Question for our Libertarian fiends:

IF you believe that the Zionists should give back the Land of Israel to the philistine interlopers, do you also believe that European invaders should give back USA to the Native Americans?

I think you got it bass ackwards Keli.

For the example to be similar, the UN would have had to come in, take the US back from the white man and give it to the Indians, give them a world class military and let them rule as a minority with a heavy hand with infinite financial support and answer to no one for their decisions.

Aaron wrote:I think you got it bass ackwards Keli.

For the example to be similar, the UN would have had to come in, take the US back from the white man and give it to the Indians, give them a world class military and let them rule as a minority with a heavy hand with infinite financial support and answer to no one for their decisions.

So, this Libertarian principle would apply only to postmodern times? (Pakistan was created at the same time and by the same UN resolution as Israel's. The UN made one Jewish country and one Muslim country(East AND West Pakistan)--equal time? Do you also believe that Pakistan should be given back to India?)

You're still not comparing apples to apples Keli. Pakistan and it's Muslim population was separated from India and it's Hindu population and both were given independence from the British Empire in 1947.

It's not like you had the UN come in and take a portion of India from Hindu's and give that land to Muslims who had been displaced over a 1500 years ago. For the most part, the Muslim population was already occupying the area that became Pakistan.

Apples to oranges but it was a nice try.

Aaron wrote:You're still not comparing apples to apples Keli. Pakistan and it's Muslim population was separated from India and it's Hindu population and both were given independence from the British Empire in 1947.

It's not like you had the UN come in and take a portion of India from Hindu's and give that land to Muslims who had been displaced over a 1500 years ago. For the most part, the Muslim population was already occupying the area that became Pakistan.

Apples to oranges but it was a nice try.

Don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining! They are exactly the same--even formed by the same resolution in a half-slow attempt to placate Fascist-Islamics. Just substitute Israel, Palestine and Jordan in your formula. Do all Libertarians obfuscate the issues?

I suppose you're labeling me a "libertarian". Whatever.

I don't see why "we" should do anything, other than stop arming and funding all of these violent, and aggressive people. Israel wants to commit war crimes such as genocide I don't agree with it. I oppose it, but that isn't my battle to fight. It isn't our war to arm and fund either.

I say cut them loose. Without US aid and support they will stop committing these atrocities pdq because if the US pulls the plug and tells them they are on their own, they will be forced to confront not just the Palestinians and Hamas, but the Lebanese and the Syrians and the Iranians and Hezbollah etc as well.

Since the Hindus were there in Pakistan (they called it "Kashmir") before Mohammad was ever born, then to where should the Islamic Pakistanis be deported?

Is Antisemitism* a plank of the Libertarian platform? Or, is it just a WV corollary to that platform?

*I believe that Libertarians hide its Antisemitism behind the term "Anti-Zionism."

Sticks and stones, Reverend.

I don't care what you call me. Why would a person who hates the Jews want to urge Israeli Jews to move to America?

I oppose Zionism. There are Jews who oppose Zionism too. You, on the other hand, just hate all Muslims and wish death and destruction upon their nations and their people. I'm sure your god would be proud.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090101/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_israel_palestinians

Up to 4 wives?

In the same house?

No wonder they are so grumpy and always looking for trouble or strapping on a body bomb.

(just kidding ok, I know some Christians, i.e. Mormons etc., believe in that too. But still...)

Keli wrote:

Aaron wrote:You're still not comparing apples to apples Keli. Pakistan and it's Muslim population was separated from India and it's Hindu population and both were given independence from the British Empire in 1947.

It's not like you had the UN come in and take a portion of India from Hindu's and give that land to Muslims who had been displaced over a 1500 years ago. For the most part, the Muslim population was already occupying the area that became Pakistan.

Apples to oranges but it was a nice try.

Don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining! They are exactly the same--even formed by the same resolution in a half-slow attempt to placate Fascist-Islamics. Just substitute Israel, Palestine and Jordan in your formula. Do all Libertarians obfuscate the issues?

Pre-World War 1, the population of Jewish people in what is now Israel was less then 100,000 people. Beginning with the British conquest of Palestine during World War 1 and the establishment of the British mandate and the Balfour Declaration, immigration (it's called Aliyah) began to rise.

From 1919 to 1948, ~488,000 Jews immigrated to Israel. ~377,000 of them, over 78% came from Europe.

From 1948 to 1951, almost 700,000 immigrated with about half coming from Europe.

The 50’s saw another 300,000 immigrate, the 60’s 425,000, the 70’s 270,000, the 80’s 150,000, the 90’s saw 950,000 and this decade another 120,000 has emigrated to Israel.

Of the 2.9 million people who have immigrated to Israel since 1948, 3 out of 4 have come from Europe. Another 20% came from Asia, mostly Jews living in middle eastern Arab countries.

So where were all these Muslims that made up Pakistan trucked in from.

Like I said, apples to oranges Terry and it's not even close.

The only one obfuscating anything is you but then when confusion is all you have, I guess that’s what you go with, huh!!!

Keli wrote:IF you believe that the Zionists should give back the Land of Israel to the philistine interlopers, do you also believe that European invaders should give back USA to the Native Americans?

I like to believe I have a lot of libertarian values, so here is what I think. I don't give a tinkers damn about what Israel and Palestine do. If they are so stupid as to kill each other so be it. What I do care about is whether or not we become involved in any and the fact that we send both sides foreign aid. First, we need to stay out of the conflict and let Israel adn Hamas settle their differences, violently if necessary. We shouldn't even take the time to broker a peace cease fire.

Secondly, it goes against all I believe and hold dear that my tax dollars go to either Israel or the Palestinians. If I could work my will neither nation would get a cent from this country. I wonder how long either party would continue fighting if they had to earn a living instead of the US taxpayer providing it for them. This isn't to mention the fact the foreign aid is grossly unconstitutional.

Third, and finally, many within our goveernment think the so called nation of Israel is God's chosen people and we are thus required to support them. That is one the biggest lies that has ever been perpretrated. It it a testament to politician's ignorance that they would believe something this ignorant.

Aaron wrote:

Keli wrote:

Aaron wrote:You're still not comparing apples to apples Keli. Pakistan and it's Muslim population was separated from India and it's Hindu population and both were given independence from the British Empire in 1947.

It's not like you had the UN come in and take a portion of India from Hindu's and give that land to Muslims who had been displaced over a 1500 years ago. For the most part, the Muslim population was already occupying the area that became Pakistan.

Apples to oranges but it was a nice try.

Don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining! They are exactly the same--even formed by the same resolution in a half-slow attempt to placate Fascist-Islamics. Just substitute Israel, Palestine and Jordan in your formula. Do all Libertarians obfuscate the issues?

Pre-World War 1, the population of Jewish people in what is now Israel was less then 100,000 people. Beginning with the British conquest of Palestine during World War 1 and the establishment of the British mandate and the Balfour Declaration, immigration (it's called Aliyah) began to rise.

From 1919 to 1948, ~488,000 Jews immigrated to Israel. ~377,000 of them, over 78% came from Europe.

From 1948 to 1951, almost 700,000 immigrated with about half coming from Europe.

The 50’s saw another 300,000 immigrate, the 60’s 425,000, the 70’s 270,000, the 80’s 150,000, the 90’s saw 950,000 and this decade another 120,000 has emigrated to Israel.

Of the 2.9 million people who have immigrated to Israel since 1948, 3 out of 4 have come from Europe. Another 20% came from Asia, mostly Jews living in middle eastern Arab countries.

So where were all these Muslims that made up Pakistan trucked in from.

Like I said, apples to oranges Terry and it's not even close.

The only one obfuscating anything is you but then when confusion is all you have, I guess that’s what you go with, huh!!!

The UN established Palestine as a "Jewish Homeland." Do you think that might be why Jews went there? The same UN declared that the Indian province of Kashmir was now a Muslim country--Pakistan. How do you think that that has affected the Hindu population of Kashmir? Maybe the Kashmir Hindus shoudl just up and move to India--or convert to Islam?

Exactly TH. The UN mandated that land that was occupied by Palestinians, and had been for 1500 years, was no longer theirs and gave it to their distant brothers who had not occupied the land for 1500 years, the Jewish people and said it was now their home.

Now show me how the “exact” same thing happened in Pakistan. I'm still waiting for you to show me where all the Muslims were trucked in from.

Like I said, apples and oranges.

http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Articles/Blessing_the_Jews/blessing_the_jews.html

Just as I believe Old Glory will stand the test of time, so too will Israel.

God's Promise is forever.

He will no more abandon Israel than he will forsake His Church.

God promised to restore the nation of Israel in the end times, and he has done so.

We are now called to "comfort God's People" and to help regather the remnants to their original homeland. Isaiah 49

"...and I will feed them that oppress thee with their own flesh..

...and all will know that I am thy Saviour and Redeemer. the mighty one of Jacob."

That rant has no place in our foreign policy Sod.

None.

Aaron wrote:That rant has no place in our foreign policy Sod.

None.

Nothing could be more true, Aaron.

When Aaron is right, he's dead on. Bravo, Aaron.

That rant has no place in our foreign policy Sod.

Religious-based rants should have no place in our government, our policies or our laws - period.

TerryRC wrote:That rant has no place in our foreign policy Sod.

Religious-based rants should have no place in our government, our policies or our laws - period.

Are you ranting as a winter solstice observer?

Nope, an American citizen.

Since when is reference to the Christian Bible a "religious rant"?

My reference above to the promised land was merely to point out what was foretold by the ancient Hebrew prophets and confirmed by the new Testament apostles.

This is a free country, so you can do with it what you will.

But history has not and will not be kind to the oppressors of Israel.

So it's your contention that the United States should throw money and support at Israel because of ancient biblical text, which is in clear violation of the constitution.

Besides, is the Israel of your rant a country or is it God's people, regardless of where they live?

Aaron wrote:So it's your contention that the United States should throw money and support at Israel because of ancient biblical text, which is in clear violation of the constitution.

Besides, is the Israel of your rant a country or is it God's people, regardless of where they live?

Actually the bible doesn't support that belief that Israel is God's chosen today. That is a falacy perpertrated by many of the so called religious experts of today. In fact, the pre millinial view didn't come into existance until approximately 100 years ago. Sodbuster is like a majority of religious folks, they believe what they are told and fail miserbly are seeing is what is said is so or not.

Cato wrote:

Aaron wrote:So it's your contention that the United States should throw money and support at Israel because of ancient biblical text, which is in clear violation of the constitution.

Besides, is the Israel of your rant a country or is it God's people, regardless of where they live?

Actually the bible doesn't support that belief that Israel is God's chosen today. That is a falacy perpertrated by many of the so called religious experts of today. In fact, the pre millinial view didn't come into existance until approximately 100 years ago. Sodbuster is like a majority of religious folks, they believe what they are told and fail miserbly are seeing is what is said is so or not.

Do the winter solstice folks have Scriptures to back up your claim that God has gone back on His promise to Abraham, Isacc and Jacob? (Are you a Solticist, Cato?)