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Paul reportedly reverses on core campaign pledge

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Post by ziggy Wed Nov 10, 2010 12:42 am

I would love to find out that this is an erroneous article. We'll see.

Money talks.

Rand Paul, the next Republican US senator from Kentucky, has done an about-face on earmarks even before taking office.

In an interview published over the weekend with the Wall Street Journal, Paul signaled a major backtrack on a core campaign promise: cutting federal earmarks. The promise is a hallmark of Republican candidates of all stripes, who advocate that a smaller government is in the national interest and that money doled out for special progress is tantamount to backroom dealing.

"In a bigger shift from his campaign pledge to end earmarks, he tells me that they are a bad "symbol" of easy spending but that he will fight for Kentucky's share of earmarks and federal pork, as long as it's doled out transparently at the committee level and not parachuted in in the dead of night," Paul told the Journal for an interview published Saturday.

"I will advocate for Kentucky's interests," he added.

Complete article at:

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/11/flipflop-rand-paul-quietly-reverses-earmarks-i-advocate-kentuckys-interests/
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Post by Stephanie Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:39 am

Should he allow his constituents be taxed to pay for ear marks for the citizens of other states while Kentucky goes without?

I'm not at all surprised Rand Paul is going to fight for earmarks for Kentucky. What does surprise me is he would ever promise not to take advantage of earmarks for the citizens of Kentucky when Senators from the other states are.
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Post by Ich bin Ala-awkbarph Wed Nov 10, 2010 5:52 am

That's not what Paul, Rand on.
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Post by Stephanie Wed Nov 10, 2010 8:51 am

Rand Paul did speak out against earmarks during his successful (yippee!)Senate campaign. Here is the actual transcript of his remarks to WSJ reporter Matthew Kaminski who, in my opinion, has totally distorted Senator-elect Paul's statement.

Rand Paul and Earmarks

In my Weekend Interview with Rand Paul last Saturday, the new Senator-elect from Kentucky appeared to soften his fervent opposition during the campaign to earmarks and pork-barrel spending. I reported the shift, while noting his continued distaste for earmarks as a symbol of runaway spending and his eagerness to change the way such spending gets appropriated.

His comments have since attracted attention and criticism, and his aides now say that I misunderstood his comments. I stand by the story as written, but in the interest of full disclosure we are posting the full transcript of the relevant section of the interview below. Readers can draw their own conclusions.

Question: What if someone comes to you and says here's an earmark, mind turning a blind eye to this?

Mr. Paul: The earmarks are a really small percentage of the budget but I think they symbolize a lot of the waste and I think we shouldn't do it. I tell people and told people throughout the primaries as well as the general election that I will advocate for Kentucky's interests. There are money that will be spent in Kentucky. But I will advocate in the committee process. And I think that's the way it should be done. Roads, highways, bridges, things that we need as far as infrastructure, let's go through the committee process, find out, when was this bridge last repaired? How much of a problem is it? Are there fatalities on this road that's not wide enough? Let's use objective evidence to figure out, you know, where the money should be spent. But not put it on in the dead of night, have some clerk in your office stick it on because you're powerful and you stick it on, and you attach your name to it.

Q: So if Roy Blunt calls you up, tells you, 'hey, I want to get this bridge built in southern Missouri'?

Mr. Paul: I think we can do it if I'm on the transportation committee, we discuss it and we find out his bridge is more important than the bridge in Louisville, or more important than the bridge in northern Kentucky. I think that's the way legislating should occur. You work it out, you find out, and then you should say how much money do you have? Right now we just write a blank check and we just say, well, what do you want. I mean, nobody has any concept, they have no restraint. What you need is in the committee process to know that we have X billions in our budget this year, because that's all the money we have. Instead they just say, 'What do you want to spend?' It's all about what do you want instead of what do you have.


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Post by Aaron Wed Nov 10, 2010 8:58 am

Stephanie wrote:Should he allow his constituents be taxed to pay for ear marks for the citizens of other states while Kentucky goes without?

Why wouldn't he? John McCain doesn't request them and if they're ever going to stop then people like Paul who were elected based on a promise made would not backtrack.

And besides, Mitch McConnell can get Kentuckians all the ear marks they need. Paul doesn't have to waffle on a campaign promise. He looks like just another politican coming out of the gate.

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Post by SheikBen Wed Nov 10, 2010 9:10 am

Ziggy,

Some federal money is going to be spent in Kentucky and South Carolina, and wherever else tea party Senators are from. The problem is that earmarks are slipped into legislation without being addressed in the open with debate. If a vets' hospital or a bridge really ought to go to Kentucky and on the federal dime, I see no reason why it shouldn't, provided that the necessary debate has occurred and it is found that it is a prudent use of federal dollars.

I do not think that is what is meant by "earmarks" when they are condemned by the average tea party type.

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Post by Stephanie Wed Nov 10, 2010 9:14 am

Read what he actually said.
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Post by Stephanie Wed Nov 10, 2010 9:39 am

If they don't know what the money is going to be spent on, how are they to know how much money to authorize?
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Post by Aaron Wed Nov 10, 2010 9:40 am

I did. What he did not say is no to earmarks. During the campaign, he did. The two are not the same. What Paul has to understand is that he will be under a microscope by the national liberal media and they will take every slip like this one and blow it completely out of proportion.

When ask about earmarks, he should have said that he will oppose them with the same fervor he did on the campaign trail. To do any less makes it appear he is another backtracking politician that said what he needed to get elected and then once the seat was his, shed his TEA Party skin.

Politically speaking, he's young. Hopefully he will learn.
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Post by Aaron Wed Nov 10, 2010 9:45 am

Stephanie wrote:If they don't know what the money is going to be spent on, how are they to know how much money to authorize?

It is not the Congressional job to micromanage how every dollar is spent. That's what has us, oh about $14,000,000,000,000.00 in debt. They allocate money to federal agencies and then allow those with the experience to distribute that money as needed.

The job of congress is to determine how much each agency needs and if they're not busy making deals and earmarking for pet projects, perhaps they actually start reducing the money allocated to each agency.

If Paul wants to keep his promises, perhaps he should look for ways to start cutting money in committee instead of considering earmarks regardless of how transparent the process is.
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Post by Stephanie Wed Nov 10, 2010 9:46 am

I have a lot of confidence in Rand Paul. I fail to see how any reasonable person could come to any conclusion other than his statement was misinterpreted, or mischaracterized. Pick your poison.

I don't expect Rand Paul to be a carbon copy of his father, he is his own man. I do think he has watched his father and learned from him and will continue to learn from him. He is one of only two US Senators I have any faith in at all.

Senator Paul.........hahaha...I love saying that Smile
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Post by Stephanie Wed Nov 10, 2010 9:50 am

They allocate money to federal agencies and then allow those with the experience to distribute that money as needed.


Really? Like they have done with Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac? Look how well that has worked out.
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Post by SheikBen Wed Nov 10, 2010 10:22 am

The last comment of the quote was most interesting to me: "It's not about what you want but about what you have." The kind of greed that facilitated the housing mess is evident in governments as well. We seem to have a needs-based model (or, worse, wants based model) instead of a means-based model. What do we have and how is it working? If it ain't broke, there is no sense in fixing it.

We have I-180 out this way, a four lane interstate that connects the middle of nowhere with Hennepin, its capital. Hennepin is no larger than 800. Why exactly is there 15 miles of highway connecting nowhere with a city a fracion of the population of Nitro? The lust for federal dollars, no matter how meaningless their intended use.

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Post by Aaron Wed Nov 10, 2010 10:24 am

Stephanie wrote:
They allocate money to federal agencies and then allow those with the experience to distribute that money as needed.


Really? Like they have done with Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac? Look how well that has worked out.

I curious Stephanie, does this mean you support earmarks?

At any rate, FM/FM are not the result of earmarks, they are the result of improperly or improperly enforced (I'm not a banking expert so I don't know which) oversight and came about as a result of too much Congressional interference and mismanagement, not because of earmarks.

Your analogy is inaccurate.
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Post by Aaron Wed Nov 10, 2010 10:30 am

SheikBen wrote:The last comment of the quote was most interesting to me: "It's not about what you want but about what you have." The kind of greed that facilitated the housing mess is evident in governments as well. We seem to have a needs-based model (or, worse, wants based model) instead of a means-based model. What do we have and how is it working? If it ain't broke, there is no sense in fixing it.

We have I-180 out this way, a four lane interstate that connects the middle of nowhere with Hennepin, its capital. Hennepin is no larger than 800. Why exactly is there 15 miles of highway connecting nowhere with a city a fracion of the population of Nitro? The lust for federal dollars, no matter how meaningless their intended use.

I understand your question is rhetorical SB but I'd like to address the question highlighted above. The answer is earmarks. A Senator or Representative in IL who either wanted to reward a contractor or had a family member or friend in Hennepin who didn't want to travel 29 to 80 made a deal with another representative to funnel federal dollars for that project. It's the kind of crap that goes on in Washington, which Paul backtracked on and said he would work for "Kentuckians" to ensure they get their dollars and the reason we're so far in debt.

Earmarks are also the reason Putnam and Mason County residents are going to be forced to pay a toll on Route 35 as West Virginia lawmakers cannot take money from unneeded Corridor H or the Fairmont bypass to complete the long overdue Route 35.
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Post by Stephanie Wed Nov 10, 2010 10:45 am

You don't like my analogy? Take your pick, Aaron. Nearly every federal agency is wrought with waste & abuse. We're talking about billions of dollars just pissed away.

I like the idea of smaller government, that's what I like the idea of. If I had my way many federal agencies would simply be disbanded like the Departments of Education and Homeland Security. All they do is add layers of bureaucracy, increase cost and decrease results.

I simply don't think earmarks are the problem, they are but a symptom. I hope Jay or Joe or Shelley can secure an earmark to finish Route 35. It should be discussed in committee, there should be debate. It should be transparent. The people should know what projects their money is to be spent on and the people elected to govern should have some say over how taxpayer dollars are spent.

Our Senators and our Representatives are accountable to the citizens of West Virginia. They know what projects are important to West Virginians and to our economy. Some overpaid, hand-selected political crony does not.

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Post by Cato Wed Nov 10, 2010 11:23 am

Stephanie wrote:You don't like my analogy? Take your pick, Aaron. Nearly every federal agency is wrought with waste & abuse. We're talking about billions of dollars just pissed away.

I like the idea of smaller government, that's what I like the idea of. If I had my way many federal agencies would simply be disbanded like the Departments of Education and Homeland Security. All they do is add layers of bureaucracy, increase cost and decrease results.

I simply don't think earmarks are the problem, they are but a symptom. I hope Jay or Joe or Shelley can secure an earmark to finish Route 35. It should be discussed in committee, there should be debate. It should be transparent. The people should know what projects their money is to be spent on and the people elected to govern should have some say over how taxpayer dollars are spent.

Our Senators and our Representatives are accountable to the citizens of West Virginia. They know what projects are important to West Virginians and to our economy. Some overpaid, hand-selected political crony does not.


Earmarks are a part of the problem, not all of it, but a part. There should be no earmarks at all. Each and every spending issue should come before congress in bill form, be debated, and win or loose on an up or down vote. As far as route 35 or Corridor H goes neither should be built if earmarks are required to get the job done.

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Post by Aaron Wed Nov 10, 2010 11:44 am

Tell me Stephanie, if our Senators know what is best for the citizenry, why couldn't Mike Hall, Karen Facemyer or any other representatives get a meeting with Bob Byrd? Both personally told me they tried and tried-Hall said he thought he could have gotten an audiance with the pope easier-but were never successful. If Byrd and Rockefeller know what is best, why is Route 35 becoming a toll road?

What I think is you oppose earmarks and see them for as much of the problem as other conservatives do but based on Senator Paul's answer, you've slightly adjusted your opinion.

Whether you like it or not, the individuals in Washington should not be making these type of spending decisions. That should be left up to the state with political cronies being a completely different issue.
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Post by Stephanie Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:34 pm

Aaron,

IMHO Bob Byrd was nowhere in the ball park of competent the last couple of years of his life, perhaps more. I am of the opinion his staff sheltered him and that is likely why Senator Hall (excellent gubanatorial candidate imho) was unable to set up a meeting with him.

I changed my opinion about earmarks a long time ago, and if your memory was as good as I had thought it was, you'd recall it was Congressman Ron Paul that changed it. Give me a bit and I'll locate a quote or two for you.


btw........I didn't say they "know best". I said they know what is important to the citizens. I also said they are accountable to the citizens. I think ole Jay's days in the Senate may be numbered. He is utterly unresponsive to the needs and desires of the citizens and the citizens are beginning to take notice. In addition, I've heard a LOT of speculation regarding Senator Rockefeller's fitness to hold his office. In fact, I've heard a specific rumor on numerous occasions from a variety of sources that I will not repeat because I don't like spreading rumors and have seen no conrete proof.
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Post by Stephanie Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:42 pm

Aaron,

This is not the original discussion, but it's what I found first and it does rather nicely.

Something I want to make sure you, and everyone else, is clear on, earmarks to not increase the amount of a bill. They do not increase spending. What they do is specify where and how a portion of the funds about to be dispersed are spent.

Rep. Ron Paul Defends His Earmarks in Spending Bill
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Post by SheikBen Wed Nov 10, 2010 2:09 pm

But Aaron I think you are missing the point. If, in open debate on the Transportation Committee, it is decided that such an interstate is in the best interest of the country (which I highly doubt it was), that is quite different than a high ranking Republican/Democrat quietly putting it in and shoving it through without sunshine, the best disinfectant known.

As for the Rte 35 toll, is that a sure thing? I will be morbidly curious about it. Might drive down there just to see how such a thing will operate.

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Post by Aaron Wed Nov 10, 2010 2:47 pm

Stephanie-

I've read Representative Paul's justification on spending of earmarks. I found it shady then, I find it shady now. IMHO, what Rep. Paul said was a cop-out for not taking a firm stand against earmarks. As noted in the interview, it's easy to vote against a spending bill knowing it will pass and then you get to determine how the money is spent afterwards.

The constitution calls for Congress to “pay the debts.” If that means that it gets to the point that Coingress must micro-manage how and where every federal dollar is spent, then I submit they should not be federal spending in the first place. That should be the responsibility of the state and the revenue should come from the state as well. As I said then, I agree with a great deal of what Rep Paul says. This is not one of them.

And yes, earmarks do raise bills because Representatives and Senators discuss in and out of committee, they make deals and in the end, when it is time for appropriations, that committee knows how much to allocate to each bill based on how Representatives are going to dole out pork money for projects that should not be financed by the federal government, such as new buses for Galveston.

All one has to do to see the truth is see how Nick Jo Rahall got rich using earmarks. It's the single most corrupt practice in Washington and should end immediately.

You can be naive and choose to think otherwise if you wish, I don't.

Mike-

I agree it should be talked about in a committee bill. And if the entire committee feels it is something that needs funding, then propose the funding for it THERE and allow the full house to vote on it. What it should not be is discussed so backdoor deals can be made and then have extra money placed in a bill so a Congressional Representative dictate where the money then goes.
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Post by Stephanie Wed Nov 10, 2010 3:32 pm

Aaron, you're missing the point entirely.

Neither Congressman Paul nor Senator Paul have ever said anything to indicate they support or condone backdoor deals, or anything secretive. Instead they are saying they want it all layed out in committees so that the money is appropriated and spent wisely. I don't know how this could be made any more clear for you.

If the money was just handed over to the states there is absolutely nothing that would prevent state officials, elected or appointed, from building bridges to nowhere or otherwise just pissing the money away.

Aside from that, there are areas of the federal budget that is not delivered to the states. Are you telling me that you don't believe the Pentagon wastes billions? Congress controls the purse strings. That control is meaningless if the only thing they can do is write a series of blank checks.

There have been a number of issues that I have disagreed with Congressman Paul over. The best example I can think of is his desire to abolish the federal income tax. I was a long time proponent of the federal income tax. It took several years and a lot of explanation by not only Ron Paul but others for me to understand that, once again, Ron Paul is correct and I was wrong but it finally happened this summer. A friend named John Wellborn took the time to explain everything to me and answer all of my questions and point me in the direction of the information I required to be convinced.

When Ron Paul speaks, I listen. When I disagree, I research. The man is just right nearly all the time, if not all the time, on pretty much every subject. I'm serious, he is almost always correct. He's not only really intelligent, he has spent his 70+ years very wisely and is a very well educated man in a variety of fields. He's smarter than me. He knows a whole lot more than me. He has earned not only my respect, but a good deal of my trust. IMHO, he is absolutely correct about earmarks. EVERYTHING should be an earmark.
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Post by ohio county Wed Nov 10, 2010 3:44 pm

While I cannot support my friend in her willingness to accept earmarks as a budgetary practice, I have some sympathy for Sen.-elect Paul's explanation that "there are earmarks and then there are earmarks".

In 1974 I had the privilege of sitting in the DOH administrator's office (a gentleman whose name escapes me) while he explained to my Legislator that Tyler County's Bridgeway Bridge was certainly in need of repair but there were bridges (and he named some of them) that required school bus drivers to park before crossing the bridge, discharging the students who walked across, crossing the bridge, and then re-boarding the students on the other side.

In 1976 (as I recall) Arch Moore came to the Tyler County Lincoln Day Dinner and announced that he had secured funds to replace the Bridgeway Bridge. It made me wonder about all those bridges where school kids had to walk across... The people in Bridgeway specifically and Tyler County, generally, were going to vote for Arch Moore anyway. He was running for U.S. Senate, as I recall.

To me, earmarking changes the order of bridge construction and can actually add bridges that end "nowhere". Do I think government does anything well? No, but I don't want politicians scheduling bridge replacements either...

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Post by Aaron Wed Nov 10, 2010 3:48 pm

I'm not missing the point on anything Stephanie. I read the interview and I know what he said about earmarking everything. Despite that fact that you believe he walks on water, I happen to disagree with Representative Paul on this one.

Regarding spending, I never said Congress should write a blank check. I have no problem with members of Congress discussing how money is to be spent, especially in committee. I have no problem with Congress requiring budgets from where they dole out money and expecting each budget to be followed. Heck, I have no problem with Congress refusing to fund an agency such as the Pentagon beyond mandatory spending if they are wasteful and fraudulent.

If anything, that is exactly what Congress should be doing. They should require every agency, every state and any other organization that receives federal dollars to prepare a budget based on need, submit it to the appropriate Committee, the committee to make a recommendation and then the full house vote on each recommendation.

And by that I mean that the Pentagon submits a budget that is based on review of military leaders down the chain that dictates where money is spent through a budgetary process.

What I don't agree with is that 536 people have the knowledge, expertise and experience to dictate to the penny how $14,000,000,000,000.00 is to be spent regardless of how smart they are, how well they have spent their years or how much education they have. It simply cannot be done and for anyone to expect that is sheer lunacy.




Last edited by Aaron on Wed Nov 10, 2010 3:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
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