Buchanan: Imagine this:

TerryRC wrote:It matters little what quotes I post for you from the likes of Jeremiah Wright or even Michelle Obama herself. The simple fact of the matter is that you loathe Sarah Palin so much you have decided to go against your own conservative principles and vote for Obama. Your mind is made up.

I guess you have missed the posts where I have stated that I will likely not vote for president in this election.

That being said, did you see my quote from Teddy Roosevelt about a living wage? Did you see were Eisenhower put a 91% tax on people that made over 400K?

How about the new National Socialism of this recent bailout?

How do you tell one socialist from another, Steph?

So, where has anyone in the official Obama campaign played the race card? Where is your evidence to back the bare assertion that Michell Obama would have screamed "prejudice" if SNL lampooned her?

Don't be a dittohead.

Where have you ever seen me call Teddy or Ike conservatives? Lots of people affiliate themselves with the GOP for all kinds of reasons, that doesn't make them all conservatives.

I must have missed you state you would likely not vote for President, but I think you should. I think you should pick the third party candidate you agree with most and vote for that person. Let both parties know just how disgusted you are.

Surely you have not missed my railing against the bailout. My response has been to throw them all out, every single last Senator & Representative who voted for this should be thrown out of office. I posted an article written by Darrel Castle, the CP's vp candidate, denouncing the bailout. I also posted speeches and articles by Congressman Paul against the bailout.

Does Michelle Obama count as an "official campaign" person?

If I could take one attribute from Obama and deliver it to Ron Paul it would be his speaking abilities.

Oh christ-a-mighty, Stephanie. I can't believe you said this.

With Ron Paul one (1) knows what he is saying, and (2) can see that he actually believes what he is saying.

Who can see either of those in Obama? And yet Obama is a "great" speaker? But for cliches and superlatives, the man would be almost wordless.

I like you, Stephanie. But if you think that Arch Moore and Barack Obama are great speakers, and that Ron Paul is somehow lackluster, then I've got to seriously question your linguistic understandings. I don't always agree with Ron Paul. But he's a hell of a lot more logical and convincing of his earnestness, at least to me, than either Obama or Arch ....................

Oh crap, why am I even bothering with this ........................

Maybe some of us are influenced more by what we think that others will see in someone than what we see in them. Nothing else makes sense of this.

ziggy wrote:

If I could take one attribute from Obama and deliver it to Ron Paul it would be his speaking abilities.

Oh christ-a-mighty, Stephanie. I can't believe you said this.

With Ron Paul one (1) knows what he is saying, and (2) can see that he actually believes what he is saying.

Who can see either of those in Obama? And yet Obama is a "great" speaker? But for cliches and superlatives, the man would be almost wordless.

I like you, Stephanie. But if you think that Arch Moore and Barack Obama are great speakers, and that Ron Paul is somehow lackluster, then I've got to seriously question your linguistic understandings. I don't always agree with Ron Paul. But he's a hell of a lot more logical and convincing of his earnestness, at least to me, than either Obama or Arch ....................

Oh crap, why am I even bothering with this ........................

Maybe some of us are influenced more by what we think that others will see in someone than what we see in them. Nothing else makes sense of this.

Because Ron Paul lacks their eloquence. You don't see that?

I liked Arch Moore's speech......and I've liked Obama's speeches. They tell people what they want to hear, and Ron Paul tells them what they need to hear. If Dr. Paul could do that without tripping over his own tongue and looking like his shoes are a size too small I believe he would have been much more successful, even though the truth he speaks is painful.

TerryRC wrote:There have been people like them throughout history. Sometimes they reach incredible heights of power. People gravitate towards them. One of the most notorious examples of this in the past century was Adolph Hitler. Not that I think Moore or Obama share Hitler's depravity. Yet even Hitler had his detractors from the beginning.

Obama isn't a Hitler, but...

C'mon, Steph.

C'mon what? Are you agreeing with Zig that Obama isn't a great speaker? Or are you having a cow because I think Hitler was? Or is it just because I used their names in the same sentence?

Stephanie wrote:Because Ron Paul lacks their eloquence. You don't see that?

Eloquence? You mean the ability to say "shit", but make it sound like something that would smell good and be appetizing?

Spare me the charades.

I'll take the guy or gal who seems to know what he /she is talking about- despite the tongue ties and undersized shoes- thank you.

Obama is Jay Gatsby. He has no history and no past. It is his ability to say nothing with great passion that makes him 1) a great speaker and 2) a viable candidate for President.

That's classic Terry. Should we also prove that Jimmy Hoffa and Amelia Airheart are dead while proving Obama's using the racist card.

Ah, Jimmy knows what I'm talking about.

Ziggy,

You don't think Obama captivates his audiences? Obama tells people he's going to make everything alright. He's going to put a chicken in every pot plus give everybody access to high quality healthcare and it won't hurt a bit.

I don't know why you've got your feathers all ruffled with me. You should direct your distress and your outrage at the people who are voting for this svengali.....like your buddy Sherm who cast his ballot already.

C'mon what? Are you agreeing with Zig that Obama isn't a great speaker? Or are you having a cow because I think Hitler was? Or is it just because I used their names in the same sentence?

I think it was the word "yet" in, "Not that I think Moore or Obama share Hitler's depravity. Yet even Hitler had his detractors from the beginning."

Ah, well. My mistake.

Where have you ever seen me call Teddy or Ike conservatives? Lots of people affiliate themselves with the GOP for all kinds of reasons, that doesn't make them all conservatives.

I was pointing out that people bandy the word "socialist". Both parties have taken positions that could be considered "socialist". It isn't fair to hang that on Obama while giving McCain a pass.

Does Michelle Obama count as an "official campaign" person?

Did she really play the race card? Bear in mind you and others have accused me of going after Palin because she is a "woman" among other things.

The McCain/Palin campaign has been filled with divisiveness. Her statements about the "real America" and "pro-American values". Utter crap.

Compare Obama's statements:

There are no real or fake parts of this country. We are not separated by the pro-America and anti-America parts of this nation - we all love this country, no matter where we live or where we come from. There are patriots who supported this war in Iraq and patriots who opposed it; patriots who believe in Democratic policies and those who believe in Republican policies. The men and women from Virginia and all across America who serve on our battlefields may be Democrats and Republicans and Independents, but they have fought together and bled together and some died together under the same proud flag. They have not served a Red America or a Blue America - they have served the United States of America.

We have always been at our best when we've had leadership that called us to look past our differences and come together as one nation, as one people; leadership that rallied this entire country to a common purpose - to a higher purpose. And I am running for President of the United States of America because that is the country we need to be right now.

This country and the dream it represents are being tested in a way that we haven't seen in nearly a century. And future generations will judge ours by how we respond to this test. Will they say that this was a time when America lost its way and its purpose? When we allowed the same divisions and fear tactics and our own petty differences to plunge this country into a dark and painful recession?

Or will they say that this was another one of those moments when America overcame? When we battled back from adversity by recognizing that common stake that we have in each other's success?

This is one of those moments. I realize you're cynical and fed up with politics. I understand that you're disappointed and even angry with your leaders. You have every right to be. But despite all of this, I ask of you what's been asked of the American people in times of trial and turmoil throughout our history. I ask you to believe - to believe in yourselves, in each other, and in the future we can build together.

Richmond VA 10/22/08

Love him or hate him, he occasionally hits the nail on the head.

If McCain had picked Lieberman as a running mate and stayed away from Rovian tactics of dividing people and turning them on one another, he would be winning right now.

That's classic Terry. Should we also prove that Jimmy Hoffa and Amelia Airheart are dead while proving Obama's using the racist card.

Airheart! That is a good one.

I take it you can't come up with an actual example of the Obama campaign playing the race card?

Stephanie wrote:I don't know why you've got your feathers all ruffled with me. You should direct your distress and your outrage at the people who are voting for this svengali.....like your buddy Sherm who cast his ballot already.

Sherm is not defending plus $100,000 vice-presidential campaign wardrobes, nor is he praising Obama as a great speechmaker.

And if he'd be totally honest- which no one has to be fresh from the voting booth- he probably say that he flinched as he scratched that all encompassing rooster- if he even did.

Aaron wrote:That's classic Terry. Should we also prove that Jimmy Hoffa and Amelia Airheart are dead while proving Obama's using the racist card.

If we're trying to show that they were racists until their dying breaths, then yes, we do.

Airheart had to be deliberate.

What did you think Michelle Obama meant when she said that for the first time she is really proud of her country? WTF was that? What do you think that was all about, Terry? If not about race, what then? What was she talking about? Who was she speaking to?

Barack Obama is a great speaker (no matter what Ziggy says) with some really terrific speech writers. If that's enough to get somebody elected to the highest office in our nation, we are screwed.

All you have done is posted another great campaign speech.

John McCain would have tanked with Lieberman as a running mate. Social conservatives would have all turned their backs on him, along with many fiscal conservatives. Joe Lieberman is as liberal as they come. He diverges from the Democrats only on the issue of preemptive wars on behalf of Israel. That is it.

ziggy wrote:

Stephanie wrote:I don't know why you've got your feathers all ruffled with me. You should direct your distress and your outrage at the people who are voting for this svengali.....like your buddy Sherm who cast his ballot already.

Sherm is not defending plus $100,000 vice-presidential campaign wardrobes, nor is he praising Obama as a great speechmaker.

And if he'd be totally honest- which no one has to be fresh from the voting booth- he probably say that he flinched as he scratched that all encompassing rooster- if he even did.

I have zero problem with the wardrobe. Zilch......zero......nada.

If she were using taxpayer funds, or if the clothes were being supplied free of charge by lobbyists for the now nonexistant US textile industry I would. However, this money came from campaign cash. I realize you detest the way campaigns are financed in this country, I don't agree with PACs should be able to buy votes either. However, John McCain and his campaign could have spent a million dollars on her clothes and it wouldn't matter a hoot to me. I hope some of the stuff was manufactured here. That's about it.

Airheart had to be deliberate.

One would think...

What did you think Michelle Obama meant when she said that for the first time she is really proud of her country? WTF was that? What do you think that was all about, Terry? If not about race, what then? What was she talking about? Who was she speaking to?

Why don't you tell me?

Perhaps it was about the fact that this election will likely have one of the higher voter turnouts in the history of the nation.

Put it in context for me.

John McCain would have tanked with Lieberman as a running mate. Social conservatives would have all turned their backs on him, along with many fiscal conservatives. Joe Lieberman is as liberal as they come. He diverges from the Democrats only on the issue of preemptive wars on behalf of Israel. That is it.

McCain was winning until the GOP National convention...

All you have done is posted another great campaign speech.

But the divisiveness of Palins statements, the implication that some of us aren't "real Americans"?

No comment?

If that's enough to get somebody elected to the highest office in our nation, we are screwed.

Got Bush elected, didn't it?

If she were using taxpayer funds, or if the clothes were being supplied free of charge by lobbyists for the now nonexistant US textile industry I would. However, this money came from campaign cash. I realize you detest the way campaigns are financed in this country, I don't agree with PACs should be able to buy votes either. However, John McCain and his campaign could have spent a million dollars on her clothes and it wouldn't matter a hoot to me. I hope some of the stuff was manufactured here. That's about it.

Did McCain turn down public financing? No? Then guess what, you are paying, in part, for her wardrobe.

Barack Obama is a great speaker (no matter what Ziggy says) with some really terrific speech writers. If that's enough to get somebody elected to the highest office in our nation, we are screwed.

And that is precisely why "great speeches" often just aren't all that great. They are too often more about image than substance. Electable or not, Ron Paul is a far "greater" speaker than either Obama or Bush, for example- because he obviosuly believes that what he says is more important than how he says it.

ziggy wrote:

Barack Obama is a great speaker (no matter what Ziggy says) with some really terrific speech writers. If that's enough to get somebody elected to the highest office in our nation, we are screwed.

And that is precisely why "great speeches" often just aren't all that great. They are too often more about image than substance. Electable or not, Ron Paul is a far "greater" speaker than either Obama or Bush, for example- because he obviosuly believes that what he says is more important than how he says it.

Paul believes what he says, but what good has it done him? He's not on the ballot, is he? I know a lot of Ron Paul fans. I mean a LOT. I have worked with a couple hundred here in WV, and online I've encountered thousands. I'm talking die-hard Paul supporters who give money and do whatever he asks. He's like developed quite a following and we admire him. I've heard him compared to Jefferson, Washington, Hamilton. I know people that have driven thousands of miles just to hear him speak, just to be in his presence. I've never heard anyone call him a great speaker until today.

TerryRC wrote:If she were using taxpayer funds, or if the clothes were being supplied free of charge by lobbyists for the now nonexistant US textile industry I would. However, this money came from campaign cash. I realize you detest the way campaigns are financed in this country, I don't agree with PACs should be able to buy votes either. However, John McCain and his campaign could have spent a million dollars on her clothes and it wouldn't matter a hoot to me. I hope some of the stuff was manufactured here. That's about it.

Did McCain turn down public financing? No? Then guess what, you are paying, in part, for her wardrobe.

Would you feel better about it if he spent it on another attack ad, Terry? The money is there for the campaign to spend. Perhaps we can get him to agree to return whatever portion could have come from public funding to the treasury. Would that make you feel better?

Stephanie wrote:Paul believes what he says, but what good has it done him? He's not on the ballot, is he? I know a lot of Ron Paul fans. I mean a LOT. I have worked with a couple hundred here in WV, and online I've encountered thousands. I'm talking die-hard Paul supporters who give money and do whatever he asks. He's like developed quite a following and we admire him. I've heard him compared to Jefferson, Washington, Hamilton. I know people that have driven thousands of miles just to hear him speak, just to be in his presence. I've never heard anyone call him a great speaker until today.

And I think that goes to show that for some of us honesty is more important that style- more important than "winning".

Would you feel better about it if he spent it on another attack ad, Terry? The money is there for the campaign to spend. Perhaps we can get him to agree to return whatever portion could have come from public funding to the treasury. Would that make you feel better?

Steph. I was pointing out that you were mistaken. This WAS partially funded with taxpayer dollars.

As I said, I don't care. I just want to point out that the Keli's of the world were all over Edwards for primping and will give Palin a pass for the same thing.

ziggy wrote:

Stephanie wrote:Paul believes what he says, but what good has it done him? He's not on the ballot, is he? I know a lot of Ron Paul fans. I mean a LOT. I have worked with a couple hundred here in WV, and online I've encountered thousands. I'm talking die-hard Paul supporters who give money and do whatever he asks. He's like developed quite a following and we admire him. I've heard him compared to Jefferson, Washington, Hamilton. I know people that have driven thousands of miles just to hear him speak, just to be in his presence. I've never heard anyone call him a great speaker until today.

And I think that goes to show that for some of us honesty is more important that style- more important than "winning".

You know I'm really sorry I said that.....about what good his honesty has done him. Ron Paul has his integrity and his self respect. That's a lot more than I can say for the top of either ticket.

I'm relieved he'll never know I wrote that.

TerryRC wrote:McCain was winning until the GOP National convention...

I've got to wonder if we're watching the same election.

McCain has trailed all summer in most polls and the ONLY time he been close to Obama in polling was right after the Republican Convention in early September in which Palen gave a great speech.

The proof is in the pudding!!!

Stephanie wrote:You know I'm really sorry I said that.....about what good his honesty has done him. Ron Paul has his integrity and his self respect. That's a lot more than I can say for the top of either ticket.

I'm relieved he'll never know I wrote that.

I won't tell him.

So now polls mean something to you, Aaron?

He didn't look bad earlier on in the year. You are correct, though. I guess he wasn't really "winning"

Palin energized him for a moment, until people actually took a look at her. His big tanking has been since the convention.

Palin, or people's disgust with his Rovian tactics? You make the call.