Re: Do ya wanna read something funny?

by ziggy Fri Apr 30, 2010 12:05 am

Stephanie wrote:I'm going to need more than just waders.

All I am telling you, Stephanie, is what the law says. If the law is deep crap, that is not my fault. It is the fault of the state legislature. The law can be changed any time there is the prevailing political will- exercised by politically organized voters- to change the legislature. Voters changed the WV Supreme Court. They can change the WV legislature. But just pissin' and moanin' won't change it. Political organizing will. And currently school teachers and others of organized labor are better politically organized than are the folks like you who want to see the laws changed. That is why it is called "organized labor"- because they organize around an agenda and make it work for them.

To effect change, you and those who agree with you need to organize to activate a majority of voters to your point of view. And that includes, but is not limited to, recruiting candiates who, once elected, will carry forth your agenda. That is the way labor does it successfully. That is the way the business and industry folks do it successfully. And that is the way the other successful social issue advocates do it.

by **Stephanie** Fri Apr 30, 2010 12:42 am

Does the Davis-Bacon Act grant tenure to employees of government contractors? Does the Davis Bacon-Act set the benefits package awarded to government contractors? Does the Davis-Bacon Act demand that government contractors lay-off based soley on seniority?

by **Stephanie** Fri Apr 30, 2010 1:02 am

When I was reading back on other discussions we've had about education, I found I once promised you to change my avatar to a picture of my son, Scott. Here he is!

by ziggy Fri Apr 30, 2010 1:10 am

Stephanie wrote:Does the Davis-Bacon Act grant tenure to employees of government contractors? Does the Davis Bacon-Act set the benefits package awarded to government contractors? Does the Davis-Bacon Act demand that government contractors lay-off based soley on seniority?

No. But you are missing the point. The law is what it is. Like it or not, teachers in West Virginia are employed by county boards of education. The LAW, not Ziggy, says so. The law directs how board of education members are elected. And the law, to a large degree, directs how boards of education are funded. So again, if you want it changed, organize yourselves politically to effect a change in the LAW. Otherwise you are just spitting into the wind.

by ziggy Fri Apr 30, 2010 1:12 am

Hey, your son is a pretty good lookin' dude. So what kind of a hat is that he's a wearin' ?

by ziggy Fri Apr 30, 2010 1:18 am

Aaron wrote:You mean a Warren McGraw type court found teachers to be county teachers?

I don't know. But there ain't been a McGraw on the Court for a few years now. And no one is currently challenging the law as it is currently written in that regard- other than for empty rhetoric. I wonder why. Hmmmmmmmmmm ...............

by SamCogar Fri Apr 30, 2010 7:46 am

The mentors and aides at least provide the classroom with a 2nd adult whose sole duty is that student which frees up the gen. ed. teacher to not have to stop the educational process for the other 29 students to deal with behavior issues/etc for the 1 child.

Yeah right.

One morning a Teacher came marching into the Cafeteria …. with all of her students following her …… (except 1, that is).

So the wife asks, “Why ???, what’s up, why are you bringing your class in here?”

And ??? replied, “Because XXX decided he was going to trash my Classroom again and since I couldn’t do anything about it …. I brought my students in here to finish there lesson for today”.

Do ya wanna read something funny? - Page 4 197570

.

by SamCogar Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:02 am

Teachers are hired by county boards of education. They are paid by county boards of education. Education facilities are owned by county boards of education. If they are fired- it is by their employer- a county board of education.

And any School employee that is a member of the Legislature is also party to the creating and passing of Laws that directly affect their employment by the County Boards of Educations.

Are any of the County employees of the County Commissioner, Sheriff, County Clerk, Circuit Clerk, Department of Highways or any other currently employed County employees ……. other than School employees …….. Legally permitted to serve in the Legislature?

by SamCogar Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:06 am

All I am telling you, Stephanie, is what the law says.

Cite the Statute for said, please. You can find it here, to wit:

West Virginia Code
http://www.legis.state.wv.us/WVCODE/Code.cfm

by **Stephanie** Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:49 am

Why thank you, Ziggy. I think he is adorable. (That pisses him off, when I say he's adorable) The thing on his head is a bandana......he's got a pair of sunglasses he pushed up there for the photo.

I'm not missing your point, Ziggy. I tried, I tried really hard for a decade and other than getting kicked around, got nowhere. I tried to warn Kathie Crouse when she said she was considering running for a seat on the local school board. Some little gems of wisdom you only learn from experience. I'd say she's gotten a bit of experience since filing her candidacy papers. Wouldn't you?

What should happen to the teacher, aide, and school principal involved in this incident? The aide & teacher still have jobs. They are still getting paid by the Putnam County School Board. The principal still has HIS job, he's still the administrator of Buffalo Elementary School. EVERYBODY knows this.

by wvsasha Fri Apr 30, 2010 9:23 am

I think the aide and teacher should have been fired.

by ziggy Fri Apr 30, 2010 11:52 am

SamCogar wrote:
All I am telling you, Stephanie, is what the law says.

Cite the Statute for said, please. You can find it here, to wit:

West Virginia Code
http://www.legis.state.wv.us/WVCODE/Code.cfm

Sam, it is mostly in Chapter 18, 18A, 18B and 18C- more voluminous than can be posted here. Look it up for yourself.

by ziggy Fri Apr 30, 2010 12:03 pm

SamCogar wrote:Teachers are hired by county boards of education. They are paid by county boards of education. Education facilities are owned by county boards of education. If they are fired- it is by their employer- a county board of education.

And any School employee that is a member of the Legislature is also party to the creating and passing of Laws that directly affect their employment by the County Boards of Educations.

Are any of the County employees of the County Commissioner, Sheriff, County Clerk, Circuit Clerk, Department of Highways or any other currently employed County employees ……. other than School employees …….. Legally permitted to serve in the Legislature?

Yes, apparently. Employees of these elected officials do not appear to be prohibited from doing so by the state Constitution. But there might or might not be state law that prohibits them from serving in the legislature.

But if you want county board of education employees to be prohibited by the Constitution from serving in the legislature, and there is a politically sufficient number of other people who agree with you, then get yourselves politically organized enough and you can make it happen.

by **Stephanie** Fri Apr 30, 2010 1:52 pm

Ziggy, I'm not going to stop doing what I am doing, which is raising awareness and making people THINK.

I did over a decade of beating my head against the wall in the State of Rhode Island. I got nowhere. I understand WHY I got nowhere in RI, I know what the education laws were in that state. I have no clue what may have changed in the meanwhile.

You want me to stop griping about the teachers, but I'm going to tell you something I learned pdq upon taking the oath of office as a member of the school committe, the teachers are responsible for their political actions. ALL teachers are responsible. Just as you are telling me I could organize and change things, so could they, and they could do it a whole lot quicker than I ever could.

Teachers elect their union representatives. Teachers are the people who chose to financially support and IDIOTS like Brady Paxton, who just successfully increased the compulsory attendance age from 16 to 17 in this state. TEACHERS do this because they have the most to gain.

Teachers have no interest in eliminating the provisions of the law that they KNOW are keeping folks like Von Francisco and Mike Mullins and Carolyn Rogers in schools and classrooms throughout not only the state of West Virginia, but the nation as well.

Hale said she had not researched all of the legal ramifications of the situation.

"As far as I know, parents are welcome to sit in classrooms at any time, if they go through the principal and are not disruptive," she said. "But it was my understanding that this woman was very disruptive in the classroom when she was visiting."

Where does AFT President Hale display her concern over the plight of the children in that classroom? Where has ANY public school teacher EVER said anything to indicate they want to make sure these women aren't allowed to work in a public school system again?

Mullins was not properly monitoring that classroom after receiving complaints. Mullins refused to transfer the student to another classroom. For weeks Mullins refused to allow the very concerned parent of a 5 y/o child to observe the classroom. Mullins still has his job. I don't know how he shows his face to the parents of children in that school. I wouldn't know him if I tripped over him, but boy I have a question or two I'd like to ask.

I cannot discern whether or not Francisco and/or Rogers are back in a classroom, but I can tell you they remain on the payroll. I spent the morning reading the minutes of PCSB's meetings since November 3rd and neither Rogers or Francisco has resigned or been terminated. In other words, they are still on the payroll. How long does it take to investigate taped audio recordings?

Krouse HUMILIATED Mullins, Rogers & Francisco and they made damn good and sure to get their pound of flesh, didn't they?

by wvsasha Fri Apr 30, 2010 3:36 pm

I think most teachers are afraid of helping oust one of their own because they feel that it could all to easily happen to them.

I have a male teacher friend who was on paid suspension a few years ago because one girl (middle school) said that he had mirrors taped to the top of his shoes so he could look up their skirts at one of the dances. This took almost 4 weeks to "investigate" - the girl was lying - she was pissed because she had failed his class and this was how she wanted to get him back - she confessed.

But now, whenever someone mentions his name - this is the incident they think of. Even being completely innocent, his reputation is slightly tarnished.

Accusations are extremely easy to make and one cannot ever completely remove the greasy fingerprints of a false accusation. And no one is completely safe from them.

So even when something comes along where it seems to be the cut-and-dried situation where the TEACHER SCREWED UP and SHOULD BE FIRED....there are times when weeks/months/years later something comes out allowing the 'rest of the story' to come to light....and things weren't so black and white. And all those torch and pitchfork holders scurry for the corners. No apologies made. Retractions seen p. 10, if at all in the newspaper.

If we aren't in the classroom and have direct knowledge of the situation, very few will come forward for fear of our own turn in the mud pit of accusations.

by **Stephanie** Fri Apr 30, 2010 5:17 pm

The more I think about this the more I feel compelled to call members of the school committee to complain about Mullins. He has just gotten away with far too much. Either he KNEW what was going on in that classroom and did nothing, or he never looked into it and either way he needs to go.

I should compile copies of all these articles, in chronological order and bring them with me next time I see my father. That way when he starts harrassing me again about how "that kid belongs in school" I can show him just what kind of individual runs the facility he would attend.

by SamCogar Fri Apr 30, 2010 5:29 pm

But if you want county board of education employees to be prohibited by the Constitution from serving in the legislature, and there is a politically sufficient number of other people who agree with you, then get yourselves politically organized enough and you can make it happen.

Zig, that is the same ole tired crap that you sit back down in and wallow around in ....... after blovating for dozens n' dozens of posts about what you claim to be "truth n' facts" even though you can't produce any.

Ya know, it's no sin to be a lonely and angry old man, but it is if you are constantly being a pain in the ass to everyone else because of it .

by ziggy Fri Apr 30, 2010 5:32 pm

(Stephanie) Ziggy, I'm not going to stop doing what I am doing, which is raising awareness and making people THINK.

I did over a decade of beating my head against the wall in the State of Rhode Island. I got nowhere. I understand WHY I got nowhere in RI, I know what the education laws were in that state. I have no clue what may have changed in the meanwhile.

You want me to stop griping about the teachers, but I'm going to tell you something I learned pdq upon taking the oath of office as a member of the school committe, the teachers are responsible for their political actions.

I am not asking you to stop doing what you are doing. I am saying that if you want to really change things, that you need to organize those who agree with you into an effective political force.

Just as you are telling me I could organize and change things, so could they, and they could do it a whole lot quicker than I ever could.

They are organized. But they do not agree with your agenda of doing away with tenure and then turning the education system back over to local politicians to run as their own little political fiefdoms- their local political machine- as was the case in many West Virginia counties 50 years ago.

by ziggy Fri Apr 30, 2010 5:38 pm

SamCogar wrote:
But if you want county board of education employees to be prohibited by the Constitution from serving in the legislature, and there is a politically sufficient number of other people who agree with you, then get yourselves politically organized enough and you can make it happen.

Zig, that is the same ole tired crap that you sit back down in and wallow around in ....... after blovating for dozens n' dozens of posts about what you claim to be "truth n' facts" even though you can't produce any.

Teachers got organized and became a political force to be reckoned with. So did the Chamber of Commerce, the Coal Association, the stop abortion advocates, the pro-abortion advocates, etc. The school reformers need to get similarly organized if they expect to effect any real change.

Ya know, it's no sin to be a lonely and angry old man, but it is if you are constantly being a pain in the ass to everyone else because of it .

Who am I angry at, Sam? And who am I being a pain in the ass to?

by Aaron Fri Apr 30, 2010 5:44 pm

ziggy wrote:So does the clause you cited in the state Constitution prohibit those contractors' employees from serving in the state legislature?

They're not state employees.

Teachers are.

by Aaron Fri Apr 30, 2010 5:46 pm

ziggy wrote:
Aaron wrote:You mean a Warren McGraw type court found teachers to be county teachers?

I don't know. But there ain't been a McGraw on the Court for a few years now. And no one is currently challenging the law as it is currently written in that regard- other than for empty rhetoric. I wonder why. Hmmmmmmmmmm ...............

We live in West Virginia and organized labor owns this state lock, stock and barrel. Don Blankenship’s millions have pretty much proven that. As I mentioned earlier, the fact that most county divisions of the State Board of Education are the largest employer’s in the county and they're not going to let go of their power and as I don't have millions, there's not a great deal I can do but I won't accept someone telling me the nose on my face is my ear though because it fits someone else’s agenda.

by SamCogar Fri Apr 30, 2010 5:49 pm

Sam, it is mostly in Chapter 18, 18A, 18B and 18C- more voluminous than can be posted here. Look it up for yourself.

So what you are saying is ........ you don't have any frigging idea where it is or even if it is in there. Razz

by SamCogar Fri Apr 30, 2010 6:07 pm

Stephanie wrote:The more I think about this the more I feel compelled to call members of the school committee to complain about Mullins. He has just gotten away with far too much. Either he KNEW what was going on in that classroom and did nothing, or he never looked into it and either way he needs to go.

I should compile copies of all these articles, in chronological order and bring them with me next time I see my father. That way when he starts harrassing me again about how "that kid belongs in school" I can show him just what kind of individual runs the facility he would attend.

Where did I miss whatever that was all about? geek

by **Stephanie** Fri Apr 30, 2010 6:19 pm

Just me venting, Sam. I typically visit my parents for a few days a year. My father manages to control himself until just before I leave but ultimately goes into a tirade about how Loyd belongs in school. He thinks my motives are good but once went on a tirade about the principal of his elementary school and how abusive he was and how his sisters "had to stay away from him because he was a pervert" and how he killed his wife and got away with it. That builds character, and makes you strong, being beaten with a rattan and fighting off perverts and madmen at a young age.

I don't know what good I think the BES story would do me.

by ziggy Fri Apr 30, 2010 6:20 pm

SamCogar wrote:
Sam, it is mostly in Chapter 18, 18A, 18B and 18C- more voluminous than can be posted here. Look it up for yourself.

So what you are saying is ........ you don't have any frigging idea where it is or even if it is in there.

Here you go, Sam:

Chapter 18 | Article 18 - 1

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 - DEFINITIONS; LIMITATIONS OF CHA
18 - 1 - 1
18 - 1 - 2
18 - 1 - 3
18 - 1 - 4

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2 - STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2A - ADOPTION OF TEXTBOOKS, INSTRUC

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2B - AREA VOCATIONAL PROGRAM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2C - HARASSMENT, INTIMIDATION OR BU

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2D - COMMUNITY EDUCATION

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2E - HIGH QUALITY EDUCATIONAL PROGR

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2F - INCENTIVES AND RESULTS BASED S

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2G - SCHOOL LIBRARY MEDIA IMPROVEME

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2H - PUBLIC NOTICE AND PARTICIPATIO

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2I - STAFF DEVELOPMENT COUNCILS

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2J - PUBLIC AND HIGHER EDUCATION UN

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2K - THE DIABETES CARE PLAN ACT

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
3 - STATE SUPERINTENDENT OF SCHOOLS

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
4 - COUNTY SUPERINTENDENT OF SCHOOL

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
5 - COUNTY BOARD OF EDUCATION

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
5A - LOCAL SCHOOL INVOLVEMENT

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
5B - SCHOOL INNOVATION ZONES ACT

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
6 - DRIVER EDUCATION

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
7 - ADULT LITERACY EDUCATION PROGRA

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
7A - STATE TEACHERS RETIREMENT SYST

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
7B - TEACHERS' DEFINED CONTRIBUTION

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
7C - MERGER OF TEACHERS' DEFINED CO

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
7D - VOLUNTARY TRANSFER FROM TEACHE

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
8 - COMPULSORY SCHOOL ATTENDANCE

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
8A - ATTENDANCE OF HOMELESS CHILDRE

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
9 - SCHOOL FINANCES

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
9A - PUBLIC SCHOOL SUPPORT

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
9B - STATE BOARD OF SCHOOL FINANCE

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
9C - STATE AID FOR CONSTRUCTION

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
9D - SCHOOL BUILDING AUTHORITY

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
9E - AIR QUALITY IN NEW SCHOOLS ACT

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
9F - SCHOOL ACCESS SAFETY ACT

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
10 - FEDERAL AID AND GIFTS FOR EDU

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
10A - REHABILITATION SERVICES

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
10B - VOCATIONAL REHABILITATION FA

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
10C - THE SOUTHERN REGIONAL EDUCAT

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
10D - COMPACT FOR EDUCATION

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
10E - INTERSTATE COMPACT ON QUALIF

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
10F - DISABLED PERSONS AND PUBLIC

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
10G - PROVIDING OF FOOD SERVICE IN

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
10H - ALBERT YANNI PROGRAMS OF EXC

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
10I - WEST VIRGINIA SUPPORTED EMPL

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
10J - BLIND PERSONS' LITERACY RIGH

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
10K - WEST VIRGINIA TRAUMATIC BRAI

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
10L - RON YOST PERSONAL ASSISTANCE

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
10M - WEST VIRGINIA INDEPENDENT LI

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
10N - INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY ACCES

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
10O - DISABILITY HISTORY WEEK

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
11 - WEST VIRGINIA UNIVERSITY

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
11A - REVENUE BONDS FOR UNIVERSITY

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
11B - REVENUE BONDS FOR UNIVERSITY

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
11C - WEST VIRGINIA UNIVERSITY HOS

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
11D - REVENUE BONDS FOR WEST VIRGI

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
11E - REVENUE BONDS FOR MARSHALL U

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
12 - STATE TEACHERS' COLLEGES

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
12A - REVENUE BONDS FOR MARSHALL U

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
12B - REVENUE BONDS FOR STATE INST

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
13 - WEST VIRGINIA STATE COLLEGE

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
14 - BLUEFIELD STATE COLLEGE

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
15 - WEST VIRGINIA INSTITUTE OF TE

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
16 - ANTIHAZING LAW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
17 - WEST VIRGINIA SCHOOLS FOR THE

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
18 - WEST VIRGINIA SCHOOL FOR THE

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
19 - EDUCATIONAL OPPORTUNITIES FOR

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
20 - EDUCATION OF EXCEPTIONAL CHIL

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
21 - UNDERWOOD-SMITH TEACHER SCHOL

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
22 - HIGHER EDUCATION FULL-TIME FA

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
22A - EMINENT SCHOLARS ENDOWMENT T

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
22B - STATE SCHOLARSHIP PROGRAM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
22C - STATE AID FOR STUDENTS ATTEN

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
22D - HIGHER EDUCATION STUDENT ASS

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
22E - DISTINGUISHED PROFESSORS END

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
23 - ADDITIONAL POWERS, DUTIES AND

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
24 - FEES AND OTHER MONEY COLLECTE

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
25 - TAX DEFERRED INVESTMENTS FOR

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
26 - WEST VIRGINIA BOARD OF REGENT

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
26A - STATE AUTISM TRAINING CENTER

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
26B - CLASSIFIED EMPLOYEE SALARY S

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
26C - INSTITUTE FOR PUBLIC AFFAIRS

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
26D - INSTITUTE FOR INTERNATIONAL

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
27 - WEST VIRGINIA EDUCATION LOAN

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
28 - PRIVATE, PAROCHIAL OR CHURCH

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
29 - GRIEVANCE PROCEDURE

by Sponsored content