Would God approve mtr?

http://wvablue.com/

Senator Hunter introduced this.

What say you board members.?

Then why did God put the coal so far underground?

Well Aaron in this instance I think it would be better if it was further underground instead of so near the surface.

But in any event He/She gave us good brains to figure a way to get it out without destroying WV in the process.

shermangeneral wrote:Well Aaron in this instance I think it would be better if it was further underground instead of so near the surgace.

But in any event He/She gave us good brains to figure a way to get it out without destroying WV in the process.

Contrary to your belief Sherm, God in not a liberal or a democrat. He is the Great I AM and I hardly think how we get coal out of a mountain is more important to the GREAT I AM then how we treat our fellow man.

Well Aaron I agree that the way we treat our fellowman is near paramount.

Indeed according to scripture it is the second greatest Commandment.

However that does not negate the fact he has commissioned mankind with stewardship over His/Her Creation. And indeed given us dominion and the wherewithal to be faithful and true in the discharge of same.

You ever been to a restored mountaintop site? Who says we're not?

I was watching a show on Discovery the other night Sherm that showed what would happen to earth were man suddenly removed. It was very fascinating.

One of the topics was how confined and restricted the Grizzly bear has become because of paved roads. Seems they don't like to cross paved roads so they don't roam near what they used to and it went on to detail how that one act has created enormous problems with the eco system in the American west.

The show detailed many, many ways that humas are hurting earth and how it would be changed if many were gone.

The premesis of your thread is the damage man is doing to this planet, which goes in line with that show. I'll ask you the same question that I in response to that show.

If God didn't want man to do any harm to earth, why did he put us here?

Well Aaron you raise a good point.

Many species are isolated and their gene pool limited when roads are built through wilderness areas.

That is one good argument for maintaining some areas of true wilderness for or progeny.

And there is the idea that we should set aside "wilderness corridors" to join up with other wilderness areas as well.

You are not the first to ponder the question whether God regretted the Creation of mankind.

Indeed it is dealt with very early on in the Scriptures in Genesis Chapter 6.

It repented God that he had created Man.

But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord.

Etc.

shermangeneral wrote:You are not the first to ponder the question whether God regretted the Creation of mankind.

I never said that. Hell, I never implied that. I think God put us here AT THE TOP of the food chain for a reason and to keep some dirt out of a strem that only flows a few months out of the year ain't it.

I don't believe Mother Earth is as fragile as some libs want to make it out to be either. I don't see a damn thing wrong with mountaintop removal so long as the property is reclaimed properly. It's sure as hell isn't as dangerous to humans or the environment as digging miles and miles of underground manmade caves, which are left open to fill with water and do how much damage years down the road?

So you've proven your against mountain top removal. Would you rather go underground and get it, endangering employees and causing as much of not more environmental damage or do you just want to see coal productions in WV stopped all together???

"...I think God put us here AT THE TOP of the food chain for a reason and to keep some dirt out of a strem that only flows a few months out of the year ain't it...."

Well Aaron I know you are opinionated, but I also know you are willing and able to learn.

So I would suggest you read a little more.

http://www.appalachian-center.org/media/2007/03_24.html

Yes, I am opinionated but at least I come by opinions on my own merit and don't need a political party to tell my what that opinion should be.

Now to the subject at hand. Please tell me how this makes underground mining safer and less damaging to the eco system then mountain top removal does, which was part of the discussion.

You don't tell me because you can't. You’ve linked a ruling that likely will be overturned by the 4th circuit court as two proceeding cases have been and this is supposed to the end all to the conversation.

It's not. As in the 2 proceeding cases, it was immediately appealed and sent to a higher court where the merits of the case will be reviewed.

But you know what Sherm. I don't have a problem with this ruling, if the judge is correct in his assessment. He didn't say mountain top removal was bad. He in know way condemned any actions by Massey or any of it's subsidiaries. What he did was condemn a branch of the government, the US Army Corp of Engineers for and how they approved these permits. He is questioning the studies done by the Corps and whether there should be more stringent studies done.

I don’t have a problem that or with requiring very strict regulations on mountain top mining. I’m all for it. My first question is, what if the Corp does the studies set forth by the judge and they find that the permits do meet the requirements for the Clean Air and Water Act, would you and yours accept that decision and stop protesting Mountaintop removal?

And if the study finds that Massey in not meeting the requirements of the CAWA, and Massey takes the necessary measures to meet the requirements to obtain a permit, would you accept that? Or would you and yours continue to protest a method of mining the is clearly safer for it’s employees and in complaisance with the CAWA, is safer for the environment as well?

And for the record, you never did answer my question, so I’ll ask again.

Do you want to see and end put mountain top mining and allow only deep underground mining, which is much more dangerous to workers and the environment or do you want to see a complete stoppage of all coal mining?

Well Aaron I am not sure what question you claim I have not answered.

I have stated repeatedly and uncategorically that I am opposed to mountaintop removal strip mining.

Heck I was even opposed to strip mining before they graduated to mtr.

I remember voting for Jay Rockefeller for Governor back in the day when he was an abolitionist.

That was probably before you were born. (early 70's)

You never answered the question as to whether you're against coal mining all together. It's a simple yes or no. Don't you have it in you Sherm???

You also failed to answer the questions I posed to you in my previous post.

I’m all for it. My first question is, what if the Corp does the studies set forth by the judge and they find that the permits do meet the requirements for the Clean Air and Water Act, would you and yours accept that decision and stop protesting Mountaintop removal?

And if the study finds that Massey in not meeting the requirements of the CAWA, and Massey takes the necessary measures to meet the requirements to obtain a permit, would you accept that? Or would you and yours continue to protest a method of mining the is clearly safer for it’s employees and in complaisance with the CAWA, is safer for the environment as well?

So what say you Sherm. Can't you answer simple questions???

What is this, a Poca inquisition.?

I am , for the umpteenth time, opposed to Mountaintop Removal Strip Mining. Yes.

I am not opposed to underground mining. No.

A funny thing occurred to me when I was doing a search for mining disasters. Of all the ones I could find, none were from mountain top mining???

And that doesn't even take into consideration the damage by huge underground mines left unatteneded to fill with water and do how much environmental damage. I know I wouldn't fish in the Big Sandy River.

Would you???

Yes Aaron that is part of the legacy of the coal industry in southern WV.

Thanks for sharing.

Hey, it's you and yours that are against a much safer method of mining. You got no one to blame but yourself.

Aaron wrote:Contrary to your belief Sherm, God in not a liberal or a democrat. He is the Great I AM and I hardly think how we get coal out of a mountain is more important to the GREAT I AM then how we treat our fellow man.

How we get coal out of the mountain IS a part of how we treat our fellow man.

If you think that MTR is without deleterious effect on the people who try to live in the area, just llook at what the victims of the summer 2001 and spring 2002 floods in Southern West Virginia endured as a residual effect of MTR. Look at what the people downstream of the Martin County sludge spill endured.

Of course, you could join the coal company lawyers and the coal insurance company lawyers and blame it all on God. But did you see God runnin' those drag lines and those dozers and those big ole' dump trucks? Or was God off somewhere putting on another of those GREAT I AM shows, and leavin' MTR up to the coal operators? ?

shermangeneral wrote:Well Aaron in this instance I think it would be better if it was further underground instead of so near the surface.

But in any event He/She gave us good brains to figure a way to get it out without destroying WV in the process.

Now if He/She had just figured out how to get some of those "good brains" elected to the WV Legislature ...... and hired as employees of the State ........

But for that He/She would need ....

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Aaron wrote:
I don't see a damn thing wrong with mountaintop removal so long as the property is reclaimed properly. It's sure as hell isn't as dangerous to humans or the environment as digging miles and miles of underground manmade caves, which are left open to fill with water and do how much damage years down the road?

Aaron, there is such a place on the Braxton/Gilmer line where the Town of Bower once was. There is probably enough water in the old mine shafts there, that if it broke loose it would "flush" the Little Kanawha River clear to Parkersburg.

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ziggy wrote:If you think that MTR is without deleterious effect on the people who try to live in the area, just look at what the victims of the summer 2001 and spring 2002 floods in Southern West Virginia endured as a residual effect of MTR.

Right on, and a couple more really good places to look for those "deleterious effect on the people" is over there off I-79 in the Clarksburg/Bridgeport area.

It is awsome I tell ya.

The Meadowbrook MTR site is the oldest and smallest but ya can still see hundreds n' hundreds of victims roaming around there every day.

But now the super-duper one is the conjoined East Point MTR site and the New Point MTR site where you can see THOUSANDS of victims roaming around there every day of the week.

But iffen ya wanna see what I mean, ya better get there early ...... or you will just be another one of those victims a roaming around n' around ...... looking for a place to park your vehicle.

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ziggy wrote:

Aaron wrote:Contrary to your belief Sherm, God in not a liberal or a democrat. He is the Great I AM and I hardly think how we get coal out of a mountain is more important to the GREAT I AM then how we treat our fellow man.

How we get coal out of the mountain IS a part of how we treat our fellow man.

If you think that MTR is without deleterious effect on the people who try to live in the area, just llook at what the victims of the summer 2001 and spring 2002 floods in Southern West Virginia endured as a residual effect of MTR. Look at what the people downstream of the Martin County sludge spill endured.

Of course, you could join the coal company lawyers and the coal insurance company lawyers and blame it all on God. But did you see God runnin' those drag lines and those dozers and those big ole' dump trucks? Or was God off somewhere putting on another of those GREAT I AM shows, and leavin' MTR up to the coal operators? ?

I note you left all links off as to who much rain was recorded, which is part of the equation.

I'm not saying there isn't vast amounts of room for improvements and Massey or every other coal company shouldn't do what the can to ensure those improvements are implemented.

Just like Sherm though, you would still be against MTR if Massey met the most stringent requirements, even though it is much safer for miners, and would be safer for the environment. In fact, I don't believe there's any way you support mining, unless it's the government running industry and distributing the wealth in a proper, socialized manner to the poor working man.

The thing with one sided agenda's is the critic often loses credibility.

Aaron are you totally against underground mining, or just using hyperbole to make a point?