Teach the controversy

Stein: …Love of God and compassion and empathy leads you to a very glorious place, and science leads you to killing people.

http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=NWRmOTU2YzZlN2RhMzhjNzEwNzQ3MzFiZDE2NjM3NWE=

So tell me again how religion has nothing to do with the stifling of science. Aaron? Sheik? Sam?

Is Stein a random nutball or "bonehead", Aaron?

In the "Wish I'd Said That" category:

And there is science, perhaps the greatest of all our achievements, because nowhere else on earth did it appear. China, India, the Muslim world, all had fine cities and systems of law, architecture and painting, poetry and prose, religion and philosophy. None of them ever accomplished what began in northwest Europe in the later 17th century, though: a scientific revolution. Thoughtful men and women came together in learned societies to compare notes on their observations of the natural world, to test their ideas in experiments, and in reasoned argument against the ideas of others, and to publish their results in learned journals. A body of common knowledge gradually accumulated. Patterns were observed, laws discerned and stated.

If I write with more feeling than usual here it is because I have just shipped off a review to an editor (for another magazine) of Gino Segrè’s new book about the history of quantum mechanics. It’s a good, if not very remarkable, book giving pen-portraits of the great players in physics during the 1920s and 1930s, and of their meetings and disagreements. Segrè, a particle physicist himself, who has been around for a while, knew some of these people personally, and of course heard many anecdotes from their intellectual descendants. It's a “warm” book, full of feeling for the scientists and their magnificent enterprise, struggling with some of the most difficult problems the human intellect has ever confronted, striving with all their powers to understand what can barely be understood.

Gino Segrè’s book — and, of course, hundreds like it (I have, ahem, dabbled myself) brings to us a feeling for what the scientific endeavor is like, and how painfully its triumphs are won, with what sweat and tears. Our scientific theories are the crowning adornments of our civilization, towering monuments of intellectual effort, built from untold millions of hours of observation, measurement, classification, discussion, and deliberation. This is quite apart from their wonderful utility — from the light, heat, and mobility they give us, the drugs and the gadgets and the media. (A “thank you” wouldn’t go amiss.) Simply as intellectual constructs, our well-established scientific theories are awe-inspiring.

And now here is Ben Stein, sneering and scoffing at Darwin, a man who spent decades observing and pondering the natural world — that world Stein glimpses through the window of his automobile now and then, when he’s not chattering into his cell phone. Stein claims to be doing it in the name of an alternative theory of the origin of species: Yet no such alternative theory has ever been presented, nor is one presented in the movie, nor even hinted at. There is only a gaggle of fools and fraudsters, gaping and pointing like Apaches on seeing their first locomotive: “Look! It moves! There must be a ghost inside making it move!”

-John Derbyshire

Anyone that is truly concerned with "intellectual dishonesty" should peruse this site.

TerryRC wrote:Stein: …Love of God and compassion and empathy leads you to a very glorious place, and science leads you to killing people.

http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=NWRmOTU2YzZlN2RhMzhjNzEwNzQ3MzFiZDE2NjM3NWE=

So tell me again how religion has nothing to do with the stifling of science. Aaron? Sheik? Sam?

Read history and/or scriptures and someone can explain to you that both Jewism and Christianity owe their survival as a Religion to "the killing of people".

Religion attempts to stifle any and all beliefs and actions that are contrary to the Religious doctrine that is "currently" in favor.

TerryRC wrote:Is Stein a random nutball or "bonehead", Aaron?

Everyone has an opinion ........ but only Stein knows what his thoughts are.

If Roger Moore and Mel Gibson can make a "bundle" by making a movie, ..... why not Stein?

Doesn't "Christian material" ...... sell almost as good as pornography?


.

Everyone has an opinion ........ but only Stein knows what his thoughts are.

I was merely pointing out that the rant about atheists in the Gazette that I quoted was not an isolated voice in the woods, contrary to Aaron's assertions.

If Roger Moore and Mel Gibson can make a "bundle" by making a movie, ..... why not Stein?

Doesn't "Christian material" ...... sell almost as good as pornography?

Well, considering to date it [Expelled] has only made about 3 thou per theater (it only has been shown/showing in about 1050 theaters, nationwide) I don't know how well it could be said to be selling.

It is the 15th best selling big screen documentary, but considering the relative rarity of of such, I can't say that is very impressive.

Nothing will ever sell as well as good pornography...

TerryRC wrote:In the "Wish I'd Said That" category:

And there is science, perhaps the greatest of all our achievements, because nowhere else on earth did it appear. China, India, the Muslim world, all had fine cities and systems of law, architecture and painting, poetry and prose, religion and philosophy. None of them ever accomplished what began in northwest Europe in the later 17th century, though: a scientific revolution. Thoughtful men and women came together in learned societies to compare notes on their observations of the natural world, to test their ideas in experiments, and in reasoned argument against the ideas of others, and to publish their results in learned journals. A body of common knowledge gradually accumulated. Patterns were observed, laws discerned and stated.

-John Derbyshire

Anyone that is truly concerned with "intellectual dishonesty" should peruse this site.

TRC, ...... YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT, ........... because John Derbyshire is "full of crap" .............. and in the same "intellectual boat" as you.

The "scientists" of the Chinese and Mediterranean cultures were 2,000 years ahead of 17th century Europe.

The Royal Library of Alexandria, also known as the Great Library or simply the Library of Alexandria in Alexandria, Egypt, was once the largest library in the world.

It is generally thought to have been founded at the beginning of the Third century BCE, during the reign of Ptolemy II of Egypt. The Library was likely created after his father had built what would become the first part of the Library complex, the temple of the Muses – the Mouseion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_Alexandria

It is estimated that the Library contained between 500,000 and 700,000 scrolls.

And GEEEZE, .... the Chinese were "printing paper money" almost 1,000 years before the printing press "was invented" in Europe.

And here is another of the thousands of "scientific thingys":

Associated Press
Published on: 01/18/05

SAN DIEGO — Two thousand years later, astronomers still talk about Hipparchus' star catalog, the earliest known compendium of the night sky.

Hipparchus, who lived in Greece during the second century B.C., was perhaps the world's first great astronomer. He calculated, within six and a half minutes, the length of a year. He figured out that Earth's axis wobbles as it spins. For his star catalog, completed in 129 B.C., he devised a coordinate system to plot each star's location and a scale to rank the brightness. Astronomers still use this magnitude scale today.

http://www.ajc.com/news/content/news/science/0105/18hipparchus.html

TerryRC wrote:Stein: …Love of God and compassion and empathy leads you to a very glorious place, and science leads you to killing people.

http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=NWRmOTU2YzZlN2RhMzhjNzEwNzQ3MzFiZDE2NjM3NWE=

So tell me again how religion has nothing to do with the stifling of science. Aaron? Sheik? Sam?

Is Stein a random nutball or "bonehead", Aaron?

Last time I checked Ben Stein was an actor and director. Or does he hold some positon in government that I don't know about?

So how's he stiffling your biology class again?

TerryRC wrote:Putting "God" on our money and in our pledge.

Pushing to narrowly define marriage in judeo-christian terms. Every blue law on the books.

Nope, people never seek to legislate their beliefs.

I never said that christians shouldn't make legislation and only atheists should. I said that people shouldn't try to legislate their religious beliefs.

Your argument is strawman.

There are none so blind as those that refuse to see...

Don't spend the money and don't say the pledge.

It's really quite simple.

Like it or not, the money thing has been challeneged in the legal system and, regardless of what you think, it stood. I guess if it chaffes you that much, contribute to the fund and file again. Who knows, maybe one of these days you libs will get yourself straightened out and learn how the government works and actually make some of these changes you constantly cry about.

Sam, when he is talking about science, I believe he is referring to the Scientific revolution.

You know, the beginnings of modern science...

Since the time of Voltaire, some observers have considered that a revolutionary change in thought, called in recent times a scientific revolution, took place around the year 1600; that is, that there were dramatic and historically rapid changes in the ways in which scholars thought about the physical world and studied it. Science, as it is treated in this account, is essentially understood and practiced in the modern world; with various "other narratives" or alternate ways of knowing omitted.

Don't let that keep you from getting upset and implying that I am full of crap, or anything...

Like it or not, the money thing has been challeneged in the legal system and, regardless of what you think, it stood. I guess if it chaffes you that much, contribute to the fund and file again. Who knows, maybe one of these days you libs will get yourself straightened out and learn how the government works and actually make some of these changes you constantly cry about.

At least you admit that people do legislate their religious beliefs.

The rest of your post is tripe.

Last time I checked Ben Stein was an actor and director. Or does he hold some positon in government that I don't know about?

So how's he stiffling your biology class again?

He was a Nixon appointee, so he did hold a position in government...

I can't help but notice the direction of your argument has changed...

It seems that the person that railed against atheists in the Gazette isn't so isolated.

Nothing will ever sell as well as good pornography...

Good pronography? Now that's gotta be an oxymoron!

Good pronography? Now that's gotta be an oxymoron!

Some of the first things that primitive man drew were ladies with big bewbs.

It is in our genes, I reckon...

TerryRC wrote:Like it or not, the money thing has been challeneged in the legal system and, regardless of what you think, it stood. I guess if it chaffes you that much, contribute to the fund and file again. Who knows, maybe one of these days you libs will get yourself straightened out and learn how the government works and actually make some of these changes you constantly cry about.

At least you admit that people do legislate their religious beliefs.

The rest of your post is tripe.

I'm not suprised that's what you take from it Lib.

TerryRC wrote:Last time I checked Ben Stein was an actor and director. Or does he hold some positon in government that I don't know about?

So how's he stiffling your biology class again?

He was a Nixon appointee, so he did hold a position in government...

I can't help but notice the direction of your argument has changed...

It seems that the person that railed against atheists in the Gazette isn't so isolated.

My agrument hasn't changed at all LIB and I got no problem with Atheist. The only group I have problems with is dumb ass liberals trying to push their unconstitutional agenda on Americans.

And I don't know if you know it or not but "WAS" means past tense. What does that have to do with today?

My agrument hasn't changed at all LIB and I got no problem with Atheist. The only group I have problems with is dumb ass liberals trying to push their unconstitutional agenda on Americans.

Yes, because making sure that the government doesn't play favorites with religion is SO unconstitutional.

And I don't know if you know it or not but "WAS" means past tense.

Wow. I'll bet you needed the blue beads on the abacus to figure that one out, Pythagoras.

I was just pointing out that he was in politics. Do you ever really get out of politics?

So your contending that Ben Stein has the power and continues to influence Congress today, almost 40 years after serving in the Nixon Adminstration.

Whatever you say Lib.

So your contending that Ben Stein has the power and continues to influence Congress today, almost 40 years after serving in the Nixon Adminstration.

I'm saying that once a conniving lying politician, always a conniving lying politician.

As for tripe based on religion being pushed about in Congress, I posted some in the other thread.

P.S. You have used the word "lib" in reference to me so frequently that it doesn't irritate me anymore.

P.P.S. I suggest you use "terrorist", or "psychopath", perhaps "babyraper", if you want to get a rise out of me in the future.

TerryRC wrote:So your contending that Ben Stein has the power and continues to influence Congress today, almost 40 years after serving in the Nixon Adminstration.

I'm saying that once a conniving lying politician, always a conniving lying politician.

As for tripe based on religion being pushed about in Congress, I posted some in the other thread.

P.S. You have used the word "lib" in reference to me so frequently that it doesn't irritate me anymore.

P.P.S. I suggest you use "terrorist", or "psychopath", perhaps "babyraper", if you want to get a rise out of me in the future.

If I wanted to get a rise out of you lib I would. I'm content proving you wrong again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again again and again and again again.

Lib.

TerryRC wrote:Since you bring up the topic of "focus", however...

That is what creationists and IDer's do. They attack evolution and/or the scientific community. By doing so, it keeps them from ever having to offer evidence to support their "theories".

The whole movie (Ben Stein's movie) is about going after the scientific community and the "conspiracy", taking the focus off of the shortcomings of the ID movement.

Well now, I see the self-proclaimed "Kanawha Valley Expert", .... The Priest of Poca, .... has now voiced his opinion on the subject of Stein's movie, which confirms what TRC states above, ...... to wit:

Dawkins and others exposed in "EXPELLED" mandate that the hallucination of evolutionism be forced upon public school children. Parents who want an honest and open education for their children will not get it in the public schools because scientific truth has been expelled.

My experience of trying to get scientific facts, critical of evolution, taught in public school science classes proved beyond the shadow of a doubt that the public schools cannot be changed. "EXPELLED" confirms this iron grip of censorship extends through all educational levels.

"EXPELLED: No Intelligence Allowed" superbly drives home the dangerous dishonesty of evolutionism. Evolutionists have even tried to prevent theaters from showing the film. Everyone who wants to think for themselves should see "EXPELLED."

Priest, of Poca, is a retired teacher and state coordinator of Exodus Mandate-West Virginia, a group that promotes Christian education and home schooling.

http://www.wvgazette.com/Opinion/Op-EdCommentaries/200805010721

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My experience of trying to get scientific facts, critical of evolution, taught in public school science classes proved beyond the shadow of a doubt that the public schools cannot be changed. "EXPELLED" confirms this iron grip of censorship extends through all educational levels.

That might be because there aren't many scientific facts that are critical of evolution.

Priest also fails to recognize that pointing out holes someone's theory doesn't lend support to your own.

I guess the burning question is, "What was Priest doing trying to teach biology (and poor biology at that) in his math class? Shouldn't he have been teaching math? Is he even qualified to teach biology?"

I notice that the school let him have his creation science club and use school facilities to meet in. Yep, they really stifled him.