Maynard withdrawing from Massey case.

Aaron wrote:I have no idea what Republicans are promising as there isn't even one announced for governor yet. At least I can't find announcement of one. Do you know of any?

No one from either party has yet filed to run for governor.

But for those who might be interested, you can check here for up-to-date postings of candidate filings for all but local offices.

http://www.wvsos.com/elections/candidates/data/candidatesearch.asp

Aaron wrote:How many of those claims are from the state workers that Underwood fired when he took office?

Horrors! Did a Republican governor fire and hire state employees based on their political party affiliation? I thought that's what Democratic governors did. Silly me.

Anyway, the numbers of state employees at that time, even if they had all been fired, would have been but a small fraction of the total numbers of unemployment claims.

Were "will and pleasure" political employees even elegible for unemployment compensation in the late 1950s?

ziggy wrote:

Aaron wrote:How many of those claims are from the state workers that Underwood fired when he took office?

Horrors! Did a Republican governor fire and hire state employees based on their political party affiliation? I thought that's what Democratic governors did. Silly me.

Anyway, the numbers of state employees at that time, even if they had all been fired, would have been but a small fraction of the total numbers of unemployment claims.

Were "will and pleasure" political employees even elegible for unemployment compensation in the late 1950s?

Underwood's 1956 election as Governor of West Virginia marked the first election of a Republican to the office since 1928. Underwood oversaw the desegregation of West Virginia schools without violent confrontation at all levels and was a supporter of civil rights legislation. The previous governors since 1932 had all been Democrats. His first act as governor was to go on the new medium of television and inform every state employee that they were fired. He stated that this was the only way to destroy the corrupt "machine" system. He later advocated an organized civil service and retirement pension system. source

I wasn't around then so I have no idea how many employee's his firings constituted. Hell, I can't even find any information as to how many state employees we have now.

shermangeneral wrote:However, while we are all in a bare-it-all mode, I am sure you will agree that the republican episodes were even more underwhelming than the Democrat years.

Aaron I think this discussion preceeded your arrival on the forum, but during the first Underwood regime we had over 600,000 unemployment claims in 4 years.

And George Bush cut your flagpole down, carried it away and sold it for scrap, ...... right Shermmy.


.

Well Sam the republicans want to wrap themselves in the flag, but when old Bush wanted to make a speech in Ripley they tore the flagpole down because that was the spot they wanted to make it from.

And left the bill for replacing it up to the local people.

Bush said he would not engage in nation building too, but now we have 4,000 young American deaths to testify to that lie.

And as to fiscal sanity and a balanced budget,the Reagan and Bush administrations are responsible for about 3/4 of the total national debt.

The point being they say one thing and do another.

By any measure I can see, the Democrats have done better.

On both the National and State levels.

The same statement cannot be made with regard to Independent or third party candidates, since we have not tried that.

But the record is clear on republicans and wannabes.

ziggy wrote:

Aaron wrote:If it's your stance that little d's aren't the individuals that have been running this state in the ground for the past 70+ years Sherm, then I would submit that maybe you're not a democrat or a Democrat because ONE party is responsible for the situation we are in and what they call themselves ain't Republicans or Independants. Perhaps you should look at joining Zig in one of the loon parties Sherm as your beliefs don't seem to jive with the those of the current West Virginia democratic party.

Aaron, looking at West Virginia election campaigns the past 15 years or so, what are Republicans promising that Democratic office holders aren't already doing?

GEEEZE, so soon we forget, .......MUST BE a culturally genetic problem.

I believe Don Blankenship, a Republican, ...... was proposing "things" quite different from what the Democrats wanted or were doing.

And as usual, all you loyal fans and supporters of the elected Democrats "found problems" with everything he proposed, suggested or done ........ based soley on the fact that he was a Republican, ....... and nothing else.

It is truly sickening to listen to your all's claims that "you want change in State Government" ............. while at the same time you absolutely, positively REFUSE to "change" which Political Party controls the Legislature.

The only possible reason for such "thinking" ........ is that your culturally nurtured "mindset" prohibits you from associating the

"duties off Elected Legislators"

...... with ........

"control and operation of State Government".

A culturally nurtured "mindset" of ......... Sports Mentality.

You forever remain loyal to the WVU football Team (Party), ...... cheering and applauding when ever the WVU Players (Legislators) do their jobs and have a "winning year" and you praise the Coach (Governor) for doing a great job.

But, when ever the WVU Players (Legislators) don't do their jobs and never have a "winning year", ....... you never badmouth and berate the Team (Party), ...... you badmouth and berate the Coach (Governor) and demand that he be replaced.

"Sports Mentality" ....... fer sure.

And the only "Saving Grace" that gives you a false sense of brilliance is that all the WVU Players, ..... good, bad or mediocre, ..... have "term limits". If they are not "outted" by the Coach, ....... they are "out of there" in four (4) years max.

Even a "sports dummy" like myself knows that WVU can't possibly have a winning team, ..........reguardless of who the Coach is, ...... if all the "fielded players" are not doing their "assigned jobs".

cheers

shermangeneral wrote:Well Sam the republicans want to wrap themselves in the flag, but when old Bush wanted to make a speech in Ripley they tore the flagpole down because that was the spot they wanted to make it from.

And left the bill for replacing it up to the local people.

Bush said he would not engage in nation building too, but now we have 4,000 young American deaths to testify to that lie.

And as to fiscal sanity and a balanced budget,the Reagan and Bush administrations are responsible for about 3/4 of the total national debt.

The point being they say one thing and do another.

By any measure I can see, the Democrats have done better.

On both the National and State levels.

The same statement cannot be made with regard to Independent or third party candidates, since we have not tried that.

But the record is clear on republicans and wannabes.

Well, GEEEEEEEEZY, ...... Shermmy, ........ even I can see that, ....... that the elected WV Democrats have done better for the likes of you and your wife.

And the $24 BILLION +- in underfunded liabilities is a testament to that.

And what is even better for the likes of you and your wife ....... is that none of you are obligated to "help pay off" a single penny of that $24 BILLION +- in underfunded liabilities.

And ps Shermmy, there is no Legislative "record" on republicans and wannabes that is less than 70+ years old.

Sherman, you are like the "little boy" who is guilty of constantly stealing the "candy" out of the "candy dish" ......... but is always blaming your devious deeds on your other brothers and sisters.

But everyone knows "the likes of you are the culprits" ......... because you all always have a "pocketfull" of it.



.

deleted post

I hope Stephanie will require a higher standard here on the new forum and tell you to refrain from your favored practice of insulting those with whom you disagree.

Don't go there Sherm. Stephanie is administrator in title only. I thought I had made myself clear in the beginning I have no intention of intervening in the insults posters hurl at each other.

You're a Christian, right? I seem to recall some verse to the effect of "let he who is without sin cast the first stone". You can't make jabs at Sam for collecting the Social Security benefits to which he is entitled by calling them "transfer payments" and expect one iota of sympathy from me.

post deleted

shermangeneral wrote:Very well then.

You 'da man, Stephanie.

So we will have to just put up with his personal insults and biting the hand that feeds him.

And, by definition, Soc. Security falls into the category of "transfer payments".

As I understand it.

Well if the politicians would stop raiding the Social Security Trust Fund they woudn't quite be transfer payments now would they?

You're a smart and very capable guy, Sherm. You ought to know you can't taunt a pit bull and expect not to get bitten.

Perspective is everything, Sherm. You feel as though Sam is unfairly attacking you. I don't. I wish he would be more tactful, but I'm not his mother or his wife and I have no intention of trying to change Sam. I accept and value Sam the same way I do you, for who and what you are. I consider you both to be my friends and it is my hope my friends will work out their differences.

Keep me out of it. lol

deleted post

shermangeneral wrote:Well I have started another thread dealing specifically with the subject of transfer payments.

I was just trying to establish the parameters we are operating under.

Maybe they have been explained already, but I have been gone a lot.

There is more history here than you are aware of, and what you may see as taunting is simply a gentle reminder that transfer payments is not a dirty word.

Sherm I have to go, I have things I need to do today but I want to leave you with something to think about.

You say there is history there I am unfamiliar with. Perhaps this is true, but there also is history between us forum members that I am familiar with.

When the newspaper shut the forum we used down I blamed One Citizen. Now I may be correct or I may be incorrect but in my heart and my mind that individual is to blame. As a result of this I had indicated when we first got this forum rolling that it was my intention to invite and recruit as many of the Gazz members as possible but I would ban One Citizen.

You called me to task for that. You said you didn't find his behavior as offensive as I did. In the end I told the group if he shows up we'll put it to a vote in the interest of democracy.

I believe in freedom of speech and expression. I don't always like Sam's tactics and have been at the receiving end of his barbs a few times. I'd much rather feel those stings every day than silence him. Shrug it off and try not to take it so personally.

I know it is difficult, Sherm. I struggle practically every day with Aaron. I don't censor Aaron even when he is attacking or patronizing me. I vent about him or walk away.

"...Well if the politicians would stop raiding the Social Security Trust Fund they woudn't quite be transfer payments now would they?..."




Yes. Soc. Security benefits were by design "transfer payments" from the beginning.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Security_(United_States)#Creation:_The_Social_Security_Act

And this section deals with your specific question:

Trust fund
Main article: Social Security Trust Fund
Social Security taxes are paid into the Social Security Trust Fund maintained by the U.S. Treasury (technically, the "Federal Old-Age and Survivors Insurance Trust Fund", as established by 42 U.S.C. § 401(a)). Current year expenses are paid from current Social Security tax revenues. When revenues exceed expenditures, as they have in most years, the excess is invested in special series, non-marketable U.S. Government bonds, thus the Social Security Trust Fund indirectly finances the federal government's general purpose deficit spending. At the end of 2006, the cumulative excess of Social Security taxes and interest received over benefits paid out stood at $2.0 trillion. [29] The Trust Fund is regarded by some as an accounting trick which holds no economic significance, although others argue that it has specific legal significance because the Treasury securities it holds are backed by the "full faith and credit" of the U.S. government, which has an obligation to repay its debt.

The Social Security Administration's authority to make benefit payments as granted by Congress extends only to its current revenues and existing Trust Fund balance, i.e. redemption of its holdings of Treasuries. Therefore, Social Security's ability to make payments after the 2016 date depends in part on the federal government's ability to make good on the bonds that it has issued to the Social Security trust funds. The federal government's ability to repay Social Security, in turn, is contingent on fiscal policies taken today (which have tended to increase deficits and the percent of the budget spent on interest and principal payments) and in the future.

So to summarize, Soc. Security benefits are now, and have been from their inception, Transfer Payments.

And a great program it has been.

And although the rugged individualist republicans have fought against it from the get-go, they are right there with their hand out when it's time to collect.

shermangeneral wrote:Well Sam since you are not specific, I can only assume you refer to the Teachers' Retirement System when you insult my wife.

But she is still active and paying into the fund and not taking out a dime.

And I was referring to the underfunded State Police Retirement System in reference to you, ……

and the underfunded PEIA System for both of you.

And if you think I insulted your wife for speaking “the truth”, then that is your problem, not mine.

shermangeneral wrote:So your claim is false on its face.

Not so, Sherman, not so, ….. and you know it isn’t.

My claim was, to wit:

SamCogar wrote: Well, GEEEEEEEEZY, ...... Shermmy, ........ even I can see that, ....... that the elected WV Democrats have done better for the likes of you and your wife.

And the $24 BILLION +- in underfunded liabilities is a testament to that.

Sherman, has not the elected WV Democrats provided far better jobs with greater pay, benefits and entitlements for you and your wife ……. than they have provided for the privately employed citizens who are taxed to provide said for you?

Absolutely, Sherm, Absolutely.

Now my wife, after working 20+ years of 40+ hours per week, which included Saturdays, Sundays and all Holidays, at minimum wage, no health insurance and no retirement other than SS, she lucked out and was hired by the BCBOE ….. and now has all those WV Democrats provided benefits.

And Sherm, the other part of my claim was, to wit:

SamCogar wrote: And what is even better for the likes of you and your wife ....... is that none of you are obligated to "help pay off" a single penny of that $24 BILLION +- in underfunded liabilities.

An absolutely true statement, Sherman. You don’t have to work and your wife could also retire, and you both could sit back and enjoy life via those “underfunded liability” transfer payments, ……. and if you moved to Florida neither of you would ever pay another penny in taxes that would be used to “pay off or pay back” said underfunded liabilities.

shermangeneral wrote:Plus it takes a lot of gall for you to make such a dirty accusation when far as I know your own wife is in the same retirement fund.

Nope, it was mandated that she be in the newer fund, ..... which even you said she "was going to lose out on."

Shermmy, were you INSULTING MY WIFE ..... with that accusation?

And Shermmy, my wife does not have a “dirty mind” and therefore she is not insulted when I speak “truths”.

And if you ask her I am sure she will confirm said and will also probably tell you that her job with the BCBOE …… is the best job she has ever had in her life …… and that her only complaints are the neglects and unconcern’s other school employees have for what “goes on” within the school.

.

SamCogar wrote:

ziggy wrote:

Aaron wrote:If it's your stance that little d's aren't the individuals that have been running this state in the ground for the past 70+ years Sherm, then I would submit that maybe you're not a democrat or a Democrat because ONE party is responsible for the situation we are in and what they call themselves ain't Republicans or Independants. Perhaps you should look at joining Zig in one of the loon parties Sherm as your beliefs don't seem to jive with the those of the current West Virginia democratic party.

Aaron, looking at West Virginia election campaigns the past 15 years or so, what are Republicans promising that Democratic office holders aren't already doing?

GEEEZE, so soon we forget, .......MUST BE a culturally genetic problem.

I believe Don Blankenship, a Republican, ...... was proposing "things" quite different from what the Democrats wanted or were doing.

And as usual, all you loyal fans and supporters of the elected Democrats "found problems" with everything he proposed, suggested or done ........ based soley on the fact that he was a Republican, ....... and nothing else.

I figured you couldn't tell us what they were, Sam. Wouldn't it be easier for you to just say, "I don't know"?

shermangeneral wrote:And, by definition, Soc. Security falls into the category of "transfer payments".

As I understand it.

In actuality Shermmy, my SS checks, by definition, falls into the catagory of "re-transfer payments", ....... because said SS checks represents monies deducted from my earnings and transferred to the SSA, ..... and as promised, ..... they are now re-transferring that money back to me in monthly payments.

And ps Sherm, ...... my "re-transfer payments" from the SSA ...... is only about 1/3rd of what your "transfer payments" are from the State of WV.

.

Stephanie wrote:I know it is difficult, Sherm. I struggle practically every day with Aaron. I don't censor Aaron even when he is attacking or patronizing me. I vent about him or walk away.

I have not attacked you on this forum Stephanie. All I do is point out when you are wrong. Call me a clarifier, not an attacker.