assistance and there currently is a qualified individual performing that role to the satisfaction of the student and his family, it stands to reason that this person should be the one given preference for the position.

In Schayne's situation, the position has been posted three different times since Nestor has been a substitute. Aides are hired but quickly leave, Michelle said.

If the above is accurate, and this child has had 3 different aides in the past year in addition to the woman who's been subbing in that position for a year, I can't imagine what more could be revealed that could possibly justify the continuation of allowing the seniority of employees to trump the rights of that child and his family to receive consistant, appropriate, compassionate care in the school.

I also think that if it is accurate that this student has had 3 aides fill the position and move on to other positions in a single year that would just make the school board's defense a fairly easy one.

According to this chart, Stephanie ( http://www.taxfoundation.org/files/propertytax_state%20_owneroccupied_2006-20070912.swf )

Rhode Island is 6th from the highest in owner occupied home property taxes, and West Virginia is 49th.

Ziggy,

The property taxes are lower here, but there are almost no services here either.

Nearly every community in RI has it's own police force. There is one exception, Exeter. Of course I left a while ago and they may have one too. Nearly every one of those police departments is manned 24 hours a day. Nearly all of the fire departments are fully funded. Only in the rural areas do any volunteer fire departments remain.

In addition to public schools, police and fire protection, RI communities provide their citizens with a host of other services and ammenities that are sorely lacking here. Senior Citizen centers and services abound, as recreational areas and opportunities for citizens of all ages.

In RI, the local communities fund the libraries. I believe in WV the school districts do, but it is unclear to me if they use state monies or local revenue to support them.

So here I sit in WV and wonder where does all the money go? I now realize they are funding most of the costs associated with education but still! This state taxes everything from apples to zippers. I still can't believe they tax milk and bread here. It's shameful. It also makes me wonder about a few things.

Like..........people who receive food stamps. When a person buys groceries with food stamps is the state of WV slapping that tax on those groceries??? If so, do they take it off the food stamp allotment or do they require these people to pay the tax in cash? I'm sincerely hoping they give them a pass on that tax but I don't know.

Oh and another thing, the state income tax rate here is extremely high. So yes, RI has a state income tax, but it is quite a bit lower than that of WV. By the way, RI doesn't tax clothing items either.

Also, state and federal funds pay for roughly 60% of education costs in that state. The state frequently covers a much higher percentage than that for new construction and renovations. The formula there is rather complex but it takes into account student enrollment, poverty levels, and the tax base of the cities and towns. RI also provides extra funding for the 3 regional districts and the state fully funds the career and tech (vocational) schools.

Stephanie wrote:Sasha hints there is "more to this story". There very well may be. However, if the facts are the district hasn't been able to provide this particular student with consistant, reliable assistance and there currently is a qualified individual performing that role to the satisfaction of the student and his family, it stands to reason that this person should be the one given preference for the position.

In Schayne's situation, the position has been posted three different times since Nestor has been a substitute. Aides are hired but quickly leave, Michelle said.

If the above is accurate, and this child has had 3 different aides in the past year in addition to the woman who's been subbing in that position for a year, I can't imagine what more could be revealed that could possibly justify the continuation of allowing the seniority of employees to trump the rights of that child and his family to receive consistant, appropriate, compassionate care in the school.

I also think that if it is accurate that this student has had 3 aides fill the position and move on to other positions in a single year that would just make the school board's defense a fairly easy one.

Recently I heard an anecdotal report that a similar situation occured several years ago here in Jackson County. That report indicated that the student's IEP (individual education plan) included a doctor's recommendation that a specifc substitute aide who had gotten along well with the student be assigned permanently to the student. Reportedly this was done and the same aide stayed with the student through several years of his/her schooling in Jackson County.

I do not know how/if this comported with the senority system for filling vacancies- and I do not know for certain that it took place this way. It is just what I was told by someone.

If it was done, it could have taken place legally- and with cooperation from some prospective vacancy applicants until the substitute aid was hired as a permanent aide. But this is a small county, compared to Kanawha County. And so one might concieve of some temporary "understandings" that took place here that could not take place in a large county with thousands of employees, such as Kanawha County.

I think the rest of you should think long and hard at what was said in the following:

wvsasha wrote:There a LOT MORE to this situation that what is reported. As usual. The school system is not the big, bad ugly it's being made out to be.

Remember - there are at least 2 sides to every story.

I will not say more due to confidentiality. Just don't use this story to justify beating up the school system this time.

Now I read through the posted article ........ and it is so "full of it" ....... it would or should "gag a maggot" away from a rotting skunk corpse lying on the blacktop in 98 degree temperature.

From said article I picked three (3) segments to comment on, to wit:

Schayne is 14 years old but functions on the level of a 12- to 14-month old.

When he was 1, he was diagnosed with Angelman's Syndrome, a neurogenetic disorder.

Caring for Schayne is similar to caring for a small child. The difference is that Schayne has the strength of a boy his own age.

"He is a 14-year-old, but his chronological age is not the same as his development," said Michelle Martin, his mother. "These types of behaviors should be expected because that's what a toddler would do."

Because Schayne is school age, he is required by law to attend school.

Given the above, this discussion shouldn’t go any farther until some “sense n’ sensibility” is restored to the Control and Functioning of our Public School System.

A person with the mind of a one (1) year old should not be permitted, ….. nor forced, ….. to be placed, enrolled or attend a WV Public School.

A person should not be permitted, ….. nor forced, ….. to be placed, enrolled or attend a Class being taught in a WV Public School unless they are mentally capable of performing at the “Grade Level” of said Class. And each School year, hundreds of “normal” students in WV Schools are “held back” and forced to repeat a Grade Level and there is no Law(s) preventing said action.

It is not the “age Law” that requires Schayne to attend school, ……. it is the “Inclusion Law” that requires the School to permit and/or enroll Schayne as a student.

He requires a one-on-one aide.

Because Schayne is difficult to care for, aides frequently take other positions when they open.

He has been in school for 9 years and has had eight different full-time aides, Michelle said.

What a bunch of delusional HORSEPUCKY that was.

First of all, Aides are not Teachers and therefore an Aide should not be assigned to the “Teaching” of Shayne.

But no Teacher wants or will accept the “job” because they know it is a useless and dangerous job, so by default, an Aide is assigned the job. Not a full-time Aide, …… but a Substitute Aide, ……. because no full-time Aides will take that “job” either.

For the past year, Lisa Nestor has cared for Schayne throughout the school day.

Nestor is a substitute aide who wants to stay with Schayne until he graduates from Herbert Hoover High School.

State laws governing the hiring of school service personnel will prevent Nester, who is only a substitute aide, from staying assigned to Schayne.

DUH, "until he graduates from Herbert Hoover High School". Now talk about HORSEPUCKY, ..... that was a mouthfull.

And they "hold back" ....... NORMAL students for being per say "slow learners", ...... but they promote the TOTALLY "mentally incompetents" to the next higher Grade Level.

And “DUH”, of course she wants to “stay with Schayne until he graduates”, ……. Nester has a steady job, ….. is accruing “employment time” …….. and wants to be hired as a “full time Aide”.

And you can “bet your bippy”, …… that if she is hired as “full-time”, ….. she will no longer want to “babysit” Shayne.

cheers

And ps, an added thought to the "non-education" of Schayne by our Public School System is the "co$t" of his non-education.

Estimated cost per each "normal student" is $7,000+- per year.

Estimated cost for Schayne via a "babysitting" Aide is $20,000+ per year.

Estimated cost for Schayne via a "babysitting" Teacher is $35,000+ per year.

So, for $7,000 per year ..... you got a 70% to 100% chance of achieving "good results",

but for $20,000 to $35,000 plus per year ....... you got a 00.00% chance of achieving "good results".

Now that is a "wise expenditure" of Educational dollars.

But ya do get a "feel good feeling" for your money, .... right?

.

Recently I heard an anecdotal report that a similar situation occured several years ago here in Jackson County. That report indicated that the student's IEP (individual education plan) included a doctor's recommendation that a specifc substitute aide who had gotten along well with the student be assigned permanently to the student. Reportedly this was done and the same aide stayed with the student through several years of his/her schooling in Jackson County.

I like that idea. It's creative and I think it may work.

While my understanding of IDEA is limited, it probably is a little greater than average. My understanding of the law and IEP's is that once an IEP is written, it sort of "becomes" or "is" the federal law pertaining to that particular student. Federal law will trump state law so if this was done it would be legal, imho.

The deal is getting the IEP team to agree to it. The parent can request it, a doctor can recommend it, but in the end it is the decision of the "team". That team will include the parents, an administrator, the special education teacher, a "regular" or general education teacher, perhaps the school psychologist, social worker, psychiatrist etc. If the parents aren't happy with the IEP created, there is an appeal process.

Sam,

Sometimes I really have to wonder about you. This is one of those times.

While I share your concerns over the state compelling this student to attend public school, I oppose compulsory education period. I'm not sure at all you share that view. If memory serves, I seem to recall discussing compulsory education laws with you some months back in the old forum and you being squarely in favor of them. Of course I may be wrong about that.

In any event, the situation at hand. Of course that student should be entitled to a free and appropriate education. The question isn't should he be permitted to attend school. What would you do with him? Lock him away in an institution some where? Require his parents to provide round the clock care for him until their deaths?

No the question shouldn't be should he be permitted to attend school. The questions should be where should he attend school? What learning environment will best suit his needs without disrupting the education of the other students in his community? Who should fund his education and how should it be funded? Those are reasonable questions to ask and those issues should be addressed.

Neither you nor I have any business in theorizing what this boy may have accomplished or may be able to accomplish in the future. With appropriate services many students with severe to profound disabilities learn to function independently. Some learn only how to feed, toilet and dress themselves, but certainly those possessing those skills vastly improve their quality of life and the lives of their families. Some learn to talk and walk, or they learn social skills.

I'd like to think you don't wish to go back to the days when severely disabled children were warehoused, locked away from the rest of society. Placed in facilities where they received no training, and few services. I know that's not what you desire.

You're a hell of a lot better than that. So tell us what you think should be done.

Stephanie wrote:Sam,

Sometimes I really have to wonder about you. This is one of those times.

While I share your concerns over the state compelling this student to attend public school, I oppose compulsory education period. I'm not sure at all you share that view. If memory serves, I seem to recall discussing compulsory education laws with you some months back in the old forum and you being squarely in favor of them. Of course I may be wrong about that.

In any event, the situation at hand. Of course that student should be entitled to a free and appropriate education. The question isn't should he be permitted to attend school. What would you do with him? Lock him away in an institution some where? Require his parents to provide round the clock care for him until their deaths?

No the question shouldn't be should he be permitted to attend school. The questions should be where should he attend school? What learning environment will best suit his needs without disrupting the education of the other students in his community? Who should fund his education and how should it be funded? Those are reasonable questions to ask and those issues should be addressed.

Neither you nor I have any business in theorizing what this boy may have accomplished or may be able to accomplish in the future. With appropriate services many students with severe to profound disabilities learn to function independently. Some learn only how to feed, toilet and dress themselves, but certainly those possessing those skills vastly improve their quality of life and the lives of their families. Some learn to talk and walk, or they learn social skills.

I'd like to think you don't wish to go back to the days when severely disabled children were warehoused, locked away from the rest of society. Placed in facilities where they received no training, and few services. I know that's not what you desire.

You're a hell of a lot better than that. So tell us what you think should be done.

Well now Stephanie, I know you don’t like and are not supporting Mitt Romney, …… but just what is your problem with

this Romney?

DUH?????????????????

.

SamCogar wrote:
Well now Stephanie, I know you don’t like and are not supporting Mitt Romney, …… but just what is your problem with

this Romney?

DUH?????????????????

.

Sam,

My problem with that Romney is it shouldn't be the only option. Do you want to segregate all of the severely handicapped children in WV from the general student population?

I have a couple of problems with that. First of all, if we segregate them all from the rest of the student population, they will likely be feared and shunned. I don't think it would be a very good idea to return to the days when the only children seen in public schools are those without impairment.

Also, seperate but equal is nearly impossible to achieve. If we force segregation on the disabled population they will undoubtedly receive inferior services. That is why racial segregation was banned in this country.

I think schools for the deaf, schools for the blind, and schools for youngsters with other kinds of disabilities serve a vital function and should be supported. I don't think they should be the only option, though.

Stephanie wrote: Sam,

My problem with that Romney is it shouldn't be the only option. Do you want to segregate all of the severely handicapped children in WV from the general student population?

I have a couple of problems with that. First of all, if we segregate them all from the rest of the student population, they will likely be feared and shunned. I don't think it would be a very good idea to return to the days when the only children seen in public schools are those without impairment.

HAH, a student doesn't have to be mildly handicapped, ..... or handicapped at all, ........ to be feared, bullied, teased, picked-on and/or shunned by other students ..... and Teachers.

The "picture" always looks so purty and tranquile to all those who have never had to "walk a few steps" ...... in another person's shoes.