Truce declared in War on Science

Aaron wrote:Yeah, I'll take your bet Ziggy but it's not gambling for me because I know you're dead wrong.

Due to emission requirements and the number of times emissions are recycled throuhg the engine, Keresone will severly damage a 2007 engine up.

And if they ever design a working model that will meet the emission standards for the 2010 engine, it will likely lock that engine up.

Like I said, this ain't the 70's and you don't know what you're talking about.

Well Aaron, tell that to Sam. He is the one who said that "smart truckers" put kerosene in their diesel fuel tanks.

So if "smart truckers" like you really don't do it, then it is Sam, not Ziggy, who does not know what he is talking about.

Aaron wrote:Yeah, I'll take your bet Ziggy but it's not gambling for me because I know you're dead wrong.

Due to emission requirements and the number of times emissions are recycled throuhg the engine, Keresone will severly damage a 2007 engine up.

And if they ever design a working model that will meet the emission standards for the 2010 engine, it will likely lock that engine up.

Like I said, this ain't the 70's and you don't know what you're talking about.

Not according to Caterpillar and the EPA- as long as the sulphur content is below 15 PPM.

FUEL
Model year 2007 and newer Caterpillar onhighway
diesel engines require the use of ULSD
fuel in order to meet the United States (U.S.)
Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) 2007
emissions regulations for on-highway diesel
engines. Failure to use ULSD in these engines is
punishable with civil penalties.
Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel (ULSD) fuel will
have £ 15 ppm (0.0015%) sulfur using the
ASTM D5453, ASTM D2622, or DIN 51400
test methods.

http://ohe.cat.com/cda/files/378797/7/LEHT3462-07%20HR%20P1.pdf

And not according to the Clean Diesel Fuel Alliance (CDFA)

http://www.clean-diesel.org/compliance.html

And not according to Page one of this document, to which one is directed by both Caterpillar and CDFA:

http://www.clean-diesel.org/pdf/ULSDWinterization.pdf

Q. Are refiners required to produce No. 1 diesel (kerosene) at ultra low sulfur levels?

A. The 80% production/import requirement applies to all highway diesel fuel (No. 1 plus No. 2). EPA requirements do not stipulate the percentages of No. 1 and No. 2 that must be produced or imported. Refiners are producing Ultra Low Sulfur Kerosene (ULSK) for wintertime blending. Consumers are advised to communicate with their fuel suppliers about acquiring ULSK before winter begins. According to the EIA, since the ULSD production requirement took effect in June 2006, both overall kerosene production and stocks are down compared to prior years. EIA does not report kerosene production or inventory segregated by sulfur level so it is not possible to determine the extent to which ULSK is available. Last winter, diesel additives were more heavily relied upon to improve the cold weather performance of ULSD in certain areas. To winterize ULSD, it is necessary to add ULSK, cold flow improvers, or a combination of both. Market participants at every level will need to continue to ensure that the cold flow improvers that are used are appropriate for the base fuel’s characteristics, as the diesel fuel market has routinely done in the past.
EPA Winterization Standards Letter 11-30-07

http://www.clean-diesel.org/faqs.html

Sam didn't say anything to me about kerosene, Ziggy did. It is Ziggy's money that I would be taking.

Aaron wrote:Sam didn't say anything to me about kerosene, Ziggy did. It is Ziggy's money that I would be taking.

No, you are wrong, again. It was Sam who first mentioned kerosene, in the last post on this page: https://gazzfriends.forumotion.com/science-f14/truce-declared-in-war-on-science-t2535.htm

SamCogar wrote:

ziggy wrote:That- keeping diesel engines running 24 hours a day- has been a common practice for as long as there have been diesel engines, in extreme cold weather conditions.

YUP, in extreme cold weather conditions that persist for long periods of time, ..... like all winter long.

But the smart truck drivers didn't buy Texaco fuel in the winter time and/or during short periods of extreme cold weather conditions, ..... they just added a gallon or two of pure kerosene to their fuel tanks.

Either way, it is obvious that the engine manufacturers, the diesel fuel industry, and the US EPA condone and / or recommend the addition of kerosene to diesel fuel as a wintertime clouding and jelling preventive measure. So you don't collect from either Sam nor Ziggy on this one. You lost the bet. I take cash, or, since it is you, I'll even take a check.

Well is there consensus that monitoring of volcanoes is a legitimate government function?

Earthquakes are more of a danger in the US than are volcanoes.

If the Yellowstone Caldera "pops its cork" ...... monotoring equipment will not save any lives. Even if ya had a month's notice it was going to happen.

.

Well is there consensus that monitoring of volcanoes is a legitimate government function?

Yes. Can we also agree that volcano monitoring does not stimulate the economy?

Well OC according to my posted source above it does.

When you install newer monitoring equipment and hire scientists to interpret the data that is jobs.

Plus the volcano monitoring was part of a larger component dealing with disasters etc.

"Ultimately most of this creates jobs or saves jobs that would have been lost" to recent budget shortfalls Eichelberger told LiveScience."

How many jobs did the $140 million buy? Don't bother to answer. Just post whatever you want.

I think the formula they use is approx. 18,000 jobs per billion dollars.

So I figure using that formula approx 2,000 more or less.

Well here is where $380 million cost 215 job directly, ….. and probably another 400 indirect jobs.

McClendon apparently lost his faith in May 2008 when the West Virginia Supreme Court, 5-0, refused to hear Chesapeake's appeal of the Roane County verdict. The company cited the decision when it announced it was scrapping its plans to build a regional headquarters.

In November Chesapeake and NiSource settled the Tawney case for $380 million. Of that amount, landowners will receive just over $253 million and lawyers will get more than $126 million.

Since the Lawyers got 50% of that money, ..... maybe they will create 150 or 200 new jobs.



.

http://www.wvbusinesslitigationblog.com/2008/04/articles/litigation/chesapeake-energy-ceo-is-sued-over-sale-of-nba-franchise/b

This guy has created controversy wherever he goes.

I wouldnt put too much stock in the notion that they ever intended to locate here.

http://www.pagaslease.com/forum/index.php?topic=2193.0

I wouldnt put too much stock in the notion that they ever intended to locate here.

Well then they sure wasted several MILLION $$ building a new big building overlooking I-79 at Jane Lew.



.

Well I noticed that for some reason the link about the NBA franchise does not work so will post the gist of it...

"Aubrey McClendon is the CEO of Oklahoma City-based Chesapeake Energy Company, which was hit with a verdict for $404 million last year when a jury determined that it had systematically and deliberately underpaid natural gas well owners in violation of their leases by withholding production costs from the royalties paid to them.

But what is more relevant here is that McClendon is also a member of The Professional Basketball Club, LLC, which purchased the NBA’s Seattle SuperSonics and the WNBA’s Seattle Storm from Starbucks founder and CEO Howard Schultz in 2006. Last week, the NBA Board of Governors approved the Sonics' move from Seattle to Oklahoma City in time for the 2010 season, if not sooner.


The team's move did not sit well with Schultz, who, in his capacity as the sole member of Canarsie Holdings, LLC, filed a derivative lawsuit in federal court on behalf of The Basketball Club of Seattle, LLC, which formerly owned the teams. Schultz’s claim is that McClendon’s group always intended to move the Sonics franchise to Oklahoma City even as they promised to keep the team in Seattle. The Basketball Club of Seattle, LLC v. The Professional Basketball Club, LLC, (W. D. Wash., April 22, 2008).

The introduction to Schultz’s complaint explains that

In early 2006, when The Basketball Club of Seattle (“BCOS”) offered the Seattle SuperSonics for sale, it was critical to BCOS that any potential buyer be committed to keeping the team in Seattle. Defendant, a group of Oklahoma City businessmen, knew that BCOS would only sell it the team if defendant persuaded BCOS that it wanted to keep the Sonics in Seattle. For that reason, the Oklahoma City group told BCOS at the time it purchased the team that “it is our desire to have the Sonics and the Storm continue their existence in the Greater Seattle Area and it is not our intention to move or relocate the team.” That statement was false from the moment it was made. The Oklahoma City group’s true intention, as later described candidly by one of its principal owners, was to move the team to Oklahoma City at the earliest possible time: “We didn’t buy the team to keep it in Seattle, we hoped to come here [to Oklahoma City].”

Defendant fraudulently induced BCOS to sell the Sonics to it, and actively concealed that deception. These Oklahoma City businessmen wanted a team that would play in Oklahoma City – not in Seattle. They were willing to lie, and did lie, to complete the deal. Under these circumstances, principles of law and equity do not permit defendant to continue to own property it fraudulently obtained.
The principal owner referred to above was McClendon, who was fined $250,000 by NBA Commissioner David Stern for making that statement (because it was contrary to Stern's stated hope of keeping the Sonics in Seattle).

The complaint seeks various relief, including:

a declaratory judgment that the purchase agreement was induced by fraud and therefore is voidable at BCOS’ option;
the imposition of a constructive trust from which McClendon’s group “can be ordered to convey the Sonics to an honest buyer who desires to keep the Sonics in Seattle;”
the appointment of a receiver to manage the assets at issue in the litigation for the benefit of the constructive trust;
an accounting of the Sonics’ financial condition;
a preliminary injunction that prohibits McClendon’s group from taking any action that would compromise the Sonics’ value or interfere with the court’s ability to render the relief sought by BCOS; and
attorney’s fees and costs.
For more information, here is The Seattle Times' story, which has links to various documents, including some e-mails that allegedly show the McClendon group's intent to move the team, and earlier coverage of the sale."[/b]

Oh, so you extrapolate. The man says 18,000 jobs per billion dollars of taxpayer contribution so $140 million is 2,000 jobs. Eichelberger said that. Similarly, Clinton said he did not have sex with that woman...Ms Lewinsky.

Mr. Eichelberger also said most of the money was going to upgrade instruments. I don't think that takes a lot of new hires. I wouldn't accept volcano monitoring as job creation or economic stimulus without regard to what Mr. Eichelberger said.

Well obviously I don't know for sure.

I told you how the # was figured.

Best I can do.

sodbuster wrote: Well I noticed that for some reason the link about the NBA franchise does not work so will post the gist of it...

"Aubrey McClendon is the CEO of Oklahoma City-based Chesapeake Energy Company, which was hit with a verdict for $404 million last year when a jury determined that it had systematically and deliberately underpaid natural gas well owners in violation of their leases by withholding production costs from the royalties paid to them.

And that is basically a downright lie ....... which as usual you are quite noted for posting such when it serves your purpose.

Any particular reason you're hitting so hard on McClendon Sodbuster?

Well, McClendon has been hitting pretty hard against West Virginia for years now. Sodbuster is pointing out that McClendon is not the model of moral perfection that he apparently expects others to be.

McClendon, who, when bitching to the Governor about the Roane County verdict as soon as it came down, couldn't even get straight the name of the WV county where the Tawney verdict came down.

McClendon's company bought assets of another company, Columbia / Ni-Source, that had been screwing West Virginians out of their legitimate royalties. Along with that purchase came that company's debt to royalty owners. If McClendon's company didn't take into consideration the cost of that liability when he bought Columbia, then he's not the smart dude he'd have us think. What goes around comes around.

ziggy wrote:Well, McClendon has been hitting pretty hard against West Virginia for years now.

How many years, Zigster baby, ....... how many years.

.

SamCogar wrote:

ziggy wrote:Well, McClendon has been hitting pretty hard against West Virginia for years now.

How many years, Zigster baby, ....... how many years.

.

Since at least January, 2007.

Do you always answer for others Ziggy or is it just with people like me who put you in your place so much?

Well I was gone for awhile.

Aaron wrote:Do you always answer for others Ziggy or is it just with people like me who put you in your place so much?

I will participate here when I damn well please, and how I please- unless the moderators or administrator advise me otherwise. .