Among The Costs Of War
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Among The Costs Of War
$20B in Air Conditioning
June 25, 2011
June 25, 2011
The amount the U.S. military spends annually on air conditioning in Iraq and Afghanistan: $20.2 billion.
That's more than NASA's budget. It's more than BP has paid so far for damage during the Gulf oil spill. It's what the G-8 has pledged to help foster new democracies in Egypt and Tunisia.
"When you consider the cost to deliver the fuel to some of the most isolated places in the world escorting, command and control, medevac support when you throw all that infrastructure in, we're talking over $20 billion," Steven Anderson tells weekends on All Things Considered guest host Rachel Martin. Anderson is a retired brigadier general who served as Gen. David Patreaus' chief logistician in Iraq.
Why does it cost so much?
To power an air conditioner at a remote outpost in land-locked Afghanistan, a gallon of fuel has to be shipped into Karachi, Pakistan, then driven 800 miles over 18 days to Afghanistan on roads that are sometimes little more than "improved goat trails," Anderson says. "And you've got risks that are associated with moving the fuel almost every mile of the way."
Anderson calculates more than 1,000 troops have died in fuel convoys, which remain prime targets for attack. Free-standing tents equipped with air conditioners in 125 degree heat require a lot of fuel. Anderson says by making those structures more efficient, the military could save lives and dollars.
Still, his $20.2 billion figure raises stark questions about the ongoing war in Afghanistan. In the wake of President Obama's announcement this week that about 30,000 American troops will soon return home, how much money does the U.S. stand to save?
Dollars And Cents
The 30,000 troops who will return home by the end of next year were sent to Afghanistan in 2009, at a cost of about $30 billion. That comes out to about $1 million a soldier.
But the savings of withdrawing those troops won't equal out, experts say.
"What history has told us is that you don't see a proportional decrease in spending based on the number of troops when you draw them down," Chris Hellman, a senior research analyst at the National Priorities Project, tells Martin.
"In Afghanistan that's going to be particularly true because it's a very difficult and austere environment in which to operate," he says.
That means most war expenditures lie not in the troops themselves but in the infrastructure that supports them infrastructure that in some cases will remain in place long after troops are gone.
"We're building big bases," American University professor Gordon Adams tells Martin. The costs of those bases are, in economic terms, "sunk" costs, he says.
"We're seeing this in Iraq. We're turning over to the Iraqis mostly either for a small penny or for free the infrastructure that we built in Iraq. But we won't see back any money from that infrastructure."
Then there's the costly task of training Afghan security forces. The Obama administration has requested almost $13 billion to train and equip Afghan security forces in the next fiscal year.
And more importantly, Hellman says, "[Afghan President Hamid] Karzai indicated a couple years back that [Afghanistan] wasn't going to be a position to support their own military forces 15, 20 years out. I suspect we're going to be called on to pay a substantial part of that bill going forward."
Criticism From The President's Own Party
For critics of the president, the idea that the troop drawdown won't save much money is reason enough to suggest it should be bigger.
One outspoken critic is Sen. Joe Manchin (D-WV). He notes the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq have cost hundreds of billions of dollars so far, and he argues a larger troop drawdown isn't a national security risk.
"We have the greatest special ops in the world. We have more technology than any other country on earth," Manchin tells Martin. "Do we actually need to have 70,000 troops on the ground?"
"When you have this many people in a country that doesn't want you there that has no economy, no infrastructure and a corrupt government and you're trying to stabilize it and build them into a viable nation? I'm not sure we have enough time, and I definitely know we don't have enough money," Manchin says.
But others argue war should be waged independent of cost.
"The realm of war and peace exists separately apart and justifiably so from the economic realm," says Lawrence Kaplan, a visiting professor at the U.S. Army War College, who says critics like Manchin are looking for "economic answers to a non-economic question.
"And anyway, it's not the war that's broken Washington's piggy bank," he adds, noting that Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security account for far more spending than the $107 billion the Pentagon says it will spend in Afghanistan next year.
"Remember, we're talking about 30,000 troops," he says "I don't think that hundred-billion-dollar price tag should be the determining one."
Can Greener Mean Safer?
But for Anderson, the retired brigadier general, economics does have a role to play in modern warfare.
Anderson advocates for increased energy efficiency for military structures in order to cut down on the need for long, dangerous fuel-transport missions. A few months ago, Anderson heard from a company commander in Afghanistan.
"He literally has to stop his combat operations for two days every two weeks so he can go back and get his fuel. And when he's gone, the enemy knows he's gone, and they go right back to where they were before. He has to start his counter-insurgency operations right back at square one."
Anderson says experiments with polyurethane foam insulation for tents in Iraq cut energy use by 92 percent and took 11,000 fuel trucks off the road. But he adds there's a lack of enthusiasm for a greener military among top commanders.
"People look at it and say 'It's not my lane. We don't need to tie the operational commanders' hands' things like this," he says.
"A simple policy signed by the secretary of defense a one- or two-page memo, saying we will no longer build anything other than energy-efficient structures in Iraq and Afghanistan would have a profound impact."
Re: Among The Costs Of War
It's a fascinating reality, no doubt underreported, that of the energy costs of keeping soldiers safe vis a vis the heat. In the 1990s academics were crying out against American "hegemony," that is, undue influence on the rest of the world. Why not win places like Iraq and Afghanistan with quarter pounders and Brittany Spears?
SheikBen- Moderator
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Re: Among The Costs Of War
Interesting you should mention Brittany Spears.
A couple of years ago I got the brilliant idea that taking the train to RI would be a good idea. I was very wrong. However, I did meet and have a conversation with June Speakman, chair of the Political Science department at Roger Williams University.
I don't know how we got on the subject but we discussed why Middle Eastern Muslims were becoming radicalized American haters. You all know my position, we're over there invading, occupying and displacing and we send money and arms to Israel and shield them from UN sanctions and international condemnation for human rights atrocities and war crimes against Palestinians. She argues that it is the culture clash. She says they believe the west, particularly America, wants to corrupt their youth with Brittany Spears bumping and grinding in teddies on MTV etc. I'm not sure if Spears was actually mentioned, but that is the gist of her view.
A couple of years ago I got the brilliant idea that taking the train to RI would be a good idea. I was very wrong. However, I did meet and have a conversation with June Speakman, chair of the Political Science department at Roger Williams University.
I don't know how we got on the subject but we discussed why Middle Eastern Muslims were becoming radicalized American haters. You all know my position, we're over there invading, occupying and displacing and we send money and arms to Israel and shield them from UN sanctions and international condemnation for human rights atrocities and war crimes against Palestinians. She argues that it is the culture clash. She says they believe the west, particularly America, wants to corrupt their youth with Brittany Spears bumping and grinding in teddies on MTV etc. I'm not sure if Spears was actually mentioned, but that is the gist of her view.
Re: Among The Costs Of War
I have heard this from others, and I think that to some degree the "traditionalists" are militating against Brittany Spears and our cultural degradation. However, they would just as soon militate against women voting and driving, so we do well to be careful about worrying about such things.
My point is that if the radicalized Muslims hate Brittany Spears so much, because they are afraid that "she" (and all that comes with her) will corrupt their system and eventually bring about more secularization, then they are right. As such, I should like to see more Taco Bells, Wal-Marts, and bad music videos in the Middle East.
My point is that if the radicalized Muslims hate Brittany Spears so much, because they are afraid that "she" (and all that comes with her) will corrupt their system and eventually bring about more secularization, then they are right. As such, I should like to see more Taco Bells, Wal-Marts, and bad music videos in the Middle East.
SheikBen- Moderator
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Re: Among The Costs Of War
If I'm not mistaken, didn't our parents and grandparents swear Elvis and the Beetles were going to be the end of life as we know it?
Aaron- Number of posts : 9841
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Re: Among The Costs Of War
My maternal grandmother died in 1961 at the age of 51 and from what I've been told, she just loved Elvis. My paternal grandmother didn't care for him but adored the Beatles. That said, none of my grandparents or great-grandparents were Muslim, though.
Re: Among The Costs Of War
I wish we could do the last 110 years over. It would really be interesting to see what the world would be like, if we had stayed neutral during WW1, never interferred in the affairs of ther nations, never stationed any of our troops on foreign soil, never in anyway attempted to influance the leadership of another nation.
While I know that all we'll ever have in this regard is our best guess, which will always be tempered with our perosnal biases, it would certainly be interesting to see the result. Sadly we will never actually never will know which was the correct way or even if both ways were wrong.
While I know that all we'll ever have in this regard is our best guess, which will always be tempered with our perosnal biases, it would certainly be interesting to see the result. Sadly we will never actually never will know which was the correct way or even if both ways were wrong.
Cato- Number of posts : 2010
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Re: Among The Costs Of War
You mean if we had acted in the manner this country was meant to act when it was founded Cato?
Aaron- Number of posts : 9841
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Re: Among The Costs Of War
Aaron wrote:You mean if we had acted in the manner this country was meant to act when it was founded Cato?
Yeap, that is what I mean.
I am no historian nor am I really qualified to comment on the affect of events or to critique the "what ifs". I just have to wonder what kind of world we would live in today if we have stayed out of the affairs of other nations. Would WW1 have been the bloody mess it became, would France, Germany, and England have settled their differences diplomatically, would WW2 have been fought, or Korea, or Viet Nam, or would we be bogged down in the middle east. None of us can answer these questions. However, it seems to me time and again history has shown we need to be exploring alternatives to our present course of action.
What I find so interesting is the very people who seem to champion the individual being able to choose their own destiny are the ones that insist on messing in the affairs of other nations. That makes little sence to me.
Cato- Number of posts : 2010
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Re: Among The Costs Of War
Aaron wrote:If I'm not mistaken, didn't our parents and grandparents swear Elvis and the Beetles were going to be the end of life as we know it?
Well, I don't know if it was Elvis and the Beetles, but to be sure the culture and values of our grandparents generation, at least, were of great value and were destroyed.
Why can't mass media and pop culture have the same effect on the radicalized Muslims?
SheikBen- Moderator
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Re: Among The Costs Of War
Would one of those cultures be the institution of marriage Mike? After all, the divorce rate among our grandparents was well below 10% whereas our generation, 1 out of 2 marriages fail.
Aaron- Number of posts : 9841
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Re: Among The Costs Of War
It could ..... and it might, ..... eventually, .....maybe, .... in another 300 to 400 years at the rate things are going.Why can't mass media and pop culture have the same effect on the radicalized Muslims?
But now don't be forgetting that Mohammedism is 600 years younger than Christianity.
And Christianity shoved the Western World into the Dark Ages where it remained for 1,500 years before breaking "the hold" of the Church of Rome.
And Islam is following suite and is just now at the leading edge of their own Inquisition to insure the ushering in of The New Dark Ages under control and direction of the Caliphates of Mecca or where ever.
SamCogar- Number of posts : 6238
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Re: Among The Costs Of War
Can an institution be a culture?
SamCogar- Number of posts : 6238
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Re: Among The Costs Of War
Aaron wrote:Would one of those cultures be the institution of marriage Mike? After all, the divorce rate among our grandparents was well below 10% whereas our generation, 1 out of 2 marriages fail.
Definitely, Aaron. I don't think human depravity is 50 years old, but at the same time, one can look at marriage, violent crime, and schooling, and see how far we've lost our way.
SheikBen- Moderator
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Re: Among The Costs Of War
Aaron wrote:Would one of those cultures be the institution of marriage Mike? After all, the divorce rate among our grandparents was well below 10% whereas our generation, 1 out of 2 marriages fail.
Why do you think this is now the case?
Cato- Number of posts : 2010
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Re: Among The Costs Of War
We have forgotten God and how to treat one another.
BTW, my point stands that just as America has turned its back on Christian morals, the same forces can just as well turn radical Islam's back on her 'morals' as well, but with more desirable results.
Now I want to hasten to add that there are decent people in thriving marriages who are not Christians, and then there are Christians who are horrible spouses and neighbors. I still aver that a culture that respects the Scriptures is less willing of divorces, the great bulk of which are simply avoidable and best avoided (if in no other way, by smarter courtship in the first place).
BTW, my point stands that just as America has turned its back on Christian morals, the same forces can just as well turn radical Islam's back on her 'morals' as well, but with more desirable results.
Now I want to hasten to add that there are decent people in thriving marriages who are not Christians, and then there are Christians who are horrible spouses and neighbors. I still aver that a culture that respects the Scriptures is less willing of divorces, the great bulk of which are simply avoidable and best avoided (if in no other way, by smarter courtship in the first place).
SheikBen- Moderator
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Re: Among The Costs Of War
A little more then 3 out of 4 Americans identify as Christian. How have we turned our back on Christian morals? I wonder because many of the actions of those who claim to be Christians today mirror the actions of the Pharisees, those of whom Jesus called a "brood of vipers" and ask how they could escape the condemnation of hell.
It seems that the Son of David was right when he said there was nothing new under the sun.
It seems that the Son of David was right when he said there was nothing new under the sun.
Aaron- Number of posts : 9841
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Re: Among The Costs Of War
I hate to break the bad news to you all but the primary reason for the escalation of the divorce rate from below 10% to above 50% was not instigated by or the fault of mass media and pop culture.
The facts of the matter is that said escalating divorce rate was instigated by and the fault of our Federal Governments Laws and Policies, .. beginning with and specifically .. LBJs Great Society Program, . otherwise known as the Appalachian Program.
The "institution of marriage" exacerbated it's decent into "Hell in a Handbasket" in direct proportion to the exacerbation of benefits and services being given to adolescents, young adults and/or single parents.
The facts of the matter is that said escalating divorce rate was instigated by and the fault of our Federal Governments Laws and Policies, .. beginning with and specifically .. LBJs Great Society Program, . otherwise known as the Appalachian Program.
The "institution of marriage" exacerbated it's decent into "Hell in a Handbasket" in direct proportion to the exacerbation of benefits and services being given to adolescents, young adults and/or single parents.
SamCogar- Number of posts : 6238
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Re: Among The Costs Of War
My point Mike and Sam as Sam unwittingly pointed out is that what many perceive to be a loss of morals isn't so much a loss of morals as much as it's that those losses are no public whereas before they were private.
Divorce is the perfect example. Marriages didn't suddenly start failing because men and women just now started cheating and beating on each other. Those sins, if you will, have been around since the dawn of time. The difference is that we now live in a society that instead of ostrasizing each other for divorcing now recognize that we are better off separating then enduring the agony of mental and physical abuse.
At least that's my take on the situation.
Divorce is the perfect example. Marriages didn't suddenly start failing because men and women just now started cheating and beating on each other. Those sins, if you will, have been around since the dawn of time. The difference is that we now live in a society that instead of ostrasizing each other for divorcing now recognize that we are better off separating then enduring the agony of mental and physical abuse.
At least that's my take on the situation.
Aaron- Number of posts : 9841
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Re: Among The Costs Of War
and Sam as Sam unwittingly pointed out
SamCogar- Number of posts : 6238
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Re: Among The Costs Of War
I'm laughing at you to Sammy.
Aaron- Number of posts : 9841
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Re: Among The Costs Of War
Laughing is like getting pregnant.
Both are things ya don't hafta learn how to do before you can do them.
Both are things ya don't hafta learn how to do before you can do them.
SamCogar- Number of posts : 6238
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