Re: KKK to build shrine near '63 church bombing.

by Cato Sun Aug 22, 2010 2:49 pm

ziggy wrote:
There are several million Muslims in this nation, where is their voice? I certainly haven't heard it and if you are honest, niether have you. Silence speaks volumes by the way.

Kind of like as the KKK wrecked havoc in the south for more than a century, Southern Baptists and other fundamentalist "Christians" were largely silent- especially as many of their own wore white shirts and neckties on Sunday morning, and white robes and pointed hoods at night- weilding another kind of "necktie" against blacks and Jews.

As I said silence speaks volumes, be the silent party Christian or Muslim.

by **Stephanie** Mon Aug 23, 2010 7:40 am

I disagree with the notion that American Muslims have been silent when it comes to the radicalism of Islam. They just have never received much attention until Cordoba House.

by Cato Mon Aug 23, 2010 9:12 am

Stephanie wrote:I disagree with the notion that American Muslims have been silent when it comes to the radicalism of Islam. They just have never received much attention until Cordoba House.

You can disagree with me until the cows come home, that doesn't make it so that American Muslims have been vocal against their islamic extrememist brethern. If you want to prove me worng, show me, book, chapter, verse, the outcry by American Muslims against islamic extremeism. I'll tell you want you will find. You'll find some token discussion, but little else. You can blame the media, but that isn't going to wash either.

It is as I have told Ziggy, it makes no difference the religious affilation, SILENCE SPEAKS VOLUMES and on the issue of radical islam, American Muslims have been silent.

by **Stephanie** Mon Aug 23, 2010 9:16 am

Muslim groups have taken out full page ads in major newspapers, Cato.

I don't know what you'd have them do.

by TerryRC Mon Aug 23, 2010 9:40 am

There are several million Muslims in this nation, where is their voice? I certainly haven't heard it and if you are honest, niether have you. Silence speaks volumes by the way.

I have heard them since 9/12. You were deliberately ignoring the voices.

[url]http://groups.colgate.edu/aarislam/response.htm[url]

You want religious freedom for thee, but not for others.

by Cato Mon Aug 23, 2010 10:58 am

Stephanie wrote:Muslim groups have taken out full page ads in major newspapers, Cato.

I don't know what you'd have them do.

Did you know that the Koran allows for the deception of infidels and lying in the advancement of their religion?

Who are these groups and did they put their individaul names on the articles. Where are the links to these ad? Why don't you post some links so we can see these ads?

Speaking on a personal basis, and I did this once, by the way, I would walk away and reject the religious group I was affliliated with.

by **Stephanie** Mon Aug 23, 2010 11:50 am

* “Hijacking Planes, terrorizing innocent people and shedding blood constitute a form of injustice that can not be tolerated by Islam, which views them as gross crimes and sinful acts.” Shaykh Abdul Aziz al-Ashaikh (Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia and Chairman of the Senior Ulama, on September 15th, 2001)

*The terrorists acts, from the perspective of Islamic law, constitute the crime of hirabah (waging war against society).” Sept. 27, 2001 fatwa, signed by:
Shaykh Yusuf al-Qaradawi (Grand Islamic Scholar and Chairman of the Sunna and Sira Countil, Qatar)
Judge Tariq al-Bishri, First Deputy President of the Council d’etat, Egypt
Dr. Muhammad s. al-Awa, Professor of Islamic Law and Shari’a, Egypt
Dr. Haytham al-Khayyat, Islamic scholar, Syria
Fahmi Houaydi, Islamic scholar, Syria
Shaykh Taha Jabir al-Alwani, Chairman, North America High Council

*“Neither the law of Islam nor its ethical system justify such a crime.” Zaki Badawi, Principal of the Muslim College in London. Cited in Arab News, Sept. 28, 2001.

*“It is wrong to kill innocent people. It is also wrong to Praise those who kill innocent people.” Mufti Nizamuddin Shamzai, Pakistan. Cited in NY Times, Sept. 28, 2001.

*“What these people stand for is completely against all the principles that Arab Muslims believe in.” King Abdullah II, of Jordan; cited in Middle East Times, Sept. 28, 2001.

The above statements by high ranking international Muslim scholars appeared in an advertisement placed by the Becket Fund for Religious Liberty, in the NY Times, October 17th, 2001 (p. A 17)

by **Stephanie** Mon Aug 23, 2010 11:52 am

Bin Laden's violence is a heresy against Islam

By Tim Winter (aka Dr. Abdul Hakim Murad)

IN what sense were the World Trade Centre bombers members of Islam? This

question has been sidelined by many Western analysts impatient with the

niceties of theology; but it may be the key to understanding the recent

attacks, and assessing the long-term prospects for peace in the Muslim

world.

Certainly, neither bin Laden nor his principal associate, Ayman

al-Zawahiri, are graduates of Islamic universities or seminaries. And so

their proclamations ignore 14 centuries of Muslim scholarship, and

instead take the form of lists of anti-American grievances and of

Koranic quotations referring to early Muslim wars against Arab

idolators. These are followed by the conclusion that all Americans,

civilian and military, are to be wiped off the face of the Earth.

All this amounts to an odd and extreme violation of the normal methods

of Islamic scholarship. Had the authors of such fatwas followed the

norms of their religion, they would have had to acknowledge that no

school of traditional Islam allows the targeting of civilians. An

insurrectionist who kills non-combatants is guilty of baghy, "armed

transgression", a capital offence in Islamic law. A jihad can be

proclaimed only by a properly constituted state; anything else is pure

vigilantism.

Defining orthodoxy in the mainstream Sunni version of Islam is difficult

because the tradition has an egalitarian streak which makes it reluctant

to produce hierarchies. Theologians and muftis emerge through the

careful approval of their teachers, not because a formal teaching

licence has been given them by a church-like institution.

Despite this apparent informality, there is such a thing as normal Sunni

Muslim doctrine. It has been expressed fairly consistently down the

centuries as a belief system derived from the Muslim scriptures by

generations of learned comment. Until a few decades ago, a Koranic

commentary containing the author's personal views would have been

dismissed as outrageous. In the 19th century, the Iranian reformer known

as "the Bab" was declared to be outside the pale of Islam because he

ignored the accumulated discussions of centuries, and wrote a Koranic

commentary based on his own direct understanding of scripture.

The strangeness as well as the extremity of the New York attacks has

been reflected in the strenuous denunciations we have heard from Muslim

leaders around the world. For them, this has been a rare moment of

unity. Mohammed Tantawi, rector of Cairo's Al-Azhar University, the

highest institution of learning in the Sunni world, has bitterly

condemned the outrages. In Shi'ite Iran, Ayatollah Kashani called the

attacks "catastrophic", and demanded a global mobilisation against the

culprits. The Organisation of the Islamic Conference, normally well

known for its indecision, unanimously condemned "these savage and

criminal acts".

Why should apparently devout Muslims have defied the unanimous verdict

of Islamic law? The reasons - and the blame - are to be found on both

sides of the divide which, according to bin Laden, utterly separates the

West from Islam.

On the Western side, a reluctance to challenge the Israeli occupation of

Muslim holy sites in Jerusalem has unquestionably contributed to the

sidelining of mainstream Muslim voices in the Middle East. Those voices,

speaking cautiously from ancient religious universities and venerable

mosques, have been reluctant to exploit, rather than calm, the hatred of

the masses for Israeli policy, and thus for the United States. This

perceived failure to make a difference has allowed wilder, more

intransigent voices to gain credibility in a way that would have been

unimaginable before the capture of Arab Jerusalem in 1967.

It is unfair and simplistic, however, to claim that it is Western policy

that lit the fuse for last month's events. Without a theological

position justifying the rejection of the mainstream position, the

frustration with orthodoxy would have led to a frustration with religion

- and then to a search for secular responses.

That alternative theology does, however, exist. While Saudi Arabia

itself has been consistent in its opposition to terrorism, it has also

on occasion unwittingly nurtured revolutionary religious views. Before

the explosion of oil wealth in the 1960s, its Wahhabi creed was largely

unnoticed by the wider Islamic world. Those erudite Muslims who did know

about Wahhabism typically dismissed it as simple-minded Bedouin

puritanism with nothing to add to their central activity - exploring

Muslim strategies of accommodation with the modern world.

When I myself studied theology at Al-Azhar, we were told that Wahhabism

was heretical - not only because of issues such as its insistence that

the Koranic talk of God's likeness to humanity was to be taken

literally, but also because it implied a radical rejection of all Muslim

scholarship. Grey-bearded sheikhs departed from their usual

imperturbability to denounce the tragic consequences for Islam of the

claim that every believer should interpret the scriptures according to

his own lights.

This sort of radical move leads to liberal re-readings of the Koran, as

in the case of the South African theologian Farid Esack, who has

horrified traditionalists by advocating homosexual rights among Muslims.

Much more commonly, however, it allows young men whose anger has been

aroused by American policy in the Middle East to ignore the scholarly

consensus about the meaning of the Koran, and read their own

frustrations into the text

.

Another result of this rejection of traditional Islam has been the

notion that political power should be in the hands of men of religion.

When he came to power in 1979, Ayatollah Khomeini remarked that he had

achieved something utterly without precedent in Islamic history. The

Taliban, by ruling directly rather than advising hereditary rulers, have

similarly combined the "sword" and the "pen". Far from being a

traditionalist move, this is a new departure for Islam, and mainstream

scholarship regards it with deep suspicion.

Islamic civilisation has in the past proved capable of, for the times,

extraordinary feats of toleration. Under the Muslims, medieval Spain

became a haven for diverse religions and sects. Following the Christian

reconquest, the Inquisition eliminated all dissent. The notion that

Islamic civilisation is inherently less capable of tolerance and

compassion than any other is hard to square with the facts.

Muslims none the less have to face the challenge posed by the new

heresies. The Muslim world can ill afford to lapse into bigotry at a

point in history when dialogue and conviviality have never been more

important.

It is a relief that the mainstream theologians have come out so

unanimously against the terrorists. What we must now ask them is to

campaign more strongly against the aberrant doctrines that underpin

them.

Both "sides", therefore, have a responsibility to act. The West must

drain the swamp of rage by securing a fair resolution of the Palestinian

tragedy. But it is the responsibility of the Islamic world to de- feat

the terrorist aberration theologically.

* Tim Winter (Abdul Hakim Murad) a Muslim, is lecturer in Islamic Studies at the

University of Cambridge

by **Stephanie** Mon Aug 23, 2010 11:55 am

Sheikh Yusuf Al-Qaradawi Condemns Attacks Against Civilians: Forbidden in Islam

Sheikh Yusuf Al-Qaradawi Condemns Attacks Against Civilians: Forbidden in Islam

DOHA, Qatar, Sept 13 (IslamOnline & News Agencies) - Renowned Muslim scholar Sheikh Yusuf al-Qaradawi denounced the attacks against civilians in the U.S. Tuesday and encouraged Muslims to donate blood to the victims of the attack.

In response to the bloody attack against civilians in the U.S., Sheikh Yusuf issued a statement Wednesday saying that:

"Our hearts bleed for the attacks that has targeted the World Trade Center [WTC], as well as other institutions in the United States despite our strong oppositions to the American biased policy towards Israel on the military, political and economic fronts.

"Islam, the religion of tolerance, holds the human soul in high esteem, and considers the attack against innocent human beings a grave sin, this is backed by the Qur'anic verse which reads:

Who so ever kills a human being for other than manslaughter or corruption in the earth, it shall be as if he has killed all mankind, and who so ever saves the life of one, it shall be as if he had saved the life of all mankind," (Al-Ma'dah:32).

"The Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, is reported to have said, 'A believer remains within the scope of his religion as long as he doesn't kill another person illegally'," the prominent scholar said.

He added that haphazard killing where the rough is taken with the smooth and where innocents are killed along with wrongdoers is totally forbidden in Islam. No one, as far as Islam is concerned, is held responsible for another's actions. Upon seeing a woman killed in the battlefield, the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, denied the act and said: "That woman shouldn't have been killed anyway!".

Even in times of war, Muslims are not allowed to kill anybody save the one who is indulged in face-to-face confrontation with them. They are not allowed to kill women, old persons, children, or even a monk in his religious seclusion.

Qaradawi then asserted that is why killing hundreds of helpless civilians who have nothing to do with the decision-making process and are striving hard to earn their daily bread, such as the victims of the latest explosions in America, is a heinous crime in Islam. The Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, is reported to have stated that a woman was qualified to enter Hell because of the cat she locked up to death.

"If such is the ruling applied in protecting animals, no doubt, aggression against human beings, a fortiori, deserves greater protection, for human beings are honored by Allah Almighty and are His vicegerents on earth," he added.

Al Qaradawi said, "we Arab Muslims are the most affected by the grave consequences of hostile attack on man and life. We share the suffering experienced by innocent Palestinians at the hands of the tyrannical Jewish entity who raze the Palestinian homes to the ground, set fire to their tilth, kill them cold-bloodedly, and leave innocent orphans wailing behind.

"With this in mind, the daily life in Palestine has become a permanent memorial gathering. When Palestinians face such unjust aggression, they tend to stem bloodletting and destruction and not to claim the lives of innocent civilians."

"I categorically go against a committed Muslim's embarking on such attacks. Islam never allows a Muslim to kill the innocent and the helpless.

"If such attacks were carried out by a Muslim - as some biased groups claim - then we, in the name of our religion, deny the act and incriminate the perpetrator. We do confirm that the aggressor deserves the deterrent punishment irrespective of his religion, race or gender," he added.

"What we warn against, even if becomes a reality, is to hold a whole nation accountable for a crime carried out by a limited number of people or to characterize a certain religion as a faith giving support to violence and terrorism," Qaradawi said.

Qaradawi clarified that when the well-known Oklahoma incident was carried out by a Christian American, who was driven by a personal interests, Christianity, America or even the Christian world, were not accused of the attack because a Christian masterminded it.

"I have been asked several questions on TV programs and on public lectures about the martyr operations outside the Palestinian territories, and I always answer that I do agree with those who do not allow such martyr operations to be carried out outside the Palestinian territories.

"Instead we should concentrate on facing the occupying enemy directly. It is not permissible, as far as Islam is concerned, to shift confrontation outside the Palestinian territories. This is backed by the Qur'anic verse that reads: "Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! Allah loves not, aggressors," the renowned Muslim scholar concluded.

by **Stephanie** Mon Aug 23, 2010 12:02 pm

Islamic world deplores US losses

Friday, 14 September, 2001, 19:26 GMT 20:26 UK

During Friday prayers Muslim clerics in the Arab world have strongly condemned Tuesday's attacks in America.

It's not courage in any way to kill an innocent person, or to kill thousands of people, including men and women and children

Sheik Mohammed Sayed Tantawi

Syria's most senior Islamic leader described the attacks on America as a terrorist act, as ignoble as what he called the state terrorism practised by Israel.

Hundreds of Palestinians also rallied in the West Bank city of Ramallah to show support for Americans killed in the attacks, as well as condemn Israeli killing of Palestinians in Jenin.

And in Iran, Tehran's main football stadium observed an unprecedented minute's silence in sympathy with the victims.

'State terrorism'

Iran's Ayatollah Imami Kashani spoke of a catastrophic act of terrorism which could only be condemned by all Muslims, adding the whole world should mobilise against terrorism.

There were many expressions of sympathy throughout the Arab world

But if its roots were really to be tackled, terrorism and its practitioners would have to be defined, he said, pointing to Israel and calling it a "terrorist state which was killing children".

America's support and its arrogant policies around the world might help to explain the brutalism of the hijackers, he added.

On Thursday night, people who tried to stage a commemorative vigil in central Tehran, in spite of the ban on public gatherings, were broken up by police and Islamic volunteers.

'Barbaric acts'

The head of al-Azhar in Cairo, one of Sunni Islam's highest religious authority, said attacking innocent people was not courageous, but stupid and would be punished on Judgement Day.

Christianity, America, or the Christian world were not accused because a Christian masterminded [Oklahoma]

Gaza City imam

"It's not courage in any way to kill an innocent person, or to kill thousands of people, including men and women and children," said Sheik Mohammed Sayed Tantawi.

In Lebanon the spiritual leader of the Shia guerrilla group, Hezbollah, called the attacks "barbaric acts".

He added even though Muslims were opposed to the American Government because of its support for Israel, the American people should not be blamed.

No mention

One imam in the Nuseirat refugee camp outside Gaza City said Islam should not be tarred by association, even if chief suspect Osama Bin Laden was eventually tied to the attack.

The imam pointed to the lessons of the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing, in which he said "Christianity, America, or the Christian world were not accused because a Christian masterminded it."

In Iraq, a nationally televised sermon from Baghdad's al-Azam mosque urged that no tears be shed for "tyrants whose hands are stained with the blood of our people".

And at the al-Ansar mosque in the West Bank town of Hebron, where supporters of the militant Islamic movement Hamas were heavily represented among worshippers, the sermon did not mention the US attacks.

by **Stephanie** Mon Aug 23, 2010 12:06 pm

The Islamic Circle of North America (ICNA) is extremely horrified and saddened by the tragedy in New York and Washington D.C.
Our hearts and prayers are with the families of the victims of this horrible and despicable crime.
We condemn this heinous act and call upon our political leaders and the media to act responsibly,
and not generalize when speculating about the perpetrators.
Islam does not permit such unjust actions.
Muslims are not terrorists and we condemn any terrorist attack against all people.

There were several hundred Muslims working in the World Trade Center.
And, a large number of Muslims used to offer Friday prayer in the World Trade Center.
There are many Muslims, who are still among the missing.

We appreciate and thank President Bush for acknowledging that American Muslims and Arab American are also saddened by this terrorist attack
and by making it clear that any hate crime against Muslims will not be tolerated.

Our hearts are with those who have lost loved ones in this terrible tragedy and our prayers are with the departed souls.

The Islamic Circle of North America declares Friday, September 12, 2001, a day of mourning and prayers.
All the Muslims are requested to make special prayers for the dead and the injured and also for the suffering families.

by **Stephanie** Mon Aug 23, 2010 12:07 pm

Do you want more?

by Cato Mon Aug 23, 2010 12:51 pm

Stephanie wrote:Do you want more?

Yes, because that isn't even a start. All I see is token words by fringe groups and unknown people. Additionally, In the article by Tim Winter he goes on place the blame on the west for supporting Israel, when the blame belongs directly in the laps of islam.

Further, the Oklahoma Bomber who was also cited never claimed to have done his act in the name of any God. The writer who envoked his name made a comparison that is completely invalid.

by TerryRC Mon Aug 23, 2010 12:56 pm

Yes, because that isn't even a start. All I see is token words by fringe groups and unknown people. Additionally, In the article by Tim Winter he goes on place the blame on the west for supporting Israel, when the blame belongs directly in the laps of islam.

No amount of apology would be good enough for willy. Even though he has [wrongly] said that US muslims are quiet on the subject. http://www.mediamonitors.net/riadabdelkarim3.html

Even though muslim leaders came right out with apologies and statements that what the 9/11 perpetrators did was EVIL, willy has it in his mind that they did not and he doesn't let facts get in the way of his beliefs.

by **Stephanie** Mon Aug 23, 2010 1:07 pm

Forget the rallies, the vigils, the moments of silence, the statements of outrage from Muslim groups, imams, and heads of state.....nothing would ever be enough for him because he's a hate monger.

I'm sure is god is very pleased.

by Aaron Mon Aug 23, 2010 1:10 pm

Stephanie wrote:

I'm sure is god is very pleased.

I think you meant his God and if so, his God and the Muslim God are one and the same, at least according to the Old Testament of the King James Bible.

by TerryRC Mon Aug 23, 2010 1:20 pm

Did you know that the Koran allows for the deception of infidels and lying in the advancement of their religion?

Not true. From the Haddith: “Lying is wrong, except in three things: the lie of a man to his wife to make her content with him; a lie to an enemy, for war is deception; or to lie to settle trouble between people.” Where do you see that lying is OK if it is to non-believers?

"Did you know there is no blanket Commandment against lying in the bible, only a Commandment against "bearing false witness against thy neighbor", a specific and despicable kind of lie.?

I see people lying in the name of christianity all of the time, like when people say that the muslim world was silent about speaking out against 9/11...

by **Stephanie** Mon Aug 23, 2010 7:18 pm

I did Aaron. I'm still quite sure his god is very pleased.

by Cato Tue Aug 24, 2010 7:10 am

TerryRC wrote:Did you know that the Koran allows for the deception of infidels and lying in the advancement of their religion?

Not true. From the Haddith: “Lying is wrong, except in three things: the lie of a man to his wife to make her content with him; a lie to an enemy, for war is deception; or to lie to settle trouble between people.” Where do you see that lying is OK if it is to non-believers?

"Did you know there is no blanket Commandment against lying in the bible, only a Commandment against "bearing false witness against thy neighbor", a specific and despicable kind of lie.?

I see people lying in the name of christianity all of the time, like when people say that the muslim world was silent about speaking out against 9/11...

Unfortunately, passages from the Qur’an clearly reveal that lying is permitted, particularly in reference to non-believers in conflict with Muslims. It is also clear that if forced to do so, Muslims may lie under oath and can even falsely deny faith in Allah, as long as they maintain the profession of faith in their hearts. In the Qur’an, Allah says: "Allah will not call you to account for thoughtlessness (vain) in your oaths, but for the intention in your hearts; and He is Oft-forgiving, Most Forbearing." Surah 2:225. The principal also has support in the Qur’an 3:28 and 16:106.

Read Article Here

Also from the same article -

"Liars when they speak the truth are not believed". Aristotle

by Cato Tue Aug 24, 2010 7:16 am

Speaking of Liars, Maybe you can explain these away -

Allah is an enemy to unbelievers. - Sura 2:98

On unbelievers is the curse of Allah. - Sura 2:161

Slay them wherever ye find them and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. - 2:191

Fight against them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme. (different translation: ) Fight them until there is no persecution and the religion is God's entirely. - Sura 2:193 and 8:39

Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it. - 2:216
(different translation: ) Prescribed for you is fighting, though it is hateful to you.

..... martyrs.... Enter heaven - Surah 3:140-43

If you should die or be killed in the cause of Allah, His mercy and forgiveness would surely be better than all they riches they amass. If you should die or be killed, before Him you shall all be gathered. - 3:157-8

You must not think that those who were slain in the cause of Allah are dead. They are alive, and well-provided for by their Lord. - Surah 3:169-71

Let those fight in the cause of God who sell the life of this world for the hereafter. To him who fights in the cause of God, whether he is slain or victorious, soon we shall give him a great reward. - Surah 4:74

Those who believe fight in the cause of God, and those who reject faith fight in the cause of evil. - 4:76

But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever you find them. - 4:89

Therefore, we stirred among them enmity and hatred, which shall endure till the Day of Resurrection, when Allah will declare to them all that they have done. - 5:14

O believers, take not Jews and Christians as friends; they are friends of each other. Those of you who make them his friends is one of them. God does not guide an unjust people. - 5:54

Make war on them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme - 8:39

O Prophet! Exhort the believers to fight. If there are 20 steadfast men among you, they shall vanquish 200; and if there are a hundred, they shall rout a thousand unbelievers, for they are devoid of understanding. - 8:65

It is not for any Prophet to have captives until he has made slaughter in the land. - 8:67

Allah will humble the unbelievers. Allah and His apostle are free from obligations to idol-worshipers. Proclaim a woeful punishment to the unbelievers. - 9:2-3

When the sacred months are over, slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them. - 9:5

Believers! Know that idolators are unclean. - 9:28

Fight those who believe neither in God nor the Last Day, nor what has been forbidden by God and his messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, even if they are People of the Book, until they pay the tribute and have been humbled. - 9:29 (another source: ) The unbelievers are impure and their abode is hell. (another source: ) Humiliate the non-Muslims to such an extent that they surrender and pay tribute.

Whether unarmed or well-equipped, march on and fight for the cause of Allah, with your wealth and your persons. - 9:41

O Prophet! Make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites. Be harsh with them. Their ultimate abode is hell, a hapless journey's end. - 9:73

Allah has purchased of their faithful lives and worldly goods, and in return has promised them the Garden. They will fight for His cause, kill and be killed. - 9:111

Fight unbelievers who are near to you. 9:123 (different translation:
Believers! Make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Let them find harshness in you. (another source: ) Ye who believe! Murder those of the disbelievers....

As for those who are slain in the cause of Allah, He will not allow their works to perish. He will vouchsafe them guidance and ennoble their state; He will admit them to the Paradise He has made known to them. - 10:4-15

Allah has cursed the unbelievers and proposed for them a blazing hell. - 33:60

Unbelievers are enemies of Allah and they will roast in hell. - 41:14

When you meet the unbelievers, smite their necks, then when you have made wide slaughter among them, tie fast the bonds, then set them free, either by grace or ransom, until the war lays down its burdens. - 47:4
(different translation: ) When you meet the unbelievers in the battlefield, strike off their heads, and when you have laid them low, bind your captives firmly.

Those who are slain in the way of Allah - he will never let their deeds be lost. Soon will he guide them and improve their condition, and admit them to the Garden, which he has announced for them. - 47:5

Muslims are harsh against the unbelievers, merciful to one another. - 48:25

Muhammad is Allah's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another. Through them, Allah seeks to enrage the unbelievers. - 48:29

Prophet! Make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal sternly with them. Hell shall be their home, evil their fate. - 66:9

The unbelievers among the People of the Book and the pagans shall burn forever in the fire of hell. They are the vilest of all creatures. - 98:51

Fight them so that Allah may punish them at your hands, and put them to shame. (verse cited in Newsweek 2/11/02)

by Cato Tue Aug 24, 2010 7:27 am

TerryRC wrote:
"Did you know there is no blanket Commandment against lying in the bible, only a Commandment against "bearing false witness against thy neighbor", a specific and despicable kind of lie.?

Col 3:9 - Do not lie to one another, since you laid aside the old self with its evil practices,

1 Timothy 1:5-11 5 But the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. 6 For some men, straying from these things, have turned aside to fruitless discussion, 7 wanting to be teachers of the Law, even though they do not understand either what they are saying or the matters about which they make confident assertions. 8 But we know that the Law is good, if one uses it lawfully, 9 realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers 10 and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching, according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted. R35

TerryRC wrote: I see people lying in the name of christianity all of the time, like when people say that the muslim world was silent about speaking out against 9/11...

You can make all sorts of accusations Terry, but the facts remain the facts, the only speaking out that has taken place has been token in nature. Additionally, since their very religion does permit lying in the name of their god for the advancement of their religion, they have done nothing to prove the me or any other thinking person that they actually believe what they are saying.

by ziggy Tue Aug 24, 2010 11:13 am

.............. they have done nothing to prove the me or any other thinking person .....................

by SamCogar Tue Aug 24, 2010 2:22 pm

Stephanie wrote:Muslim groups have taken out full page ads in major newspapers, Cato..

Was any of those full page ads against the Fatwa demanding the death of Salman Rushdie?

by Cato Wed Aug 25, 2010 7:32 am

SamCogar wrote:
Stephanie wrote:Muslim groups have taken out full page ads in major newspapers, Cato..

Was any of those full page ads against the Fatwa demanding the death of Salman Rushdie?

No, Ziggy would have you believe that was a vast right wing conspiracy conceived by Sarah Palin and carried out by the right wing media to embarrass Ziggy's muslim pals.

by **Stephanie** Wed Aug 25, 2010 8:00 am

SamCogar wrote:
Stephanie wrote:Muslim groups have taken out full page ads in major newspapers, Cato..

Was any of those full page ads against the Fatwa demanding the death of Salman Rushdie?

I don't think the Rushdie thing rises to the level of the 9/11 attacks. Do you?

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