SCOTUS John Jay said:

The very first Supreme Court Justice, John Jay, said “Americans should select and prefer Christians as their rulers.”

And Jesus Christ said "“Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s, and unto God the things that are God’s”

Which do you reckon is the wiser of the two?

And Alfred E. Newman said, ....... "WHAT, .. me worry?"

Jesus of Course!

I am couious however, What does rendering unto Ceasar have to do with preferring a chrstian over a non christain?

Why would Jay say we should prefer Christians to govern the United States of America and if you agree with him, why?

Aaron wrote:Why would Jay say we should prefer Christians to govern the United States of America and if you agree with him, why?

While that doesn't answer the question I asked, I'll answer yours.

I prefer people with conviction and answering to a moral absolute, than people who have no conviction and recognize no absolute. While I have run across many proclaiming to be christain who weren't, I have found that many of the people proclaiming to be christain do have some moral fiber and conviction about them. At least more so than, those proclaiming no christain affiliation, thus, when I place my vote I do look at their religious claims.

One of the major problems facing this nation is the election of leaders whose only conviction is getting elected and remaining elected. I want someone in office that believes they answer to a higher authority than themselves or me.

So are you saying only Christians have convictions and answer to a moral absolute? And as such, are you saying that our government should be a christian government?

Aaron wrote:So are you saying only Christians have convictions and answer to a moral absolute? And as such, are you saying that our government should be a christian government?

Nope, and you know better than that.

I am saying that for me and me alone, one of the things I consider is whether or not a person running for office proclaims themself to be a christian. If they do and IF their voting record indicates such, I will give them extra consideration. It doesn't mean that I will vote for them simply because they proclaim to be a christian, but it does mean that I will definately consider them.

Am I saying that Christian only have convictions? No I'm not. I am saying however that those proclaiming to be Christians, as a general rule, have convictions more inline with what I believe and generally will stick to those convictions. just to clarify, I'm talking about convictions like a respect for life, respect for another's liberty, attempting to live in peace as much as possible with all people, treating others as they want to be treated, and an understanding and respect for individaul responsibility.

Should we have a christian government? No, I prefer a constitutional republic, thank you very much. I believe however, that it is the rank and file christian that best suited to be governed that way. Why I believe that is simple. It is as John Adams said, the Constitution is suited only to govern a christian people, it is ill suited for anyone else, because it is so limited in the authority it give government. I beleive the way I do for the stated reason above, that being the convictions I hold dear. When people do not fell they answer to a higher authority than man himself, they can make the rules. The mess we see today in this nation, the greed, the narcissism, the power mongering, the fiddling in everyone's lives can be traced back to a people with no moral absolutes.

I'm curious, what exactly is a christian voting record?

Aaron wrote:I'm curious, what exactly is a christian voting record?

It is a voting record that mirrors what one professes to believe, dispite what the media or polls may say.

I believe in things like life begins at conception, forcing policy on another when they disagree with the policy is wrong, a person should do all they can to live peacefully with others, a person is responsible for their destiny, and there is absolute right and wrong. That is how I vote and what determines who gets my vote.

Give it up Willy, you are just spinning your wheels trying to get around or over a "slick spot" in the ...... road to reason.

I really don't think you actually mean a "moral authority" in the literal sense ....... but more like a "set of good morals" that one lives by .... that benefit and is in the best interest of not only themselves, but in the best interest of their family members, friends, neighbors and the populace as a whole.

And there is no doubt that a "Christian influence" on one's up-bringing or early nurturing has a profound effect on one's acquiring said "set of good morals" moreso than does a non-Christian nurturing, ..... but it does not guarantee said result. Personal morals are in reality the "root" of the Christian teachings.

But, to actually have a "set of good morals" one can not make choices as to who or what they want to apply them to. One can not be averting their eyes to any amoral acts or deeds perpetrated by family members or friends ...... and still claim to have a "set of good morals".

Only through Christian influence can one acquire a set of good morals?

Stephanie wrote:Only through Christian influence can one acquire a set of good morals?

I know that there are those in the secular world that have a strong sence of right and wrong. I would be silly to think otherwise. However, a true christian understands where both rights and the standard of moral behavior comes from and that neither are just suggestions. I personally, believe that both rights and the standard of moral behavior exist beyond me and are both absolute. They don't change simply because they don't suit me or I chooses to change them.

Anyways, whether or not you agree with me is a choice you make. This is one of the criteria I use when I consider who I will vote for. It isn't the only criteria, but it is important to me. You may have different criteria you consider and that is your choice, since we live in a free country.

With examples like Vaughn Reeves, Eddie Long, Joe Barron, George Rekers, Earl Paulk, Richard Roberts, Lonnie Latham, Paul Barnes, Ted Haggard, Jim and Tammy Baker and Jimmy Swaggart to name a select few, I hardly see how Christian and convictions are synonymous but that’s not the point of my post.

While I agree people like Ziggy have prostituted the 1st Amendment beyond recognition and there is no separation of church and state in the constitution, the fact remains that this county was founded on that very idea. Our founding fathers did not want religion to play a role in government any more then they wanted government imposing religious requirements on citizens.

So even though it has been abused beyond recognition by liberals, the founding fathers did desire a separation of church and government as did Jesus. That is clear in his New Testament teachings such as “Render unto Caesar.”

After all, wasn’t it Jesus who said “My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would have been fighting, that I might not be delivered over to the Jews. But my kingdom is not from the world.”

Cato wrote:However, a true christian understands where both rights and the standard of moral behavior comes from and that neither are just suggestions.

So is a true Christian anything like a true Scotsman?

Only through Christian influence can one acquire a set of good morals?

How is the Islamic influence doing on one acquiring a set of good morals that are acceptable to the Amerian way of life?

How is the inner-city ghetto's influence doing on one acquiring a set of good morals that are acceptable to the Amerian way of life?

How is the US Political Arena's influence doing on one acquiring a set of good morals that are acceptable to the Amerian way of life?

How is the US Public School System's influence doing on one acquiring a set of good morals that are acceptable to the Amerian way of life?

There are millions and millions of peaceful Muslims.

What about Buddhists.....how about that Dahlai Lama.......are his morals somehow inferior or corrupt?

No offense intended, Cato, but my question was for Sam. He surprised me.

Aaron wrote:With examples like Vaughn Reeves, Eddie Long, Joe Barron, George Rekers, Earl Paulk, Richard Roberts, Lonnie Latham, Paul Barnes, Ted Haggard, Jim and Tammy Baker and Jimmy Swaggart to name a select few, I hardly see how Christian and convictions are synonymous .

Then why didn't you include your name in the above list?

Stephanie wrote:
No offense intended, Cato, but my question was for Sam. He surprised me.

Hell, I thought he was true to form considering I was in the conversation.

SamCogar wrote:

Aaron wrote:With examples like Vaughn Reeves, Eddie Long, Joe Barron, George Rekers, Earl Paulk, Richard Roberts, Lonnie Latham, Paul Barnes, Ted Haggard, Jim and Tammy Baker and Jimmy Swaggart to name a select few, I hardly see how Christian and convictions are synonymous .

Then why didn't you include your name in the above list?

Why?

If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would have been fighting, that I might not be delivered over to the Jews.

You mean like the parents that fight to keep their lawbreaking children from being delivered over to the authorities ....... while at the same time demanding that the lawbreaking children of other parents be delivered over to the authorites?

SamCogar wrote:

If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would have been fighting, that I might not be delivered over to the Jews.

You mean like the parents that fight to keep their lawbreaking children from being delivered over to the authorities ....... while at the same time demanding that the lawbreaking children of other parents be delivered over to the authorites?

No

Aaron wrote:

SamCogar wrote:

Aaron wrote:With examples like Vaughn Reeves, Eddie Long, Joe Barron, George Rekers, Earl Paulk, Richard Roberts, Lonnie Latham, Paul Barnes, Ted Haggard, Jim and Tammy Baker and Jimmy Swaggart to name a select few, I hardly see how Christian and convictions are synonymous .

Then why didn't you include your name in the above list?

Why?

For the same reasons you listed those names above, ...... DUH.

SamCogar wrote:

Aaron wrote:

SamCogar wrote:

Aaron wrote:With examples like Vaughn Reeves, Eddie Long, Joe Barron, George Rekers, Earl Paulk, Richard Roberts, Lonnie Latham, Paul Barnes, Ted Haggard, Jim and Tammy Baker and Jimmy Swaggart to name a select few, I hardly see how Christian and convictions are synonymous .

Then why didn't you include your name in the above list?

Why?

For the same reasons you listed those names above, ...... DUH.

What is it that I have in common with those that I would list myself on the list? Have they made you look like a bitch in the past and caused you to get your panties in a wad?

Aaron wrote:

SamCogar wrote:

If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would have been fighting, that I might not be delivered over to the Jews.

You mean like the parents that fight to keep their lawbreaking children from being delivered over to the authorities ....... while at the same time demanding that the lawbreaking children of other parents be delivered over to the authorites?

No

"NO" what, ........ your current kingdom isn't of this world?