Big 2 loan gurantee
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Big 2 loan gurantee
by Aaron Fri Dec 19, 2008 10:07 am
GM and Chrysler Will Get $17.4 Billion in U.S. Loans to Survive
Dec. 19 (Bloomberg) -- General Motors Corp. and Chrysler LLC will get $13.4 billion in government loans to keep operating in exchange for a restructuring under a rescue plan that President George W. Bush will announce this morning.
The money will be drawn from the Troubled Asset Relief Program and the automakers will get an additional $4 billion from the fund in February, according to a statement from the Bush administration. The money would allow GM and Chrysler to keep operating until March.
Under the terms of the plan, if the companies cannot demonstrate financial viability by March 31 the loans will be called and the money must be returned, the statement said.
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Aaron- Number of posts : 9841
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Re: Big 2 loan gurantee
by sodbuster Fri Dec 19, 2008 1:02 pm
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=081219150605.tto9ush5&show_article=1
Well I wonder if they will come up with the loan guarantee for Ford?
Well I wonder if they will come up with the loan guarantee for Ford?
sodbuster- Number of posts : 1890
Location : wv
Registration date : 2008-09-05
Re: Big 2 loan gurantee
by Aaron Fri Dec 19, 2008 1:23 pm
From what I've read, they should be ok until March at least.
But all of their cheerleading for their competitors brings up an interesting question.
I thought the idea in business was that you wanted your competition to go under.
So why is Ford lobbying for them to stay afloat?
But all of their cheerleading for their competitors brings up an interesting question.
I thought the idea in business was that you wanted your competition to go under.
So why is Ford lobbying for them to stay afloat?
Aaron- Number of posts : 9841
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Re: Big 2 loan gurantee
by sodbuster Fri Dec 19, 2008 1:57 pm
Well like they said if GM goes under a lot of suppliers will be hurting.
Even Toyota was saying that a month ago.
Even Toyota was saying that a month ago.
sodbuster- Number of posts : 1890
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Re: Big 2 loan gurantee
by Aaron Fri Dec 19, 2008 2:09 pm
I get that business is down Sod. We all know that. And it's not just the automotive industry. It's all over.
And if GM goes under, that leaves more supplies for the remaining manufactures in the industry which would lower prices.
So how is that bad for Ford?
And if GM goes under, that leaves more supplies for the remaining manufactures in the industry which would lower prices.
So how is that bad for Ford?
Aaron- Number of posts : 9841
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Re: Big 2 loan gurantee
by sodbuster Fri Dec 19, 2008 2:45 pm
Well say GM is half the business for a supplier and they are barely making it now and suddenly lose half their business they will go under and not be able to supply Ford either.
That will affect the transplant car makers too.
btw here are the total sales by manufacturer.
It looks like Ford business is down less than the others, including the big foreign transplants.
http://online.wsj.com/mdc/public/page/2_3022-autosales.html
That will affect the transplant car makers too.
btw here are the total sales by manufacturer.
It looks like Ford business is down less than the others, including the big foreign transplants.
http://online.wsj.com/mdc/public/page/2_3022-autosales.html
sodbuster- Number of posts : 1890
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Re: Big 2 loan gurantee
by SamCogar Fri Dec 19, 2008 5:43 pm
sodbuster wrote:Well say GM is half the business for a supplier and they are barely making it now and suddenly lose half their business they will go under and not be able to supply Ford either.
Well Sherm, all those Suppliers started at the bottom to begin with, ..... right.
Maybe the States will buy the machine tools used by those Suppliers ....... like WV did at that Stamping Plant.
Sherm, how did the taxpayers make out on that deal?
Have they got any of their money back yet or what?
May 17, 2007 - Charleston Stamping will invest more than $35 million to refurbish the plant with new automation equipment, Wise said. That figure includes a $15 million loan approved today by the West Virginia Economic Development Authority. The modernization is expected to allow the company to create 79 jobs in its first year, 140 jobs in its second year, and as many as 550 jobs in its fourth or fifth year.
http://www.charlestonstamping.com/070517.asp
Has their 1st year ever started yet?
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SamCogar- Number of posts : 6238
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Re: Big 2 loan gurantee
by sodbuster Fri Dec 19, 2008 6:33 pm
http://online.wsj.com/mdc/public/page/2_3022-autosales.html
Well Aaron take a look at this and you will see it is not just mismanagement or labor costs of US companies compared to Foreign transplants.
Please note that both Toyota and Honda sales are both down for the year as much as the American companies.
Matter of fact they are down More than Ford.
And best as I can tell from those figures the F series pickup is still the top seller in America.
Well Aaron take a look at this and you will see it is not just mismanagement or labor costs of US companies compared to Foreign transplants.
Please note that both Toyota and Honda sales are both down for the year as much as the American companies.
Matter of fact they are down More than Ford.
And best as I can tell from those figures the F series pickup is still the top seller in America.
sodbuster- Number of posts : 1890
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Cheney excoriates Senate Republicans...
by sodbuster Sun Dec 21, 2008 5:15 pm
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28338533/
VP Dick Cheney blasted congressional republicans saying they had their chance to help solve the financial meltdown but failed to act.
"Lawmakers "had ample opportunity to deal with this issue and they failed," Cheney said. "The president had no choice but to step in."
(Although Dems technically have a Senate majority, Senate rules allow the republicans to block legislation that does not have at least 60 votes.)
Ironically, even after The Pres. recognized the need to do something, it was his own republican party that refused to co-operate.
It is really sad to see his own party forsake him this way after he finally saw the light and decided to put principle above Party.
You can just see how much this man has aged these past few weeks.
VP Dick Cheney blasted congressional republicans saying they had their chance to help solve the financial meltdown but failed to act.
"Lawmakers "had ample opportunity to deal with this issue and they failed," Cheney said. "The president had no choice but to step in."
(Although Dems technically have a Senate majority, Senate rules allow the republicans to block legislation that does not have at least 60 votes.)
Ironically, even after The Pres. recognized the need to do something, it was his own republican party that refused to co-operate.
It is really sad to see his own party forsake him this way after he finally saw the light and decided to put principle above Party.
You can just see how much this man has aged these past few weeks.
sodbuster- Number of posts : 1890
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Re: Big 2 loan gurantee
by Stephanie Mon Dec 22, 2008 2:37 am
Holy batcrap. I think I just saw Shermangeneral say that Dick Cheney is correct about something.
I think he may be turning neocon on us, people.
I think he may be turning neocon on us, people.
Stephanie- Admin
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Re: Big 2 loan gurantee
by sodbuster Mon Dec 22, 2008 4:35 am
Well I guess you have been busy baking cookies and all.
But the past couple months have been sweetness and light between me and the bush administration....
Course it's a classic case of too little too late I fear...
btw have you noticed what I said about him aging the past few weeks?
Or is it just me?
But the past couple months have been sweetness and light between me and the bush administration....
Course it's a classic case of too little too late I fear...
btw have you noticed what I said about him aging the past few weeks?
Or is it just me?
sodbuster- Number of posts : 1890
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ohio county- Moderator
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Re: Big 2 loan gurantee
by Stephanie Mon Dec 22, 2008 11:50 am
That may explain the sweetness & light.
Stephanie- Admin
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Re: Big 2 loan gurantee
by sodbuster Tue Dec 23, 2008 2:12 pm
Well Aaron I came across this column that explains a little more about how a GM bankruptcy would hurt the others too.
He seems to be real high on Mulhally and Ford in general.
http://www.ohio.com/editorial/commentary/36427719.html
He seems to be real high on Mulhally and Ford in general.
http://www.ohio.com/editorial/commentary/36427719.html
sodbuster- Number of posts : 1890
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Re: Big 2 loan gurantee
by Aaron Tue Dec 23, 2008 2:38 pm
That's a very interesting article Sod. But then I've always agreed with a great deal George Will has to say.
And one of the things I didn't consider was car dealerships that sale multiple makes and the effect that could have on Ford.
As far as the parts suppliers, yes, in the short term, it would have an effect which is why I've supported this loan. If you recall, one of my first statements was to give them the money and allow them to die a slow agonizing death instead of a quick one.
I did find something interesting in the article though. You've mentioned Carter's rescue many times as a model of government intervention and the fact that the government eventually made money on that loan.
Will, who is high on Mulhally, has a different view on the Chrysler bailout. Perhaps todays problems wouldn't be quite as severe for the auto industry had Chrysler have been allowed to fail in the 70's when they should have.
And one of the things I didn't consider was car dealerships that sale multiple makes and the effect that could have on Ford.
As far as the parts suppliers, yes, in the short term, it would have an effect which is why I've supported this loan. If you recall, one of my first statements was to give them the money and allow them to die a slow agonizing death instead of a quick one.
I did find something interesting in the article though. You've mentioned Carter's rescue many times as a model of government intervention and the fact that the government eventually made money on that loan.
Will, who is high on Mulhally, has a different view on the Chrysler bailout. Perhaps todays problems wouldn't be quite as severe for the auto industry had Chrysler have been allowed to fail in the 70's when they should have.
Total industry sales in America this year — about 10.5 million, down from 17 million in 2005 — are, on a per capita basis, the lowest since World War II. There is zero likelihood of industry sales sufficient for three U.S. companies to share them profitably with ''transplants'' — factories producing cars with foreign nameplates. A 1979 bailout enabled Chrysler to survive to be a problem today. It almost certainly will not survive.
Aaron- Number of posts : 9841
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Re: Big 2 loan gurantee
by sodbuster Tue Dec 23, 2008 3:03 pm
Well I am still rooting for the American companies.
Union and all....
And I won't be surprised if the UAW gets a toehold down south in the foreign plants too.
Union and all....
And I won't be surprised if the UAW gets a toehold down south in the foreign plants too.
sodbuster- Number of posts : 1890
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Aaron- Number of posts : 9841
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Re: Big 2 loan gurantee
by sodbuster Tue Dec 23, 2008 3:44 pm
http://www.manufacturing.net/News-Toyota-Honda-Keeping-An-Eye-On-US-Auto-Industry.aspx
Here is another interesting article why even the foreign companies dont want the American companies to fail.
So maybe they need to let their senators know.
They might have assumed the foreign companies would want our American companies to shut down...
Here is another interesting article why even the foreign companies dont want the American companies to fail.
So maybe they need to let their senators know.
They might have assumed the foreign companies would want our American companies to shut down...
sodbuster- Number of posts : 1890
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Aaron- Number of posts : 9841
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Re: Big 2 loan gurantee
by Aaron Tue Dec 23, 2008 3:53 pm
I think one of the long term effects of this recession, after Chrysler is devoured into a retooled GM and the Big 2 compete with other American manufactured automobiles, will be the parts suppliers becoming diversified.
Aaron- Number of posts : 9841
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