Fannie, Freddie and Bill.

"Gentlemen, I have had men watching you for a long time and I am convinced that you have used the funds of the bank to speculate in the breadstuffs of the country. When you won, you divided the profits amongst you, and when you lost, you charged it to the bank. You tell me that if I take the deposits from the bank and annul its charter, I shall ruin ten thousand families. That may be true, gentlemen, but that is your sin! Should I let you go on, you will ruin fifty thousand families, and that would be my sin! You are a den of vipers and thieves."

- Andrew Jackson

Andy figured it out 2 centuries ago. Why can't the people that run this country get over their greed?

Steph, show me one single bit of evidence to support your claim that Klinton FORCED these poor, poor banks to make BAD loans.

The banks were encouraged to make the loans, nothing more.

I blame this, still, on the deregulation of the 80's (link clicky).

I also blame:

1: The lenders who lent insane amounts of money to people who didn't have a pot to piss in to get a higher commission, the guys who turned toxic loans into AAA CDOs, the Wall Street firms who sold them.

2: Credit rating companies that were being payed a "maintenance fee" (around $1 million per year) for each CDO they rated AAA; pretty much a bribe. Lenders would falsify reported income in order to get a higher loan amount and thus a higher commission. Lenders would also pull a bait-and-switch with the terms of loans in order to get people in the more profitable ARMs, even though they thought they were signing a 30 year fixed.

A possible fix:

First, the private sector solution:

The banks holding the paper on these houses should be aggressively seeking to extend the existing loan terms on those houses that are still occupied ("you screwed up by taking too large of a loan, and we screwed up by giving it to you"). The loan terms get renegotiated, the homeowner doesn't have to move out. Maybe the government steps in a bit and gives a small tax break to banks that do this to some percentage of their portfolio, maybe not.

Second, the Government solution:

Instead of buying the loans/packages/world debt instruments held by the Banks, the government should go right to the property level. Buy the available land/houses directly. Those that are still occupied can renegotiate their loan terms directly with Fannie and Freddy (as instruments of the government). The houses that are not occupied can be either torn down entirely, and reverted to public land, used to house the poor, hell - give them to vets. What matters is that for the money, the Government receives an actual tangible asset (as opposed to an imaginary debt instrument with dubious 'real' value).

(P.S. these latter ideas are not my own but I LIKE them)

I don't have a 401K and I don't really feel like paying for anyone else's.

sodbuster wrote:Well you and Steph need to get on the same page.

She claims he was directly responsible for these guys defaulting on their mortgages ten years later.

But she has yet to explain how these so-called bad mortgages seem to have got paid all these years till right now.

I offered one possible explanation but none of you guys seem to have an explanation.

Just this unsubstantiated theory that it was somehow Clinton's fault.

You got er right big boy.

When I went default on my home loan ten years ago, ......... every home loan held by every bank in Braxton County went default on their loans.

Right on, ..... its all or nothing just as you imply.

Steph, show me one single bit of evidence to support your claim that Klinton FORCED these poor, poor banks to make BAD loans.

The banks were encouraged to make the loans, nothing more.

Show me where I said Clinton "FORCED" these banks to make these loans? If I did, it was a misstatement. If I believed Clinton "FORCED" these banks to make bad loans, I wouldn't be nearly as outraged at the thought of bailing them out. I feel as though our government foisted this upon them.

No, what Clinton & Cuomo did was to exert pressure and provide incentives, a sort of carrot and stick. Those incentives proved too enticing to many greedy bankers and mortgage brokers. I have no sympathy for them.

I also have no sympathy for all those who purchased additional homes with the intention of flipping them for large profit. I remember seeing a report on one of the major networks where they interviewed a family who purchased a home with the intention of renting it or selling it for a very large profit. Now they're saddled with a house they can't sell and mortgage payments they can't cover with the rent they are able to collect. They wanted our sympathy because they were "investing" for the future of their children.

Cry me a freaking river.

Sherm wants us to feel sorry for him because the home he owns is worth a lot more than it was a decade ago, having appreciated greatly in value from the date of purchase even when you include money he spent on upgrades, but it's worth 10% less than it was a year ago.

He can cry me a river. He has a home, a roof over his head and a very valuable asset that has appreciated greatly over the years. He refuses to consider the notion that his home was never really "worth" what he may have been able to sell it for a year or two ago. He'd need to purchase or rent something else to live in if he had sold out.

Nobody takes the time to stop and consider what all this is doing to younger people. Hell, they don't vote anyway. Sherm's worried about his personal wealth. He isn't at all concerned that middle class Americans are now priced out of home ownership because of super inflation in the housing market and the utter failure of our economic system, both courtesy of free wheeling credit and money printed out of thin air.

No, what Clinton & Cuomo did was to exert pressure and provide incentives, a sort of carrot and stick. Those incentives proved too enticing to many greedy bankers and mortgage brokers. I have no sympathy for them.

Which would not have been possible if it wasn't for the deregulation of the 80's under Ronnie Raygun.

Perhaps if we weren't so focused on being so partisan and blaming someone, the problems could get solved.

Perhaps if we weren't so focused on being so partisan and blaming someone, the problems could get solved.

I was pointing out where the recent deregulation began. Does no one remember the S&L scandal?

In assigning blame in my long-winded post above, I made no mention of party.

I think nearly all of them are to blame. Both parties, administrations going back to Woodrow Wilson, and nearly every Senator & Representative to hold office in the past 90 years, share in the blame.

Throw the bums out if they won't fix the root causes of all these problems and continue to slap bandaids costing billions on them.

Anyone who votes for another bailout should be tossed out of office.