*Twas the month before Christmas*

Christ is The Reason for the Christ-mas Season!

Not the celebration of the rebirth of the sun, a celebration that goes back to neolithic times and is celebrated among myriad cultures, a celebration which the christians later stole (Jesus was more likely born in the spring or summer).

Curse my understanding of history!

winter solstice(linky clicky)

Well it is true that the Christians have coopted the Feast of Saturnalia/Winter Solstice, but your point is what exactly?

I mean, Terry, sometimes Christmas is on a Thursday, which is named for Thor, isn't it? I mean, what exactly are you about here:)?

TerryRC wrote: Christ is The Reason for the Christ-mas Season!

a celebration which the christians later stole (Jesus was more likely born in the spring or summer).

Curse my understanding of history!

Well, you should be cursing your own ignorance of history...... and then doing something to correct your problem. Like reading, understanding and remembering the following, to wit:

Either as a means to unify his empire, or to make converting to Christianity easier, Constantine sought to blend Christian and pagan traditions. At that time, two prominent pagan winter festivals were celebrated. The first, starting on December 17 and lasting seven days, honored Saturn, the Roman god of agriculture. The second, starting on December 25 and lasting through January 1, commemorated the birth of Mithras, the Persian god of light. Constantine (about A.D. 313) merged many of the traditions from these festivals with the Nativity story in the Bible and Christmas was born. From its beginning, Christmas was a holiday (or holy day), gifts were exchanged, families and friends gathered to feast, and a birth was celebrated; just like in the Roman and Persian festivities.

The first mention of December 25 as the date of Jesus' birth is found in an early Roman calendar from A.D. 336. http://www.allaboutjesuschrist.org/emperor-constantine-faq.htm

And Constantine was not a Christian and didn't become one until A.D. 337 on this deathbed.



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And Constantine was not a Christian and didn't become one until A.D. 337 on this deathbed.

So he WAS a christian (and pandered to them for much of his life before he became one). What is your point?

The christians DID co-opt the solstice, Sammy. I was right, all of your attempts to nitpick and discredit aside.

TerryRC wrote:So he WAS a christian ( before he became one). What is your point?

That you were an idiot in the bud before you became a blooming idiot.

TerryRC wrote:The christians DID co-opt the solstice, Sammy. I was right, all of your attempts to nitpick and discredit aside.

Thursday they "stole the Christmas celebration", ...... Saturday they "co-opted the Christmas celebration".

What will it be on Monday? ... "borrowed", ..... "skimmed", ..... "philandered"?

And how many days will it be before you claim it wasn't you that said "a celebration which the christians later stole "?

So tell us, who will you be calling a liar for saying you posted the following, to wit:

by TerryRC on Wed Nov 11, 2009 8:21 am

Christ is The Reason for the Christ-mas Season!

Not the celebration of the rebirth of the sun, a celebration that goes back to neolithic times and is celebrated among myriad cultures, a celebration which the christians later stole (Jesus was more likely born in the spring or summer).

Your head hurts, ....... really hurts.

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OK, I really do with you'd be kinder to one another, or at least a bit respectful.........BUT

Sam made me laugh out loud with this line.......

That you were an idiot in the bud before you became a blooming idiot.

So thanks Sammy for my morning chuckle and thanks Terry for being a good sport and letting a crazy Yankee stuck up on a ridge in West by-God! Virginia have a good laugh on this beautiful morning!

Sam knows that the christians stole, co-opted (ca mette egal) christmas and other holidays from pagan religions.

He is just trying to deflate my argument by picking nits, not because my argument is incorrect (it isn't), but because Sam hates me.

It clouds his reason.

It doesn't matter where it came from or how it evolved, in the United States of America it has always been about celebrating the birth of Jesus Christ and there is no amount of inflating you can do to your argument to change that very simple fact.

TerryRC wrote:Sam knows that the christians stole, co-opted (ca mette egal) christmas and other holidays from pagan religions.

He is just trying to deflate my argument by picking nits, not because my argument is incorrect (it isn't), but because Sam hates me.

It clouds his reason.

Sam doesn't hate you. He dislikes you immensely because of your piss poor nurturing which prohibits you from making any attempt to better yourself in becoming a more productive member in society.

The Christians had nothing to do with the establishment of a December Christmas as a religious holy day, .......... you blooming idiot.

Emperor Constantine mandated said and anyone that was a disagreeable pain in the ass like you are that refused to comply with his edict he would have their ass hung by their feet from a cross for the birds to pick their eyes out.

If it were not for Emperor Constantine there would not even be a Christian Religion as we know it today but at best a minor religious belief or only a passing reference or footnote in history books.

And without the Christian Religion becoming dominant then Mohammed would never have gotten the idea to copy it and thus the Muslim or Islamic Religion would not exist as we know it today.


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Sam doesn't hate you. He dislikes you immensely because of your piss poor nurturing which prohibits you from making any attempt to better yourself in becoming a more productive member in society.

You hurt me, Sam.

You are really productive, sitting here playing internet tough guy. I see you really making a difference. My mom and my departed father would have loved to talk to you about my "nurturing"...

I'd tell you to fuck off, but I just can't even bring myself to care enough.

And without the Christian Religion becoming dominant then Mohammed would never have gotten the idea to copy it and thus the Muslim or Islamic Religion would not exist as we know it today.

Christianity wasn't all that powerful yet around 400 AD, regardless of what wiki page you have skimmed. Read a history book one of these days.

terryRC,

The Christians were going to celebrate the Savior's birth sometime, might as well be at a time people are used to partying. Luther set hymns to tavern drinking songs as well.

At any rate, every religion's holiday falls on a day of the week, which are named for all sorts of pagan gods, if I'm not mistaken.

TerryRC wrote:
[i]And without the Christian Religion becoming dominant then Mohammed would never have gotten the idea to copy it and thus the Muslim or Islamic Religion would not exist as we know it today.

Christianity wasn't all that powerful yet around 400 AD, regardless of what wiki page you have skimmed. Read a history book one of these days.

Well for sure Mohammed wasn't powerful around 400 AD because he wasn't born until 571 AD.

And me thinks your Christian nurturing was not much better than your Collegiate nurturing because Christianity became the most powerful Religion in the Roman Empire starting with the Edict of Milan in 313 and later on reaffirmed in 325 via the Council of Nicaea. And all because Emperor Constantine said so.

And to think the Catholics never made Constantine a Saint even after he saved der arses from now being but a footnote in history.



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...Religion in the Roman Empire starting with the Edict of Milan in 313 and later on reaffirmed in 325 via the Council of Nicaea. And all because Emperor Constantine said so.

I like how you try and win by defining the group. Globally, or even in the West, Christianity was still a minority. It was also a very splintered and difficult to define group as various sects, like the Essines became outlawed.

My original argument was that the ORIGINAL (the real) reason for the season was the solstice. Christians took it over, even though Christ was likely not born anywhere near the date.

All of your hateful attempts to to nitpick that argument have failed.

It doesn't matter where it came from or how it evolved, in the United States of America it has always been about celebrating the birth of Jesus Christ and there is no amount of inflating you can do to your argument to change that very simple fact.

Even among the Iroquois and the Sioux? Even among the the many Jews that have been part of this country for centuries? How do so many "christians" (as I assume you define yourself, Aaron) become so self-righteous and narrow minded?

Well Terry, you can get cute and say the "reason for the season" has to do with the earth's relationship with the sun, but that is still not relevant. We get a day off of work on December 25th for reasons other than Saturnalia, and you know that full well. There is no corresponding national holiday for the summer solstice, and you know that full well. You practice your irreligion in the very same manner as I practice my Christian faith, seeing the world from those particular glasses. I admit my religious bias, fess up your own.

And Merry Christmas.

Well Terry, you can get cute and say the "reason for the season" has to do with the earth's relationship with the sun, but that is still not relevant. We get a day off of work on December 25th for reasons other than Saturnalia, and you know that full well. There is no corresponding national holiday for the summer solstice, and you know that full well. You practice your irreligion in the very same manner as I practice my Christian faith, seeing the world from those particular glasses. I admit my religious bias, fess up your own.

The "season" encompasses many different days, not just the 25th. I have no control over which ones the fed and businesses choose to recognize "officially".

Having grown up in upstate NY with its dark and cold winters, my love for the days getting longer each year almost borders on religion.

TerryRC wrote:Even among the Iroquois and the Sioux? Even among the the many Jews that have been part of this country for centuries? How do so many "christians" (as I assume you define yourself, Aaron) become so self-righteous and narrow minded?

Yes, I believe in Jesus Christ but for me, it's not quite that simple.

As for the Iroquois and Sioux, I have no idea what they celebrated. I would find it hard to be believe that they celebrated the same thing pre-Christian Anglo Europeans did though.

And I don't think it is self-righteous or narrow minded to believe that as 75% of Americans do self identify as Christians and thus, in the United States of American they celebrate December 25th as the birth of Jesus Christ.

Last week at the mall I told someone Merry Christmas and he replied, "I don't celebrate Christmas" to which I replied "I do and as such, I hope you enjoy whatever it is you do celebrate." I don't know nor do I really care if I offended him. If someone wished me a Happy Kwanza or Hanukkah I would have said, "I celebrate Christmas but I do hope you enjoy your holiday" but then that's how I roll.

Merry Christmas, Happy Kwanza, Happy Hanukkah, Happy Solstice, Happy whatever to you and yours Terry. May the New Year bring you peace and prosperity in all you seek.

The guy at the mall is a jackass.

I have been mistaken for being Jewish (an easy thing up where I used to live), and someone wishing me a happy hanukkah never bothered me in the least. If someone were to wish me a happy eid that would not bother me, either, and if I were in India, I would expect to be wished a happy diwali.

Some people are like that Mike. I really don't care though. I yam who I yam and not much is going to change that. If someone were to wish me a Merry *** and I didn't celebrate it, I'd at least thank em or put it right back at em. I don't know where anyone got the idea that not being offended is a right.

I say and respond happy holidays, except I do with people I know to be Christians Merry Christmas. I was Catholic for the first 35 years of my life. I hope I never get so crotchety as to be offended when somebody wishes me happiness or joy.

I say Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays.

Just because I don't believe in the divinity of the Christ doesn't mean his birthday (and his message) are not worth celebrating.

I just want christians to realize they have shared ownership of the season with the rest of us.

There is more reason to the season than just Christ's birthday (observed).

I was thinking after I posted that, in this house, we celebrate Christmas. We do Santa Claus and bake too many cookies and put up a tree etc.

I hpe you and your family had a great time, Terry. I also hope you didn't suffer without power for too long after that last storm.

Saying that most Christians celebrate Christmas because it is observed as being Jesus Christ's birthday ...... is akin to saying that Southerners celebrate the 4th of July because it is the beginning of Black History Month.


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SamCogar wrote:Saying that most Christians celebrate Christmas because it is observed as being Jesus Christ's birthday ...... is akin to saying that Southerners celebrate the 4th of July because it is the beginning of Black History Month.


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Sam, that's a non sequitur; and, NOW, you are on the naughty list.