Will we be viewed as racist...

Like they say, all is fair in Love, war, and politics.

btw is there anyone on here who thinks Obama will or should pick Hillary for VP?

If so does anybody think she would "take one for the Party" and accept?

Well zig to answer your contention that the Clintons have not been branded as racists, as you know I get a lot of my opinions from Sirius Left talk radio.

Nearly all the hosts, and a clear majority of the caller-inners have been virulently anti-Clinton and have played the so-called "race card" from the beginning.

And they have been egged on by the rightwing jerks like Dick Morris.

(I think his big beef with the Clintons was he worked for them as a political advisor/consultant and they had to let him go after he somehow got himself caught up in a scandal having to do with sucking a prostitute's toes or something. But I digress...)

But since you are not privy to Sirius let me just make my point using the universally available sources.

Bill Clinton made the truthful observation after the SC Primary that Jesse Jackson also won the Dem Primary.

Now it should come as no surprise that a Black candidate wins the SC Dem Primary, since half the Dem voters in SC are black. And they traditionally and understandably will support a black candidate.

To me, there is nothing wrong either with them voting for the black candidate or with Bill Clinton pointing it out.

I made the same observation myself.

But the news spinners descended on Clinton like vultures on a fresh corpse.

And they branded him (and by extension her) as a racist from that point forward.

The so-called mainstream media did that, egged on by the daily reminders from the Obama spin machine.

(I will pause and let you respond, instead of rambling on and on with a long list of other examples ok)

Also Linda Redtail I have not forgotten your heads up about Hillary's Bible Study group.

So far about everything I have read seems positive to me.

But I will keep rummaging around.

Meanwhile, if you find something more specific please shoot it to me.

I dont mind getting pm's if it is something you dont want to post.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5071798

btw did you notice that this appears to be on Obama letterhead?

hmmmmmm......

shermangeneral wrote:Like they say, all is fair in Love, war, and politics.

btw is there anyone on here who thinks Obama will or should pick Hillary for VP?

If so does anybody think she would "take one for the Party" and accept?

Picking Hillary for VP would be an absolute disaster for the Democrats, and as such I'm all for it.

Hillary as VP brings far more voters to the polls to vote for McCain than for Obama. McCain cannot, on his own, appeal to staunch conservatives and libertarians. He needs Obama's "help," and choosing Hillary Clinton would be just the help that McCain needs.

Republicans just don't like Hillary Clinton. Let me be candid and say that I do not know why; she strikes me as no more loathsome than your average Democrat (and a great many Republicans) in office. However, other Republicans seem to just hate her with every fiber of their being. Any ideas as to why?

No Mike I do not know why.

I never knew why they hated Bill either.

Heck he pretty much went along with everything the republicans wanted.

Maybe because they won't roll over and refuse to fight back like Kerry did?

It is a strange set of circumstances I find myself in here Mike.

I am not a big Hillary supporter and did not even vote for Bill.

But I am just not comfortable with Obama.

I guess what I would like to see is a deadlocked convention and a compromise candidate emerge that everyone can live with.

btw did anyone else check Linda redtails link re Hillary's Bible Study group?

Did anyone besides Linda have a problem with it?

The biggest thing I came away with was it was sent out on Obama letterhead so that kinda dispells the claim about Obama's new politics and all.

ShermanGeneral It is not the truth that the information regarding Douglas Coe was on Obama's letterhead. www.oliverwillis.com, www.thnation.com/doc/20080331/ehrenreich,www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5071798, the current.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/03/clinton-fellowship.php, www.nytimes.com/2007/07/06/politics/07clinton-text.html?pagewanted=print, www.informationliberation.com/?id=23858. None of those are on Obama's letterhead. People should have a problem with a secretive religious group having so much power in government. If you don't that's up to you but don't be untruthful and attribute the information to a source it doesn't belong to. You keep saying that you don't really like Hillary but everything you post belies that. I don't believe that the smoke-filled room compromise candidate will come. And there will be no deadlocked convention. That would be a political blow the Democratic Party hierarchy would not allow. I already saw on the Today Show a report by Andrea Mitchell (she's traveling with HRC) that she will be out maybe by weeks end. Even her own people are pressuring her now. She wants a couple of things Andrea Mitchell said. The Fla. and MI delegates seated in some capacity and aid in paying off her debt. What you believe is up to you.

I don't know SheikBen exactly why the conservatives hate Hillary so much but they do. My thought on it has always been that many felt that both as first lady of Arkansas, and first lady of the U.S. that she refused to accept a traditional role and was involved in all kinds of things that first ladies don't generally involve themself in. She is also outspoken at times and the attempt to bring universal health care in Bill's first term seemed to be the big torpedoes for them disliking her so intensely. In Arkansas I also believe that she continued to practice law which most conservatives don't agree with.

Well Linda redtail you are fairly new on here but trust me I have never been a big Clinton fan or supporter.

I was for Edwards, but even that was a compromise for me.

Kucinich actually had views closer to mine but I did not think he could be a serious contender.

My seeming support for Hillary is really more of a reluctance to accept Obama and to being turned off by the arrogance of many of his supporters.

(I refer to his white elitist supporters, not his core of black support which I understand completely.)

As to my comment about the Obama camp being behind the Coe deal, please check this out and see if you think it came from the Obama camp or not ok.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5071798


I know you dont want to believe the Obama bunch are "dirty" politicians who try to denigrate the other side.

(Maybe it would be easier to believe when you are reminded that so many of them used to be affiliated with the Clintons.) lol

lindaredtail wrote:If you didn't come right out and make that point that is what it meant as you now admit yourself that you don't like him. So, and you don't like Hillary. It was obvious in your postings. Yeah, after I told you. If he lives there than how are his businesses outsiders raping WV of its natural resources? Ask Sherm or Ziggy about those out-of-state corporations, they can explain it so that you can understand it. Does no WV resident own a business with an office outside WV? We were not discussing other WV residents. Why wouldn't he keep an eye on the family businesses? Family investments, NOT businesses. Educate yourself, Linda Lou, learn the difference between the two. This post of yours is a highly innane one without a point or it has totally escaped me. I can believe that, ..... that it TOTALLY escaped you. Or, ...... I can believe you are just "playing dumb". Everything you posted about him pointed to the fact which you just revealed that you don't like him. HA, just because I don't like him as an elected Official doesn't mean the FACTS I posted about him are NOT facts. Linda Lou, you are overtly displaying your feminine mindset. If you are looking for a story in this one the book isn't there. PHOOEY, .... how would you know? Your expressed limited knowledge concerning said is proof that you don't even know that a book does in fact exist, thus you wouldn't know of the stories within it.

.

shermangeneral wrote:No Mike I do not know why.

I never knew why they hated Bill either.

Heck he pretty much went along with everything the republicans wanted.

Maybe because they won't roll over and refuse to fight back like Kerry did?

It is a strange set of circumstances I find myself in here Mike.

I am not a big Hillary supporter and did not even vote for Bill.

But I am just not comfortable with Obama.

I guess what I would like to see is a deadlocked convention and a compromise candidate emerge that everyone can live with.

btw did anyone else check Linda redtails link re Hillary's Bible Study group?

Did anyone besides Linda have a problem with it?

The biggest thing I came away with was it was sent out on Obama letterhead so that kinda dispells the claim about Obama's new politics and all.

I think if you are not comfortable with Obama you are in a great minority of Democrats, Sherm. I'm not comfortable with him, either, but I'm quite sure for very different reasons than yours (and no, friends, his name and father have nothing to do with it). There has been a pro-Obama love fest that is pretty well entrenched now among the nation's left. There are a few like you, Sherm, who have not been swept up, and I think it speaks the best of you, this independence of thought. At the same time, I don't think you are indicative of any trend.

As for Hillary going to a Bible study, I don't care if she went to a seminary of my denomination and could quote the entire book of Romans. I find her politics atrocious--what does it matter to me what she has done in the past or to what organizations to which she belongs?

As for your critique of Bill, you are dead on. Bill Clinton was able to greatly undo New Deal entitlements, something that Ronald Reagan never was able to (but would have liked to). I'm not suggesting that I favor such entitlements, but I am saying that Bill Clinton was, to some extent, the Republican congress' patsy, as evidenced by the Welfare Reform Act of 1996.

But, since he believed in the legal right to kill your child in the womb, the left forgave him quicker than Monica forgot her scruples.

Incidentally, Sherm,I think Obama's weak spot in his "new politics" is his support of Cook County President Todd Stroger, who pretty much inherited his position from his father and has given all kinds of patronage jobs to family and friends (all the while increasing the county's portion of the sales tax--making for a Chicago total of 10.25%). I think his "new politics" claim will be submarined by this reality, provided that the Republicans have the cajones to make it an issue. If they are afraid of charges of racism (which will come by leftist machine politicians who are not used to criticism) I think they can make Obama look very, very bad.

The prosecution has rested in the Rezko case and a guilty verdict is expected within a week or so (as you alone here are only too aware). McCain will not question Obama's relationship to the Cook County machine but the hired guns over at the RNC surely will...

SamCogar as usual it is not my post that was innane it was yours just by the foolish way that it was written (a bit attention-seeking don't you think?) Tell me what do you think family investments are? People who own stocks own part of those companies. Does the term Majority stock holder mean anything to you or is it outside your present train of thought? And I asked the question about other businesses for a reason. It is because your disapproval of Jay Rockerfeller is based in his being a Democrat not necessarily because he has done something wrong. Your statement that it doesn't make the facts untrue is laughable. I don't really see any facts. I see OPINION which of course I know to you your opinion is the same as fact. I am afraid however that is very far from the truth.

ShermanGeneral did you really look at all of them? I can give you many more if you want them. My computer doesn't paste so I print them out and type them in. Give me a little while and I will get a large number to you.

I clicked on the first link you sent and it led me to several different sources.

None of which struck me as much more than standard fare evangelical boilerplate lingo.

But I noticed the one to democrat underground (whatever that is) appeared to be faxed to them on Obama letterhead.

I know on the leftwing talk shows they have an organized effort going to smear Clinton on this and numerous other issues.

Do you suppose they are really McCain supporters posing as Obama supporters?

They certainly sound like they are on the koolaid.

ohio county wrote:The prosecution has rested in the Rezko case and a guilty verdict is expected within a week or so (as you alone here are only too aware). McCain will not question Obama's relationship to the Cook County machine but the hired guns over at the RNC surely will...

.

I left Cook County February 1st. As far as I can tell, I got ought just in time. The county is firing nurses and then giving 6 figure jobs to political friends of Todd Stroger. The justice system here is a joke. You do not want to be a crime victim in Cook County, and if you are, while you are waiting to testify, you can't even buy a gun to protect yourself (and the police are too over-spent to protect you. Of course, if they do and kill a would be murderer on your doorstep, they'll have to face an inquiry as to why they chose to actually do their jobs).

Cook County is one big disaster. Highest sales taxes in the nation, with high property taxes as well, funding a political machine that is not responsive to the needs and wishes of those not politically connected.

shermangeneral wrote:Also Linda Redtail I have not forgotten your heads up about Hillary's Bible Study group.

So far about everything I have read seems positive to me.

But I will keep rummaging around.

I looked at that link too, Sherm.

If I thought Hillary really took that religious stuff seriously, I might fault her for it. But I do not think she does. It appears to only be politically convenient for her- like religion is mostly socially convenient for much of America- and so I won't worry much about it.

West Virginia nurses are retiring to accept six figure jobs in California. They fly out, work a four day shift, live in a hospital-owned apartment rent-free, and fly home every weekend.

Ziggy, I agree that Hillary's display of religion is politically convenient, but why would you fault her for taking "that religious stuff seriously?" Isn't that the kind of intolerance that you accuse those religious people of displaying?

ohio county wrote:West Virginia nurses are retiring to accept six figure jobs in California. They fly out, work a four day shift, live in a hospital-owned apartment rent-free, and fly home every weekend.

My cousin turned down big bucks to do the same from the Mahoning Valley. Nursing is the route to go, especially with our aging population. Unfortunately I can't handle blood or needles, so I'm afraid I'm out of the running, and Mrs. Sheik continues to insist that I be the bread-winner. C'est la guerre.

ShermanGeneral I don't know if they are really McCain supporters. I doubt it (to liberal for his list of friends) I go back to work pretty soon. I work a split shift. I get home at about three so I will send you some more references then if you would like them.

SheikBen wrote:Ziggy, I agree that Hillary's display of religion is politically convenient, but why would you fault her for taking "that religious stuff seriously?" Isn't that the kind of intolerance that you accuse those religious people of displaying?

No.

When or where have I ever suggested that anyone's political preferences either should or should not be based on whatever tolerances or intolerances one choses to include in making his or her political judgments?

Owell zig I got to hit the road.

By the time I get back it could well be over for the Primary.


btw are you guys gonna have anyone on the ballot against J Rockefeller?

He has really hurt himself by going allout for Obama directly against his constituents' wishes so if there was a halfway credible candidate running he/she might make some hay for your new party.

The republicans do not have a serious candidate, else they might have a shot of winning the seat, imo.

lindaredtail wrote:(Page 12, 1st post) Actually SamCogar I made a great deal of sense just not in your opinion which was the whole point of the posting which you appear to not be able to comprehend. Linda, I comprehend more about you that what you think. If it doesn't fit what you want it to be then it can not be right. Not so Linda, if the FACTS don't support it IT CAN NOT BE RIGHT. You have made some postings that were just as long but you don't ramble of course. But I "ramble" as clearly and precisely as possible so that one can not claim ignorance of the context. You have had some wrongly spelled words ect. I intentionally spell some word wrong, which should be obvious to the reader. yet not once have I made fun of you for it. Have I? And I have not critiqued your spelling. Or your punctuation which is atrocious. You however didn't hesitate to find fault with my lack of paragraphs. And that is/was because it is a chore FOR ANYONE to read a long post without a single "paragraph break" within the contents. I have found this to be the habit of right-wingers when someone has made a point they a. wish to ignore b. Don't want to address c. don't like the honesty. Happens actually quite frequently. I am finding that you are no different, no better informed, no more comprehending than any of the other right-wing posters. Always the sarcasm, always the insult when they don't like what someone says. Well Linda, I believe you have just described a “right-winger’s” post on Page 11, which I have copied and pasted below, to wit:

lindaredtail wrote:SamCogar I am very far from naive. Or silly Or softhearted. I know this is a tuff forum and I have been enjoying it. You're good but alot of it is twaddle. ................. You and Aaron both quote different "facts" continuously but the application of the facts is usually flawed. ............... I see quotes from Wikipedia which is sometimes less than reliable. ........... You apply a standard which is not valid in the light of the greater context and the greater volume of cases. Then the subject continually comes to you don't understand the court just hasn't been as it should for these cases to be decided AS YOU BELIEVE THAT THEY SHOULD BE. ........... In one post you used the word conservative. Isn't that what you are really saying but refusing to acknowledge it. That conservative justices interpret the Constitution in the way that YOU PREFER it to be interpreted. I would be less than honest if I said that I did not support more liberal appointees. You however display a lack of self-honesty when you continually attempt to make the point that the literalist interpretation is the proper one and that how you see it has nothing to do with your political, social and religious belief system.

Linda, now you will have to post a "CYA post" in an attempt to explain your sarcasms and insults that you posted in an attempt to boost your ego and to discredit my good name.

lindaredtail wrote:(Page 12, 2nd post) SamCogar I always treat you with respect. I don't use the terminology like you have Linda lou, Linda love lace. Please show me the same courtesy which I show you because it is lacking.

Linda, it is quite odd that you claim to treat me with respect when you just got through accusing me of being DISHONEST, yet you provided no truths or facts to justify your accusation. Some “respect” you treat others with, HUH?

But in that I just addressed that post, let me address my reason for using aforementioned terminology.

Linda, don’t be pulling that shidt on me, and then be getting all pouty and pissy faced when I reply in-kind. Here below, Linda, are extracts from your posts which “led up to” my in-kind replies. To wit:

lindaredtail wrote:I don't believe that everyone was given a free ride. We now have welfare reform and it seems that big business is the ones getting the free ride. Is it really tripling the size of the big tent for Americans to have health care coverage? I do not believe it is. What it really is is an investment in the future of our country. A well population is a productive population. And it makes me sad that I seem to have a better view of West Virginians than you do.

Linda, just how in hell do you figure you have a “a better view of West Virginians than” I do, …. when you know absolutely nothing about the people, their history and/or their culture?

lindaredtail wrote:SamCogar. I take great offense to the "Manifest Destiny" argument I hate to admit to it but I do. White Europeans used that same type of thought process to justify their taking of native lands especially here in America. That they had a God-given right to come to the West and slaughter millions of indigeous peoples. That they were supposed to do so. That God wanted them to. When in reality it was about desiring land and the natural riches here that brought them. Terrible things were done in the name of manifest destiny. I am part native american and my mother's ancestors were slaughtered by Canadian troops and logging company workers who wanted the forest area. That argument doesn't fly with me. Manifest Destiny is about greed and selfishness and has nothing to do with God. And millions of acres of land were given to railroad companies "to pay their debts" and by all the arguments that I have heard here that is not a rightful constitutional use by YOUR standards. Or in the typical right wing way is it okay to give money to corporate America but not your fellow citizens in need?

Linda, I don't give a rat's arse if you do take offense with "Manifest Destiny", I was not responsible for coining the term. GEEEZUS, you sound like a black wanting "repartition payment". Hell, maybe you are black and wanting "repartition money" from both ancestral lines. Wanting money for suffering someone else endured. And Linda, unlike yours, my standards are based on truth, honesty, fairness and the Constitution. And for you to claim or imply anything other than that is a devious, dishonest act on your part.

lindaredtail wrote:SamCogar actually I am not a factual reference. I was born premature and had great reading difficulties when I was young. My father sent me to a neighborhood library (Where I grew up each neighborhood had a library above the local fire station) and I learned with the aid of the librarian to be a good reader.

HORSEPUCKY.

Linda, all good readers .......... are also good writers, ........ and you don't write worth a damn relative to spelling and punctuation. And your father should have sent you to school to "learn", not to a frigging library.

lindaredtail wrote:SamCogar My daughter and I could not afford to travel to Canada or Mexico for health care. ................ I gave up my career which I always had a good one to care for her. ................ I have lived also in several rural places including Alaska and traveled extensively in the U.S. visiting Indian reservations, ..... Ozark mountain communities, ect. As I said I have been in WV in the past.

Linda, I won't even ask what that "good career" was, ..... but I will ask .... just why you associated West Virginia with ...... rural places, ... Indian reservations, ... and Ozark mountain communities, etc.?

Linda, was that just to let us ignorant Hillbillies know that ..... YOU KNOW and are familiar with ....... and have sympathy for ......... the gawd awful living conditions and other socio-economic troubles and problems that are rampart here in the hills.

Then Linda, on Page 10 you posted this which I quoted in my post, to wit:

SamCogar wrote:

lindaredtail wrote:Aaron and SamCogar. The two of you are a riot. I am chuckling myself. Let's see Bush has been there 7 1/2 years. He "won" two elections in a very questionable manner. But Jay Rockefeller has been there over 20. Right? I am afraid that argument doesn't fly. You should have had him out if what you say is the truth but it isn't. My understanding is that he is popular and well-liked and Robert Byrd (the elder statesman) is highly respected. So you can YADA YADA YADA until the fiery pit freezes and that doesn't change it.

So Linda, youse dun thunk I spoke untruths about Jay baby, huh.

Here Linda Lou, ....... read his bio.

Therein Linda, you absolutely, positively called me a liar, ...... and I acted kindly to your dastardly, devious, dishonest accusation ...... by merrily calling you "Linda Lou" ......... but "you dun shidt in your nest" ....... and no longer deserve very much respect from me, ......... because I now have you figured out.

.

ohio county wrote:West Virginia nurses are retiring to accept six figure jobs in California. They fly out, work a four day shift, live in a hospital-owned apartment rent-free, and fly home every weekend.

And people ask why healthcare costs are so outrageous.