We told you so- and it's confirmed yet again

May 28 (Bloomberg) -- Former White House press secretary Scott McClellan says in a memoir that President George W. Bush manipulated public opinion through a ``political propaganda campaign'' to justify going to war in Iraq.

McClellan, a longtime Bush loyalist from his Texas days, also writes that the news media largely failed to critically examine the administration's justifications for invading Iraq, according to a copy of the book obtained by Bloomberg News. The book is scheduled to be sold in bookstores next week.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=alT5b8FoZP5I&refer=home

WE TOLD YOU SO!!!!

I almost never watch those morning news shows. However I did happen to see Brian Williams, Katie Couric, and Charlie Gibson on the Today Show. Katie Couric believes that by and large the press was too easy on the administration. All three agreed there was a LOT of pressure from the administration. Gibson alone seemed to think the news media "did its job".

If this man's convictions were so strong that he beleived the President was passing on 'propaganda' through him, why did he comply? Why wouldn't he quit in protest?

And what are his motivations for coming out with this book now?

You didn't tell me anything Frank as I was opposed to the Iraq invasion from the beginning for logical and sane reasons. But this book by this man proves nothing. This is a man that continued in his job for 3 years AFTER the invasion giving daily briefs as the voice of the adminstration and now, after he is gone, comes out with a book (motive) in which he now tells the truth.

BULLSHIT.

If he wanted to 'prove' anything, he would have quit, very vocally and stated his reasons publically with ZERO financial gains. He wouldn't have worked for 3 MORE YEARS then quit to write a book to come out during the Presidents final year in office.

If he wanted to 'prove' anything, he would have quit, very vocally and stated his reasons publically with ZERO financial gains. He wouldn't have worked for 3 MORE YEARS then quit to write a book to come out during the Presidents final year in office.

I knew an old fellow who had been a Baptist preacher for 40 years. One day he woke up and realized that he didn't believe a damn bit of what he had preached all those years. He devoted the rest of his life to promoting enlightenment and the free mind- the right to be free from other people's Godly (unGodly) propaganda- no matter how threatening with damnation and hell-fire it might be.

I can see McClellan and a whole herd of other Bush apologists realizing that they don't believe a word of what they had been saying- even if they ever believed it. It is not unlike the many promoters of Lyndon Johnson's war in Vietnam finally realized the folly of it and recanted of their previous propaganda and blind patronage to misguided loyalty.

Same old same old.

No wonder this country is in the shape it's in when we have people with so little personal convictions working and running our government. I have much more respect for the Robert Byrd's that had the conviction to stand up and so NO then I do for the 29 other democratic senators and the "Bush apologist" that roll with the tide and go with the polls.

It would have been nice if he'd passed a little of that inside knowledge on to the rest of us. He's just in this for the $$ now.

ziggy wrote:I can see McClellan and a whole herd of other Bush apologists realizing that they don't believe a word of what they had been saying...

I thought about this statement while I was out riding and you know what Frank, you're dead wrong, as wrong as you've ever been about anything in your life, and that's saying a lot.

Do you need or want conservatives who believe the invasion was justified 'apologizing' for you?

Whether you like it or not, George Bush believed what he believed in 2001/2002/2003. He took the information from NIE's from every major intelligence agency in the world, all of which agreed by the way, and made his case to Congress. Almost 80% of the Congress and Americans in general believed as he did then and gave him their approval for his actions.

Like it or not and even though it has been suggested and accused so much that many think it is true, it has not been proven that 1) he was wrong or 2) the he purposefully mislead and lied to accomplish what he did. If there was proof of either, he would be UNDER the jail by now. The fact that he is STILL the President of the United States of America only proves that.

Yes, he made mistakes, some of which he has accepted responsibility, but he still believes the same thing today that he did in 2001/2002/2003.

So no sir, he doesn't need anyone to apologize for him. The ONLY people that need apologizing for are the sorry ones, like this joke here who is only in if for the money now, who's convictions weren't strong enough for them to stand for what they believed 5 to 6 years ago.

You can apologize for HRC, Edwards, Kerry and the rest of the pathetic congress that now say they were duped even though they had access to the EXACT SAME information the President did, but not the President. He did HIS job!!!

Like him or not, right or wrong, at least he had the courage to stand for what he believed in.

ziggy wrote:Same old same old.

And the only same old same old is the pathetic bunch that got 'duped' because they were to freaking stupid to do their job.

Aaron wrote:And the only same old same old is the pathetic bunch that got 'duped' because they were to freaking stupid to do their job.

And who were they?

And who duped them?

But yes, it is pathetic that they were duped by a dupe.

Do you need or want conservatives who believe the invasion was justified 'apologizing' for you?

Hell no. They don't need to apologize for me.

Because I TOLD YOU SO- back when it was first happening.

What they need to apologize for being Bush's lap dog.

So no sir, he doesn't need anyone to apologize for him. The ONLY people that need apologizing for are the sorry ones, like this joke here who is only in if for the money now, who's convictions weren't strong enough for them to stand for what they believed 5 to 6 years ago.

So a guy who realizes he was once misguided- whether by displaced loyalty or by sheer ignorance and from being duped- should not come clean because people might buy his book?

Wow. The excuses for perpetuating a fraud know no bounds.

ziggy wrote:Wow. The excuses for perpetuating a fraud know no bounds.

As does the sad sorry excuses for those without convictions or backbone.

ziggy wrote:So a guy who realizes he was once misguided- whether by displaced loyalty or by sheer ignorance and from being duped- should not come clean because people might buy his book?

Any good investigator will tell you, first and foremost, find the motive. Even Stephanie sees it here Frank. Why can't you? You seem smarter then that.

Aaron,

I agree with you that McClellan is doing this for the money. I agree with you he is pond scum for not speaking up 6 years ago.

These statements on the other hand:

Like it or not and even though it has been suggested and accused so much that many think it is true, it has not been proven that 1) he was wrong or 2) the he purposefully mislead and lied to accomplish what he did. If there was proof of either, he would be UNDER the jail by now. The fact that he is STILL the President of the United States of America only proves that.

Yes, he made mistakes, some of which he has accepted responsibility, but he still believes the same thing today that he did in 2001/2002/2003.

Oh man, now they would be hilarious if the results weren't so tragic.

You are thoroughly convinced you "knew the truth" and you were right 6 years ago and the POS, Congress & the majority of US citizens were wrong. You regularly point to my foolishly believing this administration as proof I'm an idiot. Yet you think it's admirable that despite all the evidence (proof) to the contrary, GWB still thinks he was justified in invading Iraq.

You're a piece of work.

It does take a certain amount of courage to admit you were wrong on such a grand scale. Too bad the W doesn't have that kind of courage. Or was he just lying to us all along? Scotty McClellan, worm that he is, avows Bush was lying all along. Gee whiz, pardon me for not being tickled pink.....with either of them.

I said I didn't agree with GWB's reasons. I never said he was wrong. I understand why he felt the way he did and what he based his case on. EVERY NIE in the world said the same thing. Iraq was either in possession or close to gaining possession of WMD's and given Sadaam Hussein’s history, would likely use them if given the opportunity.

Congress gave him the authority to use force after the read the same intelligence information the adminstration did.

The fact that US forces didn't find anything in the ensuing months doesn't mean they were never there or that Hussein wasn't trying to acquire them.

As I said, it has not been proven that GWB was wrong or that he purposefully lied or mislead anyone to get us involved in Iraq. If there was proof, he’d be under the jail don’t you think!!!

ziggy wrote:I knew an old fellow who had been a Baptist preacher for 40 years. One day he woke up and realized that he didn't believe a damn bit of what he had preached all those years.

And to mimic Aaron's comment of above.

BULLSHIT.

And Zig, you ought to be washing your hands after pulling that one out of you know where ........ or you should have told that ex-Baptist Preacher he was "lying through his teeth" when he told you that.

If in fact he did confess said, ............. then he was just doing so to "scam" the public out of more of their money ....... because he knew he couldn't continue doing it as a retired Minister.

.

No, I do not think so, Aaron. He is one of the most powerful men in the world. He has the power, and the means, to avoid full public disclosure of his bad acts. He is employing those right now.

Seems to me that lately new presidents pardon past presidents for crimes they may have committed while in office. If our next president continues this practice, he's never going to be held accountable.

ziggy wrote:

Do you need or want conservatives who believe the invasion was justified 'apologizing' for you?

Hell no. They don't need to apologize for me.

Because I TOLD YOU SO- back when it was first happening.

What they need to apologize for being Bush's lap dog.

And what about what I was telling you "was going to happen" with the price of crude oil ...... and the continued exacerbated fighting, killing and jockeying for "power and control" of the Middle East -------- back when it was first happening?

Zig, when are you going to apologize for being a "barking lap dog" of the Bush Hating crowd?

When the price of gasoline gets to $8/gal ..... and food and other commodities increase another 50% in cost?

Someone ought to wish me in you ever doing that.

.

Stephanie wrote:
Oh man, now they would be hilarious if the results weren't so tragic.

You are thoroughly convinced you "knew the truth" and you were right 6 years ago and the POS, Congress & the majority of US citizens were wrong.

Steph, I'm curious, ..... just why are you attributing so much brilliance and intellect to the POS, Congress & the majority of US citizens when it involves the "Invasion of Iraq" ............ but you consider the POS, Congress & the majority of US citizens dumber and more incompetent than a "box of rocks" when it involves electing Ron Paul as POTUS?

Stephanie wrote:Yet you think it's admirable that despite all the evidence (proof) to the contrary, GWB still thinks he was justified in invading Iraq.

Steph, where is the evidence (proof) that the No Smoking Laws have prevented any cancer deaths?

Where is the evidence (proof) that the DUI Laws have prevented any vehicle deaths?

Stephanie wrote:It does take a certain amount of courage to admit you were wrong on such a grand scale.

Well now, it is really hard to be good at what you do and accomplish great thing when ......... the POS, Congress & the majority of US citizens ...... are fighting you on all fronts at everything you attempt to do.

When their gas tanks and their bellies keep getting emptier and emptier ....... we will surely be hearing more of their hunger pains.

.

Sam,

The President & Congress have perpetrated a fraud on the American people that has resulted in the deaths of thousands of US citizens, and tens of thousands of Iraqis. Iraq is in disarray and suicide bombings, a previously unheard of event in Iraq, are now practically a daily staple. This fraud has displaced hundreds of thousands, caused a dramatic increase in anti-American sentiment, and my grandchildren will still be paying for it.

The American people (such as myself) did not have access to all the info that Congress had. I doubt that Congress had access to all the information Bush had.

I'm actually extremely pleased with the success Ron Paul has had. He is losing the battle for the Republican nomination. That doesn't mean he has lost the war. A lot of people have had their eyes, hearts, and minds opened to the reality of our situation by Rep. Paul and his campaign. That is a great victory, imho.

I think the American people have not voted for Ron Paul in greater numbers for the same exact reason so many of them initially supported invading Iraq. The MSM isn't doing their job. They aren't thoroughly investigating the facts and they aren't accurately reporting them. Ron Paul, despite his great personal and public achievements in life, despite his superior intellect and incredible integrity, isn't a great orator.

Stephanie wrote:Sam,

I think the American people have not voted for Ron Paul in greater numbers for the same exact reason so many of them initially supported invading Iraq. The MSM isn't doing their job.

Well now I haven't yet figured out what the MSM is so I will continue assuming it is the media, ....... so ........

AAAAAAAAAWWWWWW Steph, ........ GIMME A BREAK.

The media is doing their job quite well, ..... super duper well as a matter of fact.

The public was:

1. told to support the war

2. told not to support the war

3. told to hate Bush

4. told to vote in Democrats

5. told to ignore Ron Paul

6. told to support Hillary

7. now being told to support Obama

8. etc.

And they did/do what they were/are told.

Steph, and the media is still doing their job concerning Iraq, ...... they are still only reporting the "BBN" (Bush Bad News).

Thus, the MSM only reports the BBN.

.

MSM = mainstream media

You're a pretty sharp fella'.

News agencies are supposed to investigate and report fairly and accurately. They don't do that. They cover what they want, when they want, and portray issues how they want.

After our nation was attacked by a group of cowardly thugs, our entire nation got caught up in chest-beating bravado some call patriotism. The MSM was too. Patriotism can be wonderful when it unites us toward noble goals and worthwhile efforts. It shouldn't be used as an excuse for stumbling through life with blinders on.

Stephanie wrote:MSM = mainstream media

You're a pretty sharp fella'.

Well, it kuda ben "mostly stupid media" or "MicroSoft Media" or "mainly socialist media".

Stephanie wrote:News agencies are supposed to investigate and report fairly and accurately. They don't do that. They cover what they want, when they want, and portray issues how they want.

HA, you can only see that happening in the old movies on AMC, the Western Channel, etc.

The News nowdays is primarily a commodity and a Political tool and the Publisher determines "what is published". And if an employee doesn't "report" what the Publisher likes ....... then they are no longer an employee.

Take Tucker Carlton fer instance, one of the most honest persons that was on TV .......... and MSNBC cancelled his show and canned him ...... while keeping Keith Oberman who is &X%@?#! and Z+&#$?%X*.

Stephanie wrote:After our nation was attacked by a group of cowardly thugs, our entire nation got caught up in chest-beating bravado some call patriotism. The MSM was too. Patriotism can be wonderful when it unites us toward noble goals and worthwhile efforts. It shouldn't be used as an excuse for stumbling through life with blinders on.

Well you can bet your sweet pattootie the MSM was too.

They had to CTA to keep the public from figuring and/or finding out that the 9-11 thingy would not have happened if the MSM had not been ...... "covering what they wanted, when they wanted and portray issues how they wanted them portrayed".

They CTA by rallying the public to support both the invasion of Afganistan and Iraq, ........ then they slowly turned back to "bite like a snake" by the time Bush announced "Mission Accomplished".

GEEEZUS, ya didn't read or hear the MSM bitching, complaining and badmouthing Bush for giving away MILLION$ n' MILLION$ to the relatives of the 9-11 victims, ...... did ya.

.

Take Tucker Carlton fer instance, one of the most honest persons that was on TV ...

There are other schools of thought on that. On Crossfire, he was the king of partisan hackery.

SamCogar wrote:

ziggy wrote:I knew an old fellow who had been a Baptist preacher for 40 years. One day he woke up and realized that he didn't believe a damn bit of what he had preached all those years.

And to mimic Aaron's comment of above.

BULLSHIT.

Sam, his was from up your way. His name was Floyd "Jack" Waldrop. After he retired from preaching he settled down in Lewis County- and was the Circuit Clerk of Lewis County for a while, as I recall. He spells it all out in his little noticed paperback memoirs which he styled, "Floyd and me", I believe it was called, subtitled "The House that Jack Built". I have a copy of that around here somewhere. If I can find it I'll quote you a few paragraphs of it. It is exactly as I said it was, in his own words.

And before you get on your high horse about "he wrote a sensational book to get rich", he published only 100 copies of it- for distribtion to friends only. And he refused all offers of $$$ from it, including from my father, who offered to help him even offset expenses of it- and stubbornly refused to concede to those who insisted that he re-print and offer it for sale through Humanist outlets. He reasoned that if it became about money and not about his life story, that it would lose its intended purpose.

"Floyd and me" represented the dichotomy netween Floyd the Humanist and Floyd the Baptist preacher.

Floyd lived to be in his late 80s, maybe early 90s, and died about 20 years ago.

Ask some of your buddies up around Weston about ole' Floyd.

SamCogar wrote:

ziggy wrote:

Do you need or want conservatives who believe the invasion was justified 'apologizing' for you?

Hell no. They don't need to apologize for me.

Because I TOLD YOU SO- back when it was first happening.

What they need to apologize for being Bush's lap dog.

And what about what I was telling you "was going to happen" with the price of crude oil ...... and the continued exacerbated fighting, killing and jockeying for "power and control" of the Middle East -------- back when it was first happening?

Well hell Sam, even a blind man could have reasonably predicted those things 5 or 10 years ago- because they've already been going on all our lives. And in a larger sense, they've been going on for thousands of years. Are you wanting a cookie for just now catching on?