Another Year

Welp, another year has come and gone!!!! As people waddle blindly into this New Year, I wonder how many have give any thought to 2008 and attempted to learn anything from it.

The year 2008 will go down in my opinion as the year we become fully dependant. In the cycle of a democracy tyranny, leads to great faith, faith leads to liberty, liberty to abundance, abundance to apathy, and apathy to dependance. Of course dependance leads back to tyranny. 2008 will be the year that we gave up completely our individualism for the sake of being dependant. I need only point to the bailoout of the financal markets, the giving up of our liberties for the sake of security, and the auto industry coming hat in hand begging for money to iilstrate the point.

I count myself luck in that I have lived through a time of liberty and abundance, I have seen apathy come, and I have seen apathy turn to dependance. I have to ask however, what happened to such things as individual responsibility. Have we become so weak and so pathatic that we can't, no won't stand on our own two feet and accept the rewards and consequences of our actions? I believe that a majoroity of the people in this nation have become so brainwashed by the political system that they have gleefully given up every attribute that made this nation once great.

People no longer have a desire for the truth. Instead they they would rather be lied to so long as the lie supports the station they feel they are owed. In the process the citizens of this once great nation are making themselves more the servent of a corrupt government. The founders beleived that government got and retained its power fromt he people. Today, and 2008 will go down as that year that proves this, what the founders believed has been reversed. People think that they obtain their wellbeing and liberty from government. Instead of government getting its power from the people, the people get thier existance from government.

The really ad part is that our government has not had to use force to accomplish their power grab. It has been given to them willfully by the very people who at one time held the reigns of power, the citizens themselves. It can observed that a great republic does is not mourned when it dies. It dies to the sound of applause and cheering. All one has to do to confirm this very fact is watch the television and observe how people react.

One can only pray the 2009 sees the pendullem swing the other direction. Well it, is the question. OUr generation nees to do some serious soul searching. We allowed this mess by not reigning in the power we gave the popiticians. We owe it tot he next generation to straithen up and act like grown adults instead of over indulged children.

Cato

"The law has been used to destroy its own objective: It has been applied to annihilating the justice that it was supposed to maintain; to limiting and destroying rights which its real purpose was to respect. The law has placed the collective force at the disposal of the unscrupulous who wish, without risk, to exploit the person, liberty, and property of others. It has converted plunder into a right, in order to protect plunder. And it has converted lawful defense into a crime, in order to punish lawful defense."
-- Frederick Bastiat

"What I find most repulsive in America is not the extreme freedom reigning there, but the shortage of guarantees against tyranny...... It may, however, be foreseen even now, that when the Americans lose their republican institutions, they will speedily arrive at a despotic Government, without a long interval of limited monarchy."
-- Alexis Charles Clerel de Tocqueville - Democracy in America (1835)

"Loss of freedom seldom happens overnight. Oppression doesn't stand on the doorstep with toothbrush moustache and swastika armband -- it creeps up insidiously... step by step, and all of a sudden the unfortunate citizen realizes that it is gone."
-- Baron Lane

I see no way of stopping it, personally.

Some things that get broken can't be fixed.

Of course, Socrates had many similar complaints about Athens...

The way to stop it would be for our government to return to the original intent of our founding fathers and the constitution.

They are not going to but that is the only way to stop our return to tyranny.

TerryRC wrote:"
I see no way of stopping it, personally.

Some things that get broken can't be fixed.

Of course, Socrates had many similar complaints about Athens...

No nation or power is permanent. The United States will eventually fall and be replaced by another power. That's the way of history. In some respects it already has aready fell. We are not the nation the founders fought for. Our liberties have been eroded one by one until they don't exist anymore. The US Consitution is a pretty peice of paper that means nothing to most people and most of our elected leaders.

However, being somwhat the optimist I am, there is always hope. I see people getting fedup witht he status quo. I do think the next few years will be indeed interesting.

I would like to say I agree with you but once you give a central government as much power as we've given ours, it's hard to reign them in. Patrick Henry said as much during the time of the constitution. It's only took ~230 years but it seems he was right.

Well I still have great faith in God and Country.

We have been through much more perilous times than these.

Have you read The Greatest Generation, by Tom Brokaw?

They survived an even worse economic hardship than we are likely to see, and an even greater international threat as well.

And went on to make great strides toward equality for all Americans and otherwise fulfilling the great expectations of freedom loving people everywhere.

The so-called "Greatest Generation" wasn't faced with tyranny by its own government. They had civil liberties and their freedoms were viewed as sacred by all, including the courts.

We aren't so fortunate.

The catch is sodbouster, as Stephanie stated, the attacks and dangers came from without, not within. We are now in a time when our greatest danger comes from the greed and ignorance of our own citizens. The only difference between a black welfare mommy and the CEO of GM, Crysler, or Ford is the cost of their clothing. Bush and his ilk along with a congress guided by the polls instead of intelligence and wisdom has done more harm to this nation than Osama bin Laden could have ever hoped to have done.

Well said, Cato!

sodbuster wrote:Well I still have great faith in God and Country.

We have been through much more perilous times than these.

Have you read The Greatest Generation, by Tom Brokaw?

They survived an even worse economic hardship than we are likely to see, and an even greater international threat as well.

And went on to make great strides toward equality for all Americans and otherwise fulfilling the great expectations of freedom loving people everywhere.

And left us with our current unfunded liabilities of somewhere in the neighborhood of $60,000,000,000,000.00 plus the notion that the only way out of a problem is to throw money at it.

Thanks for that.

Well I predict the best is yet to come...

For who? Were going to be in this economic downturn for at least another 3 years. By the time it starts getting better, how much is our national debt going to be, $20 trillion dollars?

At least with the great depression and FDR's New Deal programs that extended the depression, the government paid for the bulk of them as they went along.

Now, all we're doing is printing money. By the time the ecomony comes around people have disposable income to acutually afford spending it, hyper inflation will increase interst rates to 1980 levels of 20+%.

sodbuster wrote:Well I predict the best is yet to come...

Aaron wrote:For who?

Precisely, Aaron. That was going to be my question to Sodbuster, too.

Best for the holders of the national debt, maybe.

Sobuster is like a good majority of people. They believe deep in their hearts that if their particular party comes to power then things will be peachy. That isn't the case and I think really deep down most everyone knows it isn't the case. They just won't admit it.

I pray on my knees daily that President elect Obama will govern well. What will happen over the next few years not one us can predict. However, based on what he has said and what we see within congress about the best we can truthfully hope for is the Status quo. I have to agree with Mr Warren, who will deliever the invocation, I don't think President elect Obama means the nation intentional harm. I do think his mindset and views have the potential of being very disasterous to what is left of our liberty and economic security.

However, that being said, I think just like we saw on the republican side, politicans are two things. First the driven by the polls and they will do whatever they have to to keep their poll numbers up, including making some really disasterous choices. No Child Left Behind, the drug War, the War on Terror, the Farm Bill, are just a few of many examples. Additionally they have to create groups to ridcule and direct people's hate toward. That is why we have wealth envy amongst other things.

Secondly, politicans on both sides of the isle are like most Americans, they have never really had to fight for their liberty, thus it doesn't have the value it did just 50 or 60 years ago. This means that what have running for office today are big government, government can solve all types, without any regard for the damage they are doing. The republicans are that way as are the democrats.

Aaron correctly observed that once entrenched this type of thinking is hard to change, if it can be changed at all.

Well I promise to not ridicule you guys 20 years from now when Old Glory flies high and proud as ever.

There will always be critics and naysayers.

But the true believers in the American way will prevail.

20 years is the LEAST amount of time it will take for us to recovery from this current government intervention.

By 2029, the DOW will might be approaching 14,000 again.

Thanks in advance.

With regard to the Greatest Generation, may I say that I always thought people from that generation had a certain dignity and self-reliance? May I also say that the Greatest Generation granted themselves some of the fattest bonuses and perks ever?

ohio county wrote:With regard to the Greatest Generation, may I say that I always thought people from that generation had a certain dignity and self-reliance? May I also say that the Greatest Generation granted themselves some of the fattest bonuses and perks ever?

Well OC the reason I pointed them out was that everyone was having a pity party and lamenting how we can never get out of this mess.

So I just wanted to remind them that greater obstacles than these have been overcame by our forbearers.

God has blessed our people and country with great gifts and bountiful resources.

Seems to me the big thing lacking is to inspire the will of our current crop of naysayers and they will be surprised what they can accomplish in this great land of opportunity.

I could accomplish a hell of a lot more if I had the extra 20 to 30% of my pay the government takes to pay for their socialist programs.

sodbuster wrote:

ohio county wrote:With regard to the Greatest Generation, may I say that I always thought people from that generation had a certain dignity and self-reliance? May I also say that the Greatest Generation granted themselves some of the fattest bonuses and perks ever?

Well OC the reason I pointed them out was that everyone was having a pity party and lamenting how we can never get out of this mess.

So I just wanted to remind them that greater obstacles than these have been overcame by our forbearers.

God has blessed our people and country with great gifts and bountiful resources.

Seems to me the big thing lacking is to inspire the will of our current crop of naysayers and they will be surprised what they can accomplish in this great land of opportunity.

Sod,

I'm no naysayer. I'm a student of economics, history, and government. Nations come and nations go. That is the way of things. It has been through out history and I am certain we aren't going to stop it. Human nature being what it is, mankind does seem to ever use history to learn, thus every nation, every empire, and every monarachy is subject to the cycle, rise, greatness, decline, and fall adn then the cycle will start again. Maybe not with the same people, but somewhere a nation will rise to prominance.

The United States as the consitutional republic our founders created, began its decline 80 some years after its conception, when Abraham Lincoln took the nation to war to preserve the union. I know, that many think that the Civil War was fought to free the slaves. If you believe that, you had better study your history a little bit. When I say study, I mean study, not look it up on Wikipedia. anyways, Abraham Lincoln set the stage for the corruption of the US Constitution by denying the south the very rights it was entitled in the 10th Amendment. Additionally Licoln suppended Habis Corpus, thus jailing people without cause.

From there the US Constiution has been eroded and our consituitonal republic erdoed to where we are no more the nation our founders worked so hard to produce. For example, in the early 1900, 1903 I think, the popular election of senators was added to the US Constituion. until that time senators were appointed by the state legislatures. What was created was two houses of elected politicans who had to satisfy the public. As originally established the House had to satisfy the public and the senate didn't. This resulted in issues be subject to checks and balances by one house not subject to public pressure. One house subject to public and pressure and one not was a very good thing. Bills could be considered on their true merit, thus not much got passed.

Another example is found in Woodrow Wilson's Sedition Act. He took the US to war in Europe during WW1. He and congress made it illegal to critize the Government for doing so. Still andother example and probably the nail in the coffin of the Consitutional republic was FDR's "new Deal" The US Supreme Court ruled the precepts of the New Deal was Unconsituitonal. It was until FDR threatened to expand the court and place people ont he court of his choosing that the court found the New Deal constitutional. The NEw Deal has lead this nation down a sinister path. A wise man once said that a democracy can only stand until the public realizes they can vote themselves entitlements fromt he treasury by whom they put in office. We are there today.

Over the past 25 years or so most all of our rights have been attacked. The limitations of the US Constiutiton on government have been tossed aside. The result is we as a nation are dying. We are going the way of Rome, Britian, France, Greece, Assyria, and coutless other great pwoers.

Well I recognize that is your all's opinion Willie.

I just disagree.

We have always had naysayers, since the beginning of the republic and even before.

I still believe in the concepts of individual liberty andjustice for all.

I do not dislike you guys, I just disagree.

I still believe the best is yet to come.

Well If you think it's all over then I guess just go hunker in a corner somewhere and cover your head I guess.

We will let you know when the problem is past.

The only one covering their head here is you Sodbuster. You refuse to acknowledge the severity of the problems our country faces and what little you do concede to, you ingore history and the massive failures government intervention has created when they have attempted to respond to similar problems.

Barrack Obama's economic team admitted that increasing taxes have a large negative effect on investmentso they are giving a tax break not only to individuals but to businesses as well. They also acknowledge that history does not show that big government spending is essential to ending recessions or ensuring strong recoveries, which we KNOW to be true.

The only way to end this downturn is to put money back into the hands of consumbers and allow them jump start the economy. That is the short term effect. Long term, we need to reduce the size of government, eliminate fraud, waste and mismanagement and allow out capitalist system to work as it is supposed to.

Yet you say it is those who see the truth and acknowledge it for what it is as those burying their head in the sand.

Please.

Aw, let him feel all warm and runny for a while. It may be months before the parameters of the corruption is known...