Obama's "Appalachian Problem"

by shermangeneral Sun May 18, 2008 8:31 am

http://www.dailyyonder.com/

I started to post this under the other discussion about us being ignorant racists for preferring Clinton over Obama.

But decided it might merit its own space.

But if Obama is gonna win they are going to have to flesh out their campaign into something other than don't be a racist vote for me.

Come on down and spend some time.

Maybe go ground hog huntin'....

Get a 4 wheeler and come riding.

etc.

by lindaredtail Sun May 18, 2008 8:41 am

I hate to say this but I was one of the people who went on Obama's website and left a message that he needed to come to WV. There were many who did and he came back for one visit which is far from enough. Another hard political reality is that sometimes they go where they believe or analysts say is strategic. WV wasn't for him. He didn't have enough time to overcome the poll numbers. The primaries in IN and NC carried more delegates so to the campaign it made more sense to be there than in WV. He paid a price for it, and hopefully he will return and spend some time there and in Kentucky doing all those things you just wrote about. Now my question to you is would you give him a chance if he did that or is your post just air?

by shermangeneral Sun May 18, 2008 9:44 am

I think probably his handlers made the conscious decision it would be easier to marginalize our vote and brand us as racist than to come here and compete.

Yes.

If he came here and took an interest.

(and started tossing bones.)

He wants to brand himself as the reincarnation of JFK.

But JFK did not sit up there in Mass. and say them hillbilly ignorant protestants wont vote for a Catholic like me.

See what I mean?

And he should tell his supporters to shut the hell up and quit calling us backwoods racists.

by lindaredtail Sun May 18, 2008 9:57 am

ShermanGeneral I think that there is only one ignorant person here and it isn't you. I think Hillary was also a lot involved in how West Virginians were portrayed and then the media did what it always does and ran with it. I am glad that you would give him a chance and that in itself shows you are not like how WV was portrayed. JFK was fearless and went everywhere. Not too many politicians are like that any longer. And I think part of it is because of what happened to JFK and RFK. They did say on Meet the Press this morning that a lot of people are concerned for Barack Obama's safety. I myself was on another forum when someone threatened his life. I don't know how much those types of issues play into things either. On both sides there will always be those yelling racism. It does still exist in America.

by shermangeneral Sun May 18, 2008 10:08 am

Well Lindaredtail is yours a given name or have you adopted it like I adopted Sherman?

Do you prefer to be called the whole name or is a shorter version ok?

Like some call me sherm?

Why do you suppose the Obama camp calls us backward racists?

Do you acknowledge it might be a calculated strategy to gain votes elsewhere?

And marginalize our votes?

I have acknowledged that my guy Edwards is a politician like the rest.

So can't you bring yourself to do the same with Obama?

by lindaredtail Sun May 18, 2008 10:40 am

Sherm (if that is okay) my given name is Linda. Some people call me Lin. You can shorten it if you like. The redtail if for my favorite bird. I do believe absolutely that there is a calculated strategy. I don't particularly like it. But do you utterly reject the candidate? If he himself had come out with the Wright style rhetoric I would reject him. Wright believes that America injured him and other African-Americans. I was young when all the Civil Rights stuff was going on and I don't pretend to understand older African-American's continued animosity. And Obama is a politician just like the rest. Will someone come along who isn't? I would love to see it in my lifetime. But I'm not holding my breath.

by shermangeneral Sun May 18, 2008 11:00 am

"... I do believe absolutely that there is a calculated strategy. I don't particularly like it. But do you utterly reject the candidate? ..."

No I do not utterly reject the candidate.

I am pleased to see your acknowledgement.

I suppose manipulation of public opinion is part of the price we pay for making our politicians dependent upon public opinion.

But politics, like most of life, is controlled by those who show up and participate.

I just get perturbed when people get all starry-eyed and think their guy does not do that stuff.

So my opinion of your opinion just shot way up. Very Happy

by lindaredtail Sun May 18, 2008 11:27 am

Thanks. I have a good opinion of you too. I am sorry actually that John Edwards has not done better. He says he is not interested in the VP. I like the idea that he tries to address disparity. He may be rich now but he wasn't always. His description of his father reminds me of mine. Two or three jobs to help his kids. Always tired. My Dad used to fall asleep reading the newspaper he was so tired. But Obama worshippers disturb me as much as they do other people as do the Bush worshippers disturb me. These people are human with character flaws just like the rest of us. Not one of them is perfect. Even McCain with some of his lobbyist ties coming out and Cindy's connection to Sudan is showing he isn't criticism proof. Which is part of the reason that he was chosen I think. That most people thought it would be difficult to find things to criticize. I think that sometimes the person becomes the catalyst for something that becomes larger than themselves. My hope is that Obama will be that catalyst for the American people.

by shermangeneral Sun May 18, 2008 11:45 am

Well Lindaredtail it is maybe an Appalachian myth so to speak but it used to be that most households in southern WV had three pictures on the wall.

Jesus, JFK, and John L Lewis.

So like I said Obama could come to wv and bring a box of bones and he will do fine.

by lindaredtail Sun May 18, 2008 11:57 am

I hope he comes but not just with bones. With an honest sincere attitude and a desire to get to know the people of WV and Kentucky for that matter. It would do him good and the people of WV good. It is just possible that there have been misunderstandings on both sides. Him thinking he couldn't do well there and WV believing that he couldn't identify with them. I know that only .2% of WV is minority which is a very small number which means there really aren't even pockets of minorities in the cities where you usually find them. Highly educated African-Americans like him used to be an exception but now here and in places like Chicago and California it is very common. Many now live in suburbs as well where it used to be significantly white. Sometimes different cultures can keep people separated. When I was young a friend of mine was an African-American. She was considered intellectually a genius. Today she is a reptile expert and travels showing people snakes and other reptiles. Many people for some reason didn't like her but she was very nice. I think Obama is also nice. I wish as I said that he would spend time in WV, Kentucky and the other states where he isn't well known.

by ziggy Sun May 18, 2008 11:57 am

shermangeneral wrote: Why do you suppose the Obama camp calls us backward racists?

Sherm, I believe that we actually are backwards racists- and I have thought so for years- for decades. So why deny it? Why take, or even pretend to take, such offense just because we are reminded of it?

Here's just a touch of West Virginia sentiment about Obama that WV Public Radio broadcast last week. A nice lady named Cindy, from Upshur County, sent some of us this link yesterday:

Racial, religious prejudice hurt Obama in WV

Senator Barack Obama suffered his biggest defeat yet in West Virginia’s primary election Tuesday, and the state’s image is taking a hit because of interviews like this:

Daniels: Well, it’s his name that messes me up, that Muslim name. Them Muslims, they’re a terrorist, buddy, they almost want to be a terrorist.
Sale : Barack Obama is actually Christian.
Daniels: Yeah, he says he is…

Studio lead 2: That’s James Daniels of Logan County talking earlier this month with reporter Anna Sale. Reporters found lots of voters like Daniels, who believe Obama is some sort of “secret Muslim,” despite all evidence to the contrary. Race was another big factor in the primary. In exit polls, one in five white voters said race played a role their decision – and more than 80 percent of those supported Clinton. (bolding added by Ziggy)

The Democratic primary shined a spotlight onto West Virginia -- and what it revealed isn’t pretty. Scott Finn and Anna Sale report.

Finn: First, there’s his middle name.

Mosley: Barack Hussein Obama. They don’t like for us to say his middle name, but it is his name.

Finn: Voters like Peggy Mosley of Logan County keep bringing it up -- even Obama supporters, like this young woman at an Obama rally in Beckley two months ago.

Woman at rally: And I’ve also heard people make comments about you and your name and stuff like that. And my personal opinion, regardless of your name, I think you’d be a great president of this country.

Finn: Obama grabbed the opportunity to make a point:

Obama: That’s a great question. First of all, let me clear something up, because there are so many rumors flying around. Let’s be clear about this. I’m a Christian, and I pray to Jesus Christ our Savior. And I’ve been doing it for many, many years. Never been another religion, so when people send around e-mails, all they’re trying to do is the usual political nonsense. And I think that is something people should be very clear about.

Finn: So Obama says he’s not a Muslim, he was never a Muslim. Every reputable news organization says the same. But that’s not what the some e-mails say. They claim that Obama is really a Muslim because his Kenyan father was. Yes, his Kenyan father was born a Muslim --- but by the time Obama was born, he no longer practiced Islam and besides, he exited Obama’s life when he was two.

The e-mails also say Obama attended a “radical Madrassa” when he and his mother lived in Indonesia. Actually, he spent one year at a local public school, and three years at a Catholic one. But none of that matters to voters like Martin Hunt, a disabled coal miner from Logan County speaking here to reporter Anna Sale.

Hunt: There’s no way under the heavens I’d vote for Obama, because of his beliefs. I’m a born again Christian, and he’s of the Muslim faith or whatever.
From what I understand, he don’t believe in God, and we don’t need nobody to ruin our country who don’t believe in God.
Sale : He’s actually Christian.
Hunt: Well, he says he is, but…
Sale : You don’t believe him.
Hunt: There’s been some things come up, sort of put doubts in our minds.

Finn: Comments like this one helped West Virginia make “The Daily Show” on Comedy Central Wednesday night. Here’s host Jon Stewart:

Stewart: But it would be obviously simplistic to suggest that this is just about race.
Young woman: He’s a Muslim, and that has a lot to do with it.
Older woman: And I don’t like the Hussein thing. I’ve had enough of Hussein.
Stewart: I think now I understand West Virginia’s state slogan: West Virginia, no interviews please.

Finn: But it’s no laughing matter for Muslims like Dr. Faisal Khan of Charleston.

Khan: So to put it bluntly, how does it make me feel as a West Virginian Muslim when I hear people accuse him, accuse him of being a Muslim, as if that is an accusation? I find it hurtful and I find it downright ignorant.

Finn: Khan says the animosity he hears in these interviews doesn’t match with his own experience in West Virginia.

Khan: I would have to say I was surprised. Because I have lived in West Virginia for the last eight years, and I have experienced the warmth and generosity of the people of West Virginia. They may not know a lot about me or where I come from or my religion. But everyone I have every met has made an effort to get to know me and my family. And I know all my Muslim friends have had pretty much the same experience.

Finn: But it’s not just religion at issue. There’s also race.

Exit polls from Tuesday show that 22% of voters admitted that race was a factor in their decision. For 8% of voters, race was the most important factor. And almost all those voters went for Clinton. Sometimes, voters say that they aren’t racist – but their friends and neighbors are. Here’s Anna Sale again talking to Brian Blankenship, a Logan County barber.

Blankenship: Well they’re saying Hillary, and if Hillary don’t, they’re saying McCain.
Sale : So they don’t like Obama
Blankenship: No
Sale : And what are the reasons
Blankenship: I’d say because he’s black, most of them.

Finn: And sometimes, voters have no problem saying it themselves.

Cooper: You know I didn’t vote for no colored.
Sale: Who did you vote for?
Cooper: What’s her name?
Sale : Clinton.
Cooper: Clinton, yeah.

Finn: That’s Morris Cooper, an 80-year-old man from Lincoln County. In all these cases, the voters weren’t asked about race – they brought it up themselves.

None of this surprises William Turner. He grew up in Harlan County, Kentucky, and is now chair of Appalachian Studies at Berea College. He says there’s no one single factor that explains Obama’s trouble with voters in Appalachia. It’s his race, it’s his name, it’s his upbringing in far-off Indonesia and Hawaii. And Obama’s message of change, which is so popular elsewhere, doesn’t resonate in a region that resists change.

Turner: How often I heard it said, Nobody likes change but a baby with a dirty diaper. So this kind of change is maybe just a little too much for people to absorb.

Finn: Some people think Obama can turn these attitudes around if he spends more time in West Virginia. In 1960, John F. Kennedy crisscrossed the state for three weeks, and even went down into a coal mine. It paid off – the mostly Protestant state helped select the nation’s first Catholic president. But Turner says Obama has a much tougher job than Kennedy.

Turner: I don’t think Barack could have in the short time he had change these long-standing stereotypes of black people or Appalachia. So what we need is just more education, more interaction, people getting to know each other better. And if he did nothing else but held up a mirror so we see ourselves better than we did last week, that’s good that he did that.

Finn: West Virginians, and other people in Appalachia, complain a lot about unfair stereotypes. But in this case, Turner says we have no one but ourselves to blame.

For West Virginia Public Broadcasting, I’m Scott Finn in Charleston.

http://www.wvpubcast.org/newsarticle.aspx?id=2052

by lindaredtail Sun May 18, 2008 12:08 pm

I think that there are lots of places that you can find racists. Even here in the Northeast you still find them. They also found racism as a part of the primaries in PA and IN. In Indiana I guess there was an issue with incidents involving campaign workers. It is really too bad. But there are good people in WV. Some of it I think is just not knowing about other races. In that case I also think the race being discriminated against should make an effort to be better understood. I think he should have spent more time in WV.

by ziggy Sun May 18, 2008 12:15 pm

And here's the link to the audio. But it probably will not work well with dial-up internet service.

http://www.wvpbmedia.com/news/2008/0516Obamarace.mp3

by shermangeneral Sun May 18, 2008 12:17 pm

Well zig I hate to say but you sound like Sam when you resort to anecdotal evidence like that to make a point.

You think those sophisticated places up north dont have ignorant people too?

by lindaredtail Sun May 18, 2008 12:20 pm

Thanks Ziggy I might try it. Here they like you to bundle the services. Phone Internet and cable tv. So to get the High-speed costs over 100 dollars per month in a lot of places. So I have dialup.

by ziggy Sun May 18, 2008 12:29 pm

shermangeneral wrote:Well zig I hate to say but you sound like Sam when you resort to anecdotal evidence like that to make a point.

Well Sherm, I take the information anywhere I can find it- "anecdotal" or otherwise. And what better source is there than straight from the voters' mouths? And I have known WV Public Radio's Anna Sale since she was a little girl- went to church with her and her parents. I consider the interviews she conducts to be more than "anecdotal" eviodence.

You think those sophisticated places up north dont have ignorant people too?

Well I don't know much about sophistication and "sophisticated places" up north, nor anywhere else. But like I said last week while you were probably on the road- it is one of Americas worst kept but most denied secrets, that America is a racist nation. The difference between Appalachia and some of the rest of the nation is that many Appalachians are proud of it- of their racism.

You are a learned man who tries to be candid, Sherm. So tell me, what is the point in denying our obvious racism?

by shermangeneral Sun May 18, 2008 12:41 pm

Zig I am not denying racism.

I am defending Appalachia and WV and saying that the so-called sophisticated critics on their hi-horse are no less racist.

Why are you denying that the Obama crowd is conniving to keep the issue going for political reasons?

by lindaredtail Sun May 18, 2008 12:47 pm

I just feel badly that there is so much of it still in America. I always ask the question why and I never get an answer. When we lived in Missouri (southwest- Ashcroft and Bond country) we saw a lot of it. I mean personally you saw it. In southeastern Oklahoma in a restaurant we saw a waitress refuse to wait on a table full of native americans. I had never seen it so overtly before and I was shocked. In Missouri I had a friend who was a great person to me. But she had come from an all white town. I asked what if an African American wanted to live there? She said that they wouldn't be allowed to. That shocked me as well. I still try to think the best of people when I can. I have hope that the majority of Americans will be able to overcome racist feelings in this election even if he doesn't win maybe it is the beginning of a new and better day. Perhaps that is too optomistic. In some ways I am a true cynic but on this subject I try not to be. I might have to go for awhile. Someone is trying to hack my computer. So far they haven't succeeded in getting in.

by ziggy Sun May 18, 2008 1:17 pm

shermangeneral wrote:Zig I am not denying racism. I am defending Appalachia and WV

From what? Again, if we are ignorant and racist, what is wrong with recognizing it?

and saying that the so-called sophisticated critics on their hi-horse are no less racist.

Who said that they are sophisticated? But yes, I agree that they are no less racist.

Why are you denying that the Obama crowd is conniving to keep the issue going for political reasons?

I am not denying it. What I am saying is that it is good that we recognize and face up to our racism- whether pointed out by a political campaign, or confirmed by election results and by radio interviews with voters, or by all three within the same week.

by lindaredtail Sun May 18, 2008 1:58 pm

There are also some articles about it that Obama tried to actually not draw attention to some of the racist stuff that happened in IN. Did you know that at least one of his campaign offices was seriously vandalized? That some of his workers were given a really bad time both on the telephone and in person? It was downplayed when they could have made a big deal of it. None of it came out until after the IN primary and there are police reports that verify it.

by **Stephanie** Sun May 18, 2008 3:56 pm

OK so yesterday I was speaking to an acquaintance of mine about the election. She is a Kentucky native, but lived all over the country. She has resided in WV for over 20 years and is in her mid 60's. We were talking about the primary (she is a Democrat) and she told me she voted for Obama. That she loathes and despises Hillary and would have left the party to vote for Ron Paul if he were doing better because that is who she truly believes should be our next prez.

Well here comes the good part...to the best of my imperfect memory this is what she said:

She's talking about how she just couldn't believe people are still voting for "that liar". "Ducking sniper fire in Bosnia with her little girl with her. That's not something you get confused about or forget. She had her only child with her. If she lied about that she'll lie about anything. I must have gotten 15 phone calls from her camp in the 3 days leading up to the election. I finally told one of them I wasn't voting for Hillary and when asked why I said because I remember what she and her husband did when they were in the White House before. It was shameful, a disgrace......and all those pardons for money and looting the White House china and silverware. That girl said, "I see you have your reasons"."

So I made mention of her calling WVian's basically racist idiots to which she replied, "Well at least that's the truth. I've lived here long enough to say this state is loaded with racist idiots."

If you knew how sweet, kind and gentle this woman is. Just the thought of Hillary was enough to practically make her foam at the mouth. Yeah, the Democrats had better go with Barry Obama. Members of her own party, middle class working women of her own party, can't stomach the thought of her.

I was a bit stunned at her reaction. She made me laugh though with this state being full of racist idiots.

by Aaron Sun May 18, 2008 6:13 pm

Why must racism and ignorance go hand in hand?

by **SheikBen** Sun May 18, 2008 7:41 pm

ziggy wrote:
shermangeneral wrote:Well zig I hate to say but you sound like Sam when you resort to anecdotal evidence like that to make a point.

Well Sherm, I take the information anywhere I can find it- "anecdotal" or otherwise. And what better source is there than straight from the voters' mouths? And I have known WV Public Radio's Anna Sale since she was a little girl- went to church with her and her parents. I consider the interviews she conducts to be more than "anecdotal" eviodence.

You think those sophisticated places up north dont have ignorant people too?

Well I don't know much about sophistication and "sophisticated places" up north, nor anywhere else. But like I said last week while you were probably on the road- it is one of Americas worst kept but most denied secrets, that America is a racist nation. The difference between Appalachia and some of the rest of the nation is that many Appalachians are proud of it- of their racism.

You are a learned man who tries to be candid, Sherm. So tell me, what is the point in denying our obvious racism?

He who convicts the whole world convicts only one.

by SamCogar Mon May 19, 2008 11:57 am

Aaron wrote:Why must racism and ignorance go hand in hand?

It's a "family thing" ..... ya know.

by Aaron Mon May 19, 2008 9:41 pm

It's not only a hillbilly thing. The biggest racist I've ever met in my life were black.

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