Stimulus Bill Explained

I certainly didn't here that from the few minutes I heard him speak Stephanie and he definitely didn't say that on the radio the next day. From what I heard, he advocated personal responsibility and smaller government and was criticized by the unabashed liberal media as overly conservative.

Someone will have to explain it to me.

Obama is a superb orator and he spoke from the Speaker's dais in the chamber of the U.S. House of Representatives surrounded by the hundred and sixteenth Congress. It was a well-delivered speech and the setting was truly splendid. The speech was devoid of facts.

Jindal's speech would have read a little more factual but the setting was blase (maybe the foyer of the governor's mansion in Baton Rouge) and his tone was faux conversational. He sounded curiously like Mr. Rogers. What he said made fine sense. The way he said it was ham-handed. Those who listen, hear the words, and assimilate them thought it was good. Those who hear in terms of style and nuance thought it dumb.

The problem was strictly one of contrast.

I've heard that statement from more then a few liberals but when I referred to you as such, you became offended. Why so?

Because I am a constitutional conservative and the christian right has perverted what it means to be "right-wing" and/or conservative. I once used to side most frequently with the GOP.

They have whored themselves to the christian coalition.

I want the GOP to be burned a bit because of people like Palin and Jindal and, perhaps I can get along with them [the GOP] again

TRC says such things about anyone with brains and talent.

The way Sam hits at me and runs, one wonders if he is projecting.

Those who listen, hear the words, and assimilate them thought it was good. Those who hear in terms of style and nuance thought it dumb.

The problem was strictly one of contrast.

In your opinion. What he said was bad also. My take:

1) Saying government monitoring Volcanoes is a waste of money. This is idiotic. He also pretended all the USGS money only went to volcano monitoring which is not true.

2) Blaming the REPUBLICAN failure of Katrina on "government". They failed because Bush put incompetent people in charge. He should have put the blame solidly on Bush and his officials.

3) Saying federal funds are EVIL while he took billions on Katrina rebuilding,

4) Saying the Stimulus is EVIL when he is taking the vast majority of the funds.

There is so much more but I can't stand to go back and listen to it any more - his condescending "Americans want to be talked down to" and "I dare not sound too intellectual" style of speaking makes my head want to explode.

As I said, I didn't see or hear the speech, I read the transcript. Here's what I've pulled from it that I found rather dissatisfying.

As we take these steps, we must remember, for all of our troubles at home, dangerous enemies still seek our destruction. Now is no time to dismantle the defenses that have protected this country for hundreds of years or to make deep cuts in funding for our troops.

America's fighting men and women can do anything. If we give them the resources they need, they will stay on the offensive, defeat our enemies, and protect us from harm.

I disagree with this position. There is no need for us to have troops in over a hundred nations across the globe. We need to spend our military dollars more wisely. I could write about this for pages, but will spare you.

Who amongst us would ask our children for a loan so we could spend money we do not have on things we do -- we do not need? That is precisely what the Democrats in Congress just did. It's irresponsible. And it's no way to strengthen our economy, create jobs, or build a prosperous future for our children.

Jindal is reinforcing the notion that the goverment is the parent and we, the people, are the children dependent upon the nanny state.

Also, I find some of his statements contradictory. The government can provide education, the people are looking to the government for solutions.

Hell, the government can't create solutions. The government creates problems.

The volcanic monitoring thing....Come on! It is a legitimate function of the federal government to warn people of impending natural disaster to minimize injury, loss of life, and property destruction.

btw, Terry........

I'm fed up beyond belief with Republicans getting all the blame for the Katrina fiasco. The Republican President was not in charge of the failed evacuation of New Orleans. It was not the Republican President who failed so miserably in leadership in planning in the state of Louisianna and the city of New Orleans in the days leading up to the battering of the coast. Those nimrods were Democrats. That twit mayor they have and that moron Governor didn't take the steps necessary to provide for the people of their city and state. He didn't create the Super Dome nightmare.

Yet everyone expects the President to snap his fingers and unring the bell. The Bush administration was totally porked by state and local officials before the President ever got involved.

I'm fed up beyond belief with Republicans getting all the blame for the Katrina fiasco. The Republican President was not in charge of the failed evacuation of New Orleans. It was not the Republican President who failed so miserably in leadership in planning in the state of Louisianna and the city of New Orleans in the days leading up to the battering of the coast. Those nimrods were Democrats. That twit mayor they have and that moron Governor didn't take the steps necessary to provide for the people of their city and state. He didn't create the Super Dome nightmare.

Bush refused to fund the Corp. of Engineers projects that could have reduced or avoided much of the damage.

He appointed incompetents to run FEMA. These were not democratic appointees. Remember "Brownie" doing a "heckov' a job"?

Did the gov. screw up by not declaring martial law? Yep.

Of course there is danger putting weekend warriors on the streets with assault rifles...

Saying that Bush shouldn't bear some (or most) of the responsibility for Katrina is not, IMHO, accurate or fair.

At least we agree that Jindal's speech was fairly hollow.

TerryRC wrote:

Bush refused to fund the Corp. of Engineers projects that could have reduced or avoided much of the damage.

He appointed incompetents to run FEMA. These were not democratic appointees. Remember "Brownie" doing a "heckov' a job"?Saying that Bush shouldn't bear some (or most) of the responsibility for Katrina is not, IMHO, accurate or fair.

HORSESHIT, ..... TO BOTH STATEMENTS.

Your intentional ignorance and partisan hatred is appaling.

.

I find it simply amazing that anyone, at least a person as well educatd as you, Terry, would lay blame for decades of mismanagement, neglect, poor planning, and stupidity by countless public officials on a single man.

George W. Bush didn't create the mess that is New Orleans. He was our President. He didn't control the purse strings, that was Congress. He certainly didn't decide to build a city surrounded by great bodies of water below sea level and then fail to maintain it properly for decades. As I pointed out to you before, it wasn't the President's responsibility to create and orchestrate plans to evacuate New Orleans, or any other coastal area in event of a hurricane.

There are 50 states in this country with who knows how many cities and towns and the individual elected to serve as President of this nation cannot be expected create evacuation plans for all of them in the event of disaster, nor can the head of FEMA or any other federal agency. That is what state and local officials are for.

There are a lot of really bad decisions GWB made. He did a lot of things that I found shameful, both as an American and as a Republican. However, he doesn't control the weather. He wasn't responsible for the evacuation of New Orleans. He didn't create the system of levees and their maintainence wasn't his responsibility for dozens and dozens of years.

Terry, I like you and I respect you but I'm with Sammy on this on 100%. Your statements above are horseshit and they demonstrate your bias against the "W".

You're wrong on all counts Terry. Gov. Blanco ask for $9 million dollars. Bush gave her $130 million dollars.

Bush wanted to nationalize the national guard and the governor refused.

Katrina was and is the democrat's baby. The liberal media kept reporting that it was Bush's fault and a nation of rubes bought it. It's part of that nanny state mentality you guys have.

As for the levee's, the first recommendation to replace or rebuild them was in 1965. How is their failure Bush's fault.

Your letting your hatred override decent common sense.

It's all right here for anyone willing to see. Open your eyes man.

I never said Blanco didn't screw up. Martial law, even on a limited basis is a dangerous thing to declare. Even still, LA likely needed more resources than they had at time. Federal resources.

[sarcasm]About Bush - Ok. I'm totally wrong.

A FEMA staffed with Bush appointees did a bang-up job. Bush responded with leadership and and a wisdom never before seen in a disaster.

Nope. The GOP can eschew all blame.

Oh, and this now makes Jindal's speech informative and relevant.[/sarcasm]

You guys give the republicans a pass and blame the local democrats. Even I didn't do that.

Tell me again about partisanship. Yep.

Like it or not Terry, the state is responsible for their self first. Bush gave her 10 times the money she ask for and tried to nationalize the guard. She not only refused, she only had about half of her available guard members on duty. Had Bush taken charge, then he would have been criticized for that action. Yes, FEMA screwed up, but it wasn't only them and most of their screw ups were AFTER the Hurricane hit. Blanco and local democrats are who I blame because they deserve it.

Terry,

I'm appropriately apportioning blame. There is plenty to go around, no doubt. Did Bush make mistakes? You bet. However, the loss of life and human suffering, the flooding and property destruction, were the direct result of failures by officials at the state, local & Congressional levels.

You have chosen to blame an administration in power for 4 years for decades worth of mismanagement and neglect. You go with that it if makes you feel better.

If you wish to give the Democrats in charge at the time in N.O. & LA. a pass, that's your business. Don't expect me to blindly follow suit.

I'm appropriately apportioning blame. There is plenty to go around, no doubt. Did Bush make mistakes? You bet. However, the loss of life and human suffering, the flooding and property destruction, were the direct result of failures by officials at the state, local & Congressional levels.

Who made the FEMA appointments?

If you wish to give the Democrats in charge at the time in N.O. & LA. a pass, that's your business. Don't expect me to blindly follow suit.

Meh. Where did I give them a pass? I said, a couple of times, that Blanco dropped the ball.

I said Jindal was a boob for trying to eschew any blame on the part of the GOP, however.

FEMA wasn't responsible for the the loss of life and human suffering, the flooding and property destruction.

Blanco "dropped the ball"! That's a very sanatized version of her failures. What about Ray "New Orleans will be a chocolate city" Nagin?

Yes, it was all the incompetent Boosh and his henchman Brownie.

Blanco "dropped the ball"! That's a very sanatized version of her failures. What about Ray "New Orleans will be a chocolate city" Nagin?

Alright.

it was all the democrat's fault. And Jindal is the best orator, ever.

Bush will go down in history as the best president EVAR because of his response to Katrina.

Just don't accuse me of partisanism any more, alright. I don't like the pot calling me black.

I don't ever recall accusing you of partisanship. If I did it must have been long ago, before I got to know you better.

Bush sucked. He was a disaster for this nation, and particularly for my party. Katrina had little to do with any of that.

I doubt any sizable city can do an "evacuation" very efficiently.

Nor could they maintain public services on their own during a calamity such as New Orleans was faced with.

IMO that is the reason for the existence of FEMA.

To assist when the local capacity is overwhelmed.

Perhaps one of the monday morning quarterbacks can explain how the locals could accomplish a total evacuation.

Just look at Galveston. Did they do any better, even after the lessons of Katrina.?

However the bureaucratic bungling dealing with the aftermath could have been lessened imo.

As of 6 months ago they were still shuttling the trailers around that were sent for emergency housing. Never been used.

And as I recall, only 1/3 of the money appropriated by the Congress for
relief and recovery has been spent to this day.

http://www.naomiklein.org/shock-doctrine/resources/disaster-capitalism-in-action/tags/hurricane%2Bkatrina

"A massive effort to fix public works destroyed more than three years ago by the Gulf Coast hurricanes remains largely stalled, leaving more than $3.9 billion in federal aid unspent and key repairs far from complete....

"Nearly 3½ years after those storms hit, new FEMA accounting reports show two-thirds of the money to pay for permanent rebuilding work still has not been spent, the latest bottleneck in a recovery long beset by criticism that it has been too slow and inefficient. And despite a handful of high-profile successes, officials who had vowed to speed up the pace of repairs concede it is still going far more slowly than it should."

You know what, Sherm? If the evacuation were because of a chemical spill or an earthquake or some other event with no warning, I would agree with you.

That wasn't the case with Katrina. Blanco & Nagin had plenty of warning. They knew they should evacuate the coast. They waited too long and once they finally decided to get people out the failure of proper planning for emergency shelter, food, and medical care proved catastrophic.

This was not the Bush administration's fault. Certainly, state and local officials must share some of responsibility for relief and recovery. Perhaps you think FEMA & the Army Corps of Engineers should just move in, rebuild everything and hand it back over to the same jackasses that FUBAR'd the whole thing to begin with. Is that what you're suggesting?

Cities in Florida do it with some regularity. Miami is a pretty good-sized city.

FEMA was folded into Homeland Security making the largest mass of bureacracy in the history of government. Why would anybody expect it to perform well?

Western Louisiana was hit later that same year. They didn't have near the SNAFU's that NO suffered.

It wasn't the Hurricane that created the problems for New Orleans; it was the flooding from the failing Levee's. The first warning given to the state of Louisiana of what could potentially happen if a category 4 or stronger hurricane hit New Orleans directly occurred in 1965.

It happened with Katrina. Were it not for the flooding, there wouldn't have been near the damage, the loss of life or the extended evacuation nor near the problems. Citizens would have been back in their homes within a matter of days, perhaps weeks but certainly not months.

Consider the amount of time and number of warnings they had, please tell me how that failure is not Louisianan’s fault?

Well I think you guys underestimate the difficulty of evacuating a city that size.

Especially when over 10% refuse to go.

Especially when you don't know what you're doing.

Why is it difficult Sodbuster? It’s not like they’re being ask to cure cancer or anything like that.

They basically know where the people are who will need transportation and between city and school buses, they have enough vehicles to carry them. It's a matter of getting drivers and coordinating destination points.

You would think someone in the mayor's office would get with someone in the governors office and work all of this out and not expect the federal government to take care of them.

ohio county wrote:Especially when you don't know what you're doing.

Well OC I doubt if anybody "knows what they're doing" when it comes to evacuating people who dont want to go.

Whether the evacuation started early enough maybe that would have helped some.

In hindsight.

But those mistakes (to whatever extent) were made "in the heat of the battle" so to speak.

The recovery effort has been years.

I agree with you FEMA should not be part of the big homeland security bureaucracy. (I dont think the big HS bureaucracy should even exist, but that's for a different argument another day.)

They should be more of a rapid response organization.

The long term recovery efforts should be turned over to some other entity, imo.

Keep FEMA an emergency reaction organization.

"A massive effort to fix public works destroyed more than three years ago by the Gulf Coast hurricanes remains largely stalled, leaving more than $3.9 billion in federal aid unspent and key repairs far from complete....

"Nearly 3½ years after those storms hit, new FEMA accounting reports show two-thirds of the money to pay for permanent rebuilding work still has not been spent, the latest bottleneck in a recovery long beset by criticism that it has been too slow and inefficient. And despite a handful of high-profile successes, officials who had vowed to speed up the pace of repairs concede it is still going far more slowly than it should."

Heat of the battle? New Orleans has been a tropical city below sea level for at least two hundred years.