Obama resigns his church membership...

When his wife's "I hate whitey" tape comes out, do you think that he will throw her under the bus, as well?

what tape is that Terri?

shermangeneral wrote:what tape is that Terri?

You'll find out in late October, Shermy.

Well it does not seem like much of a church to me.

Just based on what we have seen from the news accounts of the spiteful attitude toward white people.

They dont seem to talk much about Jesus do they?

I guess people in that church dont realize how many white boys died and were maimed etc. to set their ancestors free do they?

I always thought churches were supposed to preach about faith, hope, love, brotherhood, etc.

If the so-called enlightened democrats actually nominate this guy McCain will clean his clock.

shermangeneral wrote:If the so-called enlightened democrats actually nominate this guy McCain will clean his clock.

Sherman, you are actually beginning to worry me with such comments.

Well Sam like I always say, "Lovin eyes never see".

Since you obviously don't love Democrats you can probably see what a mistake they are making.

The Fairy Tale continues.

SamCogar wrote:

shermangeneral wrote:If the so-called enlightened democrats actually nominate this guy McCain will clean his clock.

Sherman, you are actually beginning to worry me with such comments.

shermangeneral wrote:Well Sam like I always say, "Lovin eyes never see".

Since you obviously don't love Democrats you can probably see what a mistake they are making.

The Fairy Tale continues.

Well now Sherm, ........ THAT ........ is what has beginning to worry me.

That is the 2nd, 3rd or 4th time you have made similar contexual comments ...... which is indictive of "Your Loving Eyes" for Democrats ..... are starting to see a little better.

.

shermangeneral wrote:Well it does not seem like much of a church to me.

In a nation where freedom of religion is guaranteed by the Constitution, Sherm, what is a "church", anyway? Who should get to define what "much of a church" is, anyway?

Just based on what we have seen from the news accounts of the spiteful attitude toward white people.

And white people have earned that "spiteful attitude". And they are still earning it when they pretend that the gods of the decsendents of white slave owners is superiior to the gods of the descendents of black slaves- and which, unless I totally misunderstand, is what I see you doing here as you belittle Obama's church.

They dont seem to talk much about Jesus do they?

What did Jesus say about the descendents of 17th, 18th and 19th century slaves in America?

I guess people in that church dont realize how many white boys died and were maimed etc. to set their ancestors free do they? I always thought churches were supposed to preach about faith, hope, love, brotherhood, etc.

Why should churches be expected to preach about those things unless they can actually feel and believe them? And you seem to be one of the biggest critics of the man whose campaign is about the kinds of changes designed to help bring about faith, hope, love and brotherhood- and including the willingness to have the public discussion about these matters.

So you think mocking and ridiculing Hillary and accusing "whitey" of introducing aids to kill black people are Christlike actions/statements?

The pulpit of that church is used to promote hate and spiteful discord.

Just the opposite of what you are contending Zig.

I share your remorse over the tragic blight left on our country's soul by slavery.

Hell I even would support some sort of reparations.

But I cannot and do not support this manipulation of "white guilt" into a political platform.

shermangeneral wrote:So you think mocking and ridiculing Hillary and accusing "whitey" of introducing aids to kill black people are Christlike actions/statements?

Hillary is in politics. That comes with the territory. And she and her people have certainly heaved mountains of their own "mocking and ridiculing" of their political opponents.

As to "accusing "whitey" of introducing aids to kill black people", Obama didn't say that. And he has disavowed the specific words of the one guy who did say it. What more could we expect of him? That he separate himself from that church? Well, he has done that, too.

The pulpit of that church is used to promote hate and spiteful discord.

The pulpits of ALL churches- including my own- are used to promote hate and spiteful discord. Without the "we are angels while they are devils" breach, what would be the social need to have churches, anyway?

I share your remorse over the tragic blight left on our country's soul by slavery. Hell I even would support some sort of reparations. But I cannot and do not support this manipulation of "white guilt" into a political platform.

So what would you have us do with white guilt then? If not politically, then how would we otherwise address the social impact of white guilt, and more importantly, its underlying historical social causes?

I have no white guilt, and I refuse to pay for the sins of others. (as a Christian, I don't even intend to pay for my own sins, but that is another matter).

Well Sherm, just so you understand, I'm not trying to beat up on you here 'cause you'll be gone in a day or two and unable to answer for a few days.

It's mostly that that you are among the very few who will hold a civil discussion without breaking down and trying to insult the other guy or gal just because you can't help yourself- except in like-kind retalliation to those who do, which is OK.

Armon Ayers wrote:

shermangeneral wrote:what tape is that Terri?

You'll find out in late October, Shermy.

Oh boy!

Another October Surprise!

Well zig I think sometimes you give me too much credit.

I have all the same bad inclinations and negative proclivities everyone else has. I just pray daily that Jesus will hold my hand and walk me through and he does a pretty good job given what He has to work with.

If I can just make it thru and get to Heaven then I will even the score with this bunch....

Hi Ziggy,

You live in West Virginia, a state created during the Civil War out of the counties which either did not have slavery or did not favor the doctrine of nullification. If any state has the pedigree to "opt out" of white guilt, it is West Virginia. The industries there are coal and the collapsing steel industries, and then there is state employment and trucking. Is there some way in which we would not have coal, steel, state bureaucracy, or trucks without slaves? It is true that we owe traffic lights to an African American, who was free at the time.

My wife and I are currently living on about 33,000-34,000 dollars a year. Particularly where we live, that really is plenty to live on, but I'd like to know exactly what opportunities are afforded to me on that due to my race or ethnicity.

I have no 401K, and my IRA, which has about 1500 or so in it, came from my 6 years of work with people with developmental disabilities (a group of people who would need help with or without the odious practice of slavery).

I currently teach PoliSci part time (a discipline that goes back to before the African slave trade to the New World), scout corn fields, and help children fulfill court-ordered community service. I don't see how any of these part-time gigs has anything to do with the slave trade.

My father's family came to this country in the early 1900's, 40 years after slavery was abolished in the United States due to the 13th amendment. My mother's family dates back to the 1600's, but all but one of those who were involved in the Civil War fought for the union. One unfortunate fellow from Ohio in the brood enlisted in January and was dead by March.

I cannot see how I have in any way profited from the slave trade (my mother is a pastor in a liberal church and a bilingual school social worker, my father taught math in an inner city high school and died of a heart attack).

The money in my family (none at the moment in my hands, but it is there) comes from my two grandfathers. One of them was a mechanic who lived very frugally (no mass production of cars back in 1865 that I know of). My other grandfather, the son of a streetcar driver, scrapped and saved his way through Accounting school and got very far in a steel company that, as far as I know, didn't date back to the slave era, etiher.

Was I blessed with every advantage coming up? You betcha. Was it on the backs of slaves long dead? No, it was on the backs of my hard-working grandfathers, my long suffering grandmothers, my generous parents, and the grace of God.

Ziggy wrote:And white people have earned that "spiteful attitude". And they are still earning it when they pretend that the gods of the decsendents of white slave owners is superiior to the gods of the descendents of black slaves- and which, unless I totally misunderstand, is what I see you doing here as you belittle Obama's church.

This made me think of an episode of what is probably my favorite television show of all time, "All In the Family". Some of you must recall it.

Everyone had gone somewhere but Archie. I haven't seen this episode in a few years so some of the details are a bit hazy, but I think to visit some relative of Edith's that Archie despised. (take your pick, he hated them all) Anyhow, Archie managed to lock himself in the basement, where he found a jug of wine and proceeded to get hammered. Drunk Archie was stumbling around worrying about dying down there in the basement when a delivery man (oil maybe?) opened the bulkhead or whatever.

With sunlight shining brightly around him poor inebriated Archie in that dark basement thought that God had arrived and it was his judgement day. Archie looks up, sees "God" is a black man and says, "Geez, Lord. Forgive me, them Jefferson's was right!"

"....Ziggy wrote:
And white people have earned that "spiteful attitude". And they are still earning it when they pretend that the gods of the decsendents of white slave owners is superiior to the gods of the descendents of black slaves- and which, unless I totally misunderstand, is what I see you doing here as you belittle Obama's church. ..."

Either you do totally misunderstand or, more likely, I have not stated it well.

I do not contend or believe that my God is superior to theirs.

I contend that He is the same God.

And I further contend that it is morally wrong and repugnant to spew such vile contempt and hatred against an entire race of people from the pulpit.

I don't think that Ziggy's lumping together the "African American" church under Wright's theology is at all fair. Wright's own pronouncement of his identification with and representation for the black church is also unfair.

I have heard from several black preachers who would vehemently disagree with Wright's comments about other religions, endorsing candidates fromt he pulpit, the culture wars, etc. I would like to see the polling data that indicates that Jeremiah Wright's views on abortion, the government, gay marriage, the Bible, the culture wars, etc., are more indicative of African American sentiment or liberal white guilt.

Well, Sherm and Sheik seem to be of one mind about that "one" God philosophy- though were we to examine their respective Gods we would likely see that they are not at all the same Gods.

But either way that makes for a giant religious / social chasm among us.

I agree with Jeremiah Wright that no way was the God of the slave owner the same God as that of slave. Why? Simply because "it does not compute". And from those diverse as diverse can be 200 year old gods descend the gods we alternately curse and praise today- depending on our moods, which are usually brought about by our current plights. And our respective plights are not wholly unrelated to the circumstances of our ancestors and of their gods of two centuries ago.

So go figure.

Well zig you can contend that these guys are representing some God by railing this hate and spite against all white people.

I dont understand, but I don't need to.

But regardless if they represent some god unbeknownst to me, I thought I had you pegged as a decent compassionate fellow who would not support such hateful diatribes.

Speaking for MYSELF......

I don't support such hateful speech.

I do support the right of others to say whatever they wish, even hateful things.

I do not believe members of the clergy should be preaching politics from the pulpit. They are entitled to have their views and speak them, the same as you and me and everybody else. However, if they wish to maintain the tax exempt status and all the other perks, they need to keep their lips zipped on those topics while preaching. PERIOD!

Well zig you can contend that these guys are representing some God by railing this hate and spite against all white people.

I dont understand, but I don't need to.

But regardless if they represent some god unbeknownst to me, I thought I had you pegged as a decent compassionate fellow who would not support such hateful diatribes.

So are the gods of the descendents of slave owners not decsended from the gods of slave owners of yesteryear? Were those gods of love and peace among men, or gods of "hate and spite" and greed satiated by the labors of others?

Are the gods of descendents of slaves not descended from the gods of slaves? Gods are as gods do. More importantly, Gods are as their inventers do.

Accordingly, the gods of today's working people are not the gods of the capitalists and the bosses.

Same old same old- whether 18th century masters and slaves, or 21st century bosses and workers, their gods couldn't be different. Look at the big picture, Sherm.

Well zig it looks like this is one of the times we disagree.

You cant make up for one injustice by perpetrating another. imo.

Just like the OJ deal. We disagreed on that too.

Oh my.......

Ziggy, do you think OJ Simpson is innocent of murdering Nicole and Ron Goldman?