Is the VSC Commission a bunch of Greenies?

ziggy wrote:

Aaron wrote:

ziggy wrote:So are you still telling us that I have not brought some of my concerns about strip mining generally and MTR and valley fills specifically to these forums?

Sure you have.

Well then quit saying that I haven't, and I'll quit saying you are a liar about it.

LOL, that's like the Mrs. saying you never tell her she's pretty and your respond with "You're PRETTY f^%King dumb and you're PRETTY f^%King ugly and you're PRETTY much a f^%King pain in my ass" or something along those lines.

The ONLY time you complain about the ills of any type of mining is to lead into a tirade against the coal company. PERIOD.

Now you can selectivly edit this post to make it look like I'm agreeing with you if you want, but all that does is show just HOW deceiftful you PRETTY much are!!!

Where's the MTR site Frank?

Your photo shows only about a quarter section semi-circle around the school.

I am trying to find the photo I posted earlier, and another photo showing both the Edwight surface mine and the school in the same photograph. But that web site is not working. I will try later.

The e-mail accompanying the photo said that it was "taken yesterday after a large blast was executed at what we believe to be the Edwight surface mine."

And the photo itself had a caption with further information, including the photographer's name. But the link to the photo and other related MTR photos is not working. That photo was taken more than a year ago. That web site may no longer be in existence- although it was working when I reposted that picture here a couple months ago.

You asked me why I waited more than a thousand something or others to tell the forum about growong up in Kanawha County's coal region. Why did you wait a year to decide to talk about where that surface mining blast could have originated? Back then all you wanted to do was attack the photographer and the group's web site that posted the picture. Why are you only now getting serious about the mining and the dust and the school? Because you now find yourself in a corner with your phony allegation that I never brought strip mining and MTR concerns to this forum?

The ONLY time you complain about the ills of any type of mining is to lead into a tirade against the coal company. PERIOD.

That is not correct. For years here I have consistently complained that corrupt public officials allow the coal companies to do pretty much as they want to- the law be damned.

And I have even posted a couple drafts of proposed election finance legislation to help reform some of that. By your attack even that as "trying to silence Don Blankenship", or some similar language indicating your defense of the continued bribery of public officials by Massey's CEO.

ziggy wrote:

Where's the MTR site Frank?

Your photo shows only about a quarter section semi-circle around the school.

I am trying to find the photo I posted earlier, and another photo showing both the Edwight surface mine and the school in the same photograph. But that web site is not working. I will try later.

The e-mail accompanying the photo said that it was "taken yesterday after a large blast was executed at what we believe to be the Edwight surface mine."

And the photo itself had a caption with further information, including the photographer's name. But the link to the photo and other related MTR photos is not working. That photo was taken more than a year ago. That web site may no longer be in existence- although it was working when I reposted that picture here a couple months ago.

You asked me why I waited more than a thousand something or others to tell the forum about growong up in Kanawha County's coal region. Why did you wait a year to decide to talk about where that surface mining blast could have originated? Back then all you wanted to do was attack the photographer and the group's web site that posted the picture. Why are you only now getting serious about the mining and the dust and the school? Because you now find yourself in a corner with your phony allegation that I never brought strip mining and MTR concerns to this forum?

Back then Frank you said the cause of the dust was the coal preparation plant located in next to the school. You said nothing about a blast from mountain top mining.

So why are you changing your story now Frank?

The ONLY time you complain about the ills of any type of mining is to lead into a tirade against the coal company.

So if not the coal companies, then who or what is striping away the trees and the soil and in some instances whole mountaintops and shoving them into valleys- causing more flooding and increased flooding and mudslides and downstream destruction of homes and business from increased rainwater runoff, and selenium discharge levels in streams at several times the legal level at the Hobet strip mine, and ruined home water supplies, and- -well, you get the picture? Or is God doing that all by hisself- as the company lawyers try to contend when the coal companies get sued for damages?

Aaron wrote:

ziggy wrote:

Where's the MTR site Frank?

Your photo shows only about a quarter section semi-circle around the school.

I am trying to find the photo I posted earlier, and another photo showing both the Edwight surface mine and the school in the same photograph. But that web site is not working. I will try later.

The e-mail accompanying the photo said that it was "taken yesterday after a large blast was executed at what we believe to be the Edwight surface mine."

And the photo itself had a caption with further information, including the photographer's name. But the link to the photo and other related MTR photos is not working. That photo was taken more than a year ago. That web site may no longer be in existence- although it was working when I reposted that picture here a couple months ago.

You asked me why I waited more than a thousand something or others to tell the forum about growong up in Kanawha County's coal region. Why did you wait a year to decide to talk about where that surface mining blast could have originated? Back then all you wanted to do was attack the photographer and the group's web site that posted the picture. Why are you only now getting serious about the mining and the dust and the school? Because you now find yourself in a corner with your phony allegation that I never brought strip mining and MTR concerns to this forum?

Back then Frank you said the cause of the dust was the coal preparation plant located in next to the school. You said nothing about a blast from mountain top mining.

So why are you changing your story now Frank?

I am not changing anything.

Yes, we had a discussion about coal prep plant dust at the school- more than one such discussion, as I recall- including back in March 2007 when some good folks got arrested at the governor's office for demanding a new, clean school at March Fork.

But the April 17th 2007 photograph caption indicated that the dust in that particular photo was from a nearby MTR blast. I am not changing anything. But it tells us a lot that you are trying to change something.

Whether the dust comes from a coal prep plant or a MTR blast, it is still dirt, right? Or is it that if it comes from a coal mining related activity that it isn't really dirt at all- but just gold dust to be cherished and breathed and wallowed in with relish?

It seems your CRMW websight isn't working so I went to google maps and had a look Frank. The name of the mine is Edwight mountaintop removal mine. I was wrong, there is/was MTM going on south of the school.

As for the picture you're either mistaken or being purposefully deceitful. You posted a picture with no caption and you said the dust was settlement from the coal prep plant.

I pointed out that when you stand between the dust and sun, the amount of dust looks worse then it acually it. Anyone that's ever seen a sun beam through a window knows that.

I also stated the dust very well could have came from someone spinning thier tire in the dirt road. You do see where someone has spun thier tires, don't you Frank?

You posted this very picture and wondered why Sam and I found it questionable.

Ziggy,

I have learned to let it all roll off me like water off a duck's back. When I disagree with Aaron I'm an isolationist, or socialist or who knows what. When I disagree with Sam it's because I'm an illogical female who is a slave to emotion. They use the similar tactics with you when you don't agree with them.

I'm opposed to MTR and strip mining. I favor responsible coal....mining, transporting, burning....the works. I just call them like I see them. Our government need to do a better job or regulating and the coal companies have a long way to go in being better neighbors and employers. Many environmentalists just need to be more reasonable.

Stephanie,

I must respectfully disagree with you. I have callled you a lot of things, some of them I should probably apologize for, but I can in all honesty say I do not believe I have ever called you a socialist.

Now look at the picture I posted and tell me, one, where the caption is and B) Do you see the tracks where the tires spun out, and finally, does it not appear that the picture was taken with the dust between the viewfinder and the sun, which would make it appear worse?

That is the same picture Frank posted last year.

Honestly Aaron I don't see the tire tracks. You're complaining about the angle of the picture....its relationship to the sun. Well if it weren't for the sunlight you wouldnt see the dust, that wouldn't mean the dust wasn't there.

Also, if this is the same pic Ziggy posted, it must be cropped, or my memory is getting worse. (A distinct possibility) I thought the original showed a greater area and more of the road.

Have you called me a socialist? I'm not sure. You've called me worse. lol

Stephanine, this is the exact same picture Frank posted. I took it off the Coal River Mountain Watch websitt. For some reason that site is down but I backdoored into it somehow and that is how I got the picture.

If you can't move the bottom scroll bar all the way to the right and see the tire tracks or where something has spun out in the dirt, then there is an eye doctor in Eleanore by the name of French Eye Care. They do pretty good work although I don't know expensive they are as my insurance paid most of Donnie's. He liked her.

And like I said, I probably should apologize for some of the things I've called you. But I've already admitted an error of my ways once on this thread. Two might crash the homepage.

Anbd of course that is a two way street.

I saved the picture to my pc to view the entire thing. Maybe it's my settings but I couldn't see the entire picture.

I do see tire tracks. You can't tell how old they are, or how deep they are and they certainly don't explain all the dust in that photograh.

BTW.......They French is a nimrod. He is a guy and I took Kate to him last year, never again. We're currently shopping around for a new eye doctor. If there is a woman he is associated with, I haven't met her.

The only one I know of is Vivian. I assumed that was who was in Elanore. I guess I was wrong.

I can't remember his first name. Very young and very unusual. We have a vision plan with a $20 copay. I was livid.....he charged me a $110 "fitting fee" because she wears contacts in addition to the copay. That's bull. She's been wearing them since she was 12 and didn't need a "fitting". That fee is too high for that service anyway.

To make matters worse, he flat out refused to prescribe the brand she has always worn. We bought his brand but she has never been comfortable with them. He refused to write a new rx for her old brand, or any other for that matter.

So, it's been a year and I'm shopping around. I'm actually thinking of waiting until July when we're tentatively scheduled to go home. I'd like our doctor from RI to see us both then.

Aaron wrote:
Now look at the picture I posted and tell me, one, where the caption is and B) Do you see the tracks where the tires spun out, and finally, does it not appear that the picture was taken with the dust between the viewfinder and the sun, which would make it appear worse?

That is the same picture Frank posted last year.

That is not the picture I posted last year, Aaron- at least not the entire picture- if it is at all. The picture I posted last year was a longer shot, with the schoolhouse near the middle, and a ball filed on the right, as I recall. And, like Stephanie, I don't see any tire tracks in your picture, nor the schoolhouse, nor the ball fields.

The picture I posted last year had a caption with the photographers name, along with the date and time of the photograph, and a short explanation of what was being depicted. At the lower right corner were some what appeared to be tire tracks in a mudhole. What kind of car spinning its wheels how fast in a mudhole would cause a dust cloud like that hundreds of feet in the air, anyway? You are grasping at straws.

I'm not grasping anything Ziggy. You've been caught souting you're BS once again and I posted the proof. This is the picture you posted. It came from Coal River Mountain Watch. That is also the site that has a picture of a rather, shall we say, robust older gentleman getting handcuffed in an office while demanding a meeting with the governor (that's what the caption said) by capital security or police while two very attractive young ladies and several state troopers look on. Sound familar?

And if you can't see the tire tracks, perhaps you need to accompany Stephanie to RI and see her I-doc.

Aaron,

The entire picture isn't appearing for me. It simply isn't and apparently it isn't for Zig either. I saved it to my hard drive and then opened it. That's how I was able to view the whole thing.

I think it is because the CRMW website is not working. Heaven forbid they're not out of of business.

ziggy wrote:

SamCogar wrote:

ziggy wrote:
This forum and the older Gazette forums are full of concerns I have expressed about strip mining for coal, and equally full of your and Sam's retorts that I don't know what I am talking about- including both of you calling me an absolute liar when I told you some of my experieneces where I grew up in a strip mining area of Kanawha County.

Well Zigster, I have an ABSOLUTE right to call you an ABSOLUTE liar ..... because of such statements of YOURS such as noted in "red" in the following statement.

ziggy wrote:Just because you and Sam support outlaw strip mining companies and corrupt government regulation or no regulation at all does not mean that I haven't brought those concerns here. I have- many, many times. And now your demials of having seen any of it tells us more about you than we should have to know. Yes, that is pathetic.

Zigster, that was an ABSOLUTE lie on your part and you know damn well it was.

That was an ABSOLUTE lie on you part just to CYA so that you won't have to publically admit who has the ultimate responsibility and legal authority to regulate and control mining operations in West Virginia.
.

Why would I need to "CYA"? Some of us been suing the corrupt authorities who have "the ultimate responsibility and legal authority to regulate and control mining operations in West Virginia" for years- the federal and state surface mining regulatory agencies.

And you and Aaron have been right there cheering us on, right? NOT!

Or due you think the "ultimate responsibility and legal authority to regulate and control" strip mining lies somewhere else?

Ziggy, was your lack of denial concerning my accusation that you lied ...... an admission on your part that in fact you did lie?

I believe it is imperative that said is confirmed by you "in writing" .... before the subject of "your CYA'ing" is discussed any further ...... because resolution of the latter depends on the resolution of the former.

cheers

Stephanie wrote:

Ziggy wrote:Just because you and Sam support outlaw strip mining companies and corrupt government regulation or no regulation at all....

Are you calling him a liar because of the above and only for that reason? That sure as hell isn't what Aaron is doing.

Stephanie, I am not responsible for what Aaron does.

And just because Ziggy accused us both inclusively ....... should not confuse you into thinking that all of our postings are mutuall inclusive to each other relative to content and context.

SamCogar wrote:Ziggy, was your lack of denial concerning my accusation that you lied ...... an admission on your part that in fact you did lie?

No.

I believe it is imperative that said is confirmed by you "in writing" .... before the subject of "your CYA'ing" is discussed any further ...... because resolution of the latter depends on the resolution of the former.
cheers

I have confirmed it, in writing. Just read what I post. It is there.

I will be away for the balance of this weekend- returning probably Monday.

ziggy wrote:

Stephanie wrote:

Ziggy wrote:Just because you and Sam support outlaw strip mining companies and corrupt government regulation or no regulation at all....

Are you calling him a liar because of the above and only for that reason? That sure as hell isn't what Aaron is doing.

Stephanie, Sam and Aaron have ridiculed here any and all citizen organization lawsuits designed to bring strip mining, and especially mountaintop removal and valley fills, into compliance with the applicable state and federal laws and regulations. The try to mock and scorn the "Greenies" who institute those lawsuits. Otherwise they would nor be so critical of those lawsuits which demand that law and order prevail in the coal mining industry.

I think any reasonable interpretation of such actions here is that they support the outlaw operators as well as the agencies that allow those outlaws to operate the way they do.

Ziggy, first you have to start THINKING ..... instead of lying and/or posting devious, dishonest rhetoric to support your hatred and biases of all things you disagree with.

And I will agree that you and said citizen organization have filed lawsuits against coal companies as you stated above, ..... but Zigster I question THE TRUTH of your claim made in an above post, to wit:

ziggy wrote:Why would I need to "CYA"? Some of us been suing the corrupt authorities who have "the ultimate responsibility and legal authority to regulate and control mining operations in West Virginia" for years- the federal and state surface mining regulatory agencies.

Ziggy, I have been reading the Charleston newspapers for the past 25 years .... and an active Member of these Forums (inclusive) for nigh onto 10 years, ..... and I do not remember ever reading a reference to anyone of said group "SUING CORRUPT AUTHORITIES or the AGENCIES there of for ANYTHING.

So Zig, iffen you and yours have "been suing them for years", .... you shouldn't have a problem citing a few REFERENCES to said Law suites, ..... RIGHT.

ziggy wrote:Or due you think the "ultimate responsibility and legal authority (the federal and state surface mining regulatory agencies) to regulate and control" strip mining lies somewhere else?

Zigster, that was nothing more than paraphased mimickery of what I've been accusing you of for years. And you always CYA by stating it was the coal operators fault for BRIBING the politicians not to force said agencies and personnel to enforce said statutes. Just like you did concerning those "death causing" mine inspectors.

ziggy wrote:And when I point out that coal operators give large amounts of money to politicians whose duty is is to implement the mining laws and make judgments about the applicable rules and regulations, Aaron calls that my "rant against Don Blankenship".

YUP, and that was because BOTH the bribe'er and the bribe'ee ..... ARE GUILTY, ....... but you adamently claimed that ONLY Blankenship was.

ziggy wrote:When I posted a picture of the dust swirling over March Fork Elementary school immediately after a mine blast, both Aaron and Sam- without any evidence- attacked the photographer as dishonest and the picture as a hoax, and attacked the .................

You are damn right I did Ziggy, I attacked that Post containing said picture as being a hoax and therefore dishonest. And when you Ziggy, attempted to defend said DISHONESTY ....... I attacked you for being "part n' parcel" to said dishonest action.

And Zigster, as you damn well know, the picture itself was "my evidence". As they say, "A picture is worth a thousands words", .... a THOUSAND WORDS of evidence that is, ..... and EVIDENCE that you could neither reject or discredit ...... because it was f'ing photograph.

The photograph itself WAS NOT a hoax, NOT modified, NOT a phony.

Zigster, it was yours and/or the photographer's CLAIMS of what that photo "represented" that was phony, dishonest and devious. An intetional lie by one or both of you.

So Ziggy, quit adding more insult to your character by attempting to convince Stephanie of anything concerning said. Re-post said picture with said caption and let her decide for herself.

.

Aaron wrote:Stephanie,

That is the same picture Frank posted last year.

Aaron, I only see about 1/8 of the original photo that was previously posted.

If you have it on your PC, .... do a "Save As" and resize it for "Medium Web View" and then repost it.

Ya can spin your tires but ya won't be getting any dust rising from that area in the foreground.

Drive yer car over on the blacktop and get yer tires in those "water puddles" that were just deposited by that rainstorm ..... and you can spin the hell out of your tires.

But no dust or smoke there either, ....... but fer sure a good spray of rainwater will be kicked up until the tires "drain" the puddle.

.

SamCogar wrote:

Aaron wrote:Stephanie,

That is the same picture Frank posted last year.

Aaron, I only see about 1/8 of the original photo that was previously posted.

If you have it on your PC, .... do a "Save As" and resize it for "Medium Web View" and then repost it.

I don't have it on my computer Sam.